Threshold T-200. Help me choose a preamplifier

The OP

sorry for the stupid question, what is "OP"? How does this abbreviation stand for? :)

HOORAY!!! Finally, my long-awaited amplifier has arrived !!!!! I’m so happy! I haven’t connected it yet. It is cold in Russia now, and the amplifier arrived very cold. Let it stay for a day. But my hands are already itching to connect! :)

Now I’m looking at it, reading the back of the amplifier and I have questions. How can I connect it to the speaker system?
I have a Diatone DS-90C acoustic system, this speaker system has the ability to connect via the Bi-wiring system. I have a Kimber 12 cable. On the acoustics side, I divided this cable into 4 parts and connect it to the acoustic system using the biwiring system. But on the amplifier side, I divided this cable into only two parts, because in my old amplifier, although it also has the ability to connect two speaker systems, but not through the biwiring system.
This amplifier also has four pairs of terminals. But there is also the inscription "bi-wiring". That is why I had a question. Regardless of any inscriptions, simply plug the existing two halves of the cable into the terminals (but then the question is: into which ones? those that are closer to the center of the amplifier, or those that are closer to the edges of the amplifier?). Or should I split the end of the cable that should connect to the amplifier into four pieces and connect to all four terminals on each side?

By the way, both preamplifiers came to me a month ago. And I still haven't unpacked them. :) Tomorrow I will have a holiday comparable to Christmas or a birthday. :)

NT-505 RCA → Tube preamp → Threshold amp (RCA input) - no sound
NT-505 XLR → Jeff Rowland balanced preamp → Threshold amp (XLR input) - sound
NT-505 XLR → Jeff Rowland balanced preamp → Threshold amplifier (RCA input) - there is sound. WHY THERE IS SOUND? :)))

Friends, I am facing the following problem: As you know, I bought one balanced Jaff Rowland Capri preamplifier, the second preamplifier is a homemade Japanese tube preamplifier. The switching is as follows: from the Teac NT-505 via an XLR cable to the Jeff Rowland preamp, from the preamp via an XLR cable to the Threshold Amplifier. Further. From NT-505 via RCA cable to homemade tube preamp, from tube preamp via RCA cable to Threshold Amplifier. Checking connections: turned on the XLR on the NT-505, on the Threshold amplifier, the switches are in the XLR position. Everything plays great. I turned on RCA on the NT-505, on the Threshold amplifier I switched the toggle switches to the RCA position. Does not play.

At first I thought the tube amp was the problem. He’s new. I did not disassemble it, perhaps something was messed up with the switching. 
Then I did the following: I turned on the NT-505 so that the sound went through the XLR output, and on the Threshold amplifier I turned on the toggle switches in the RCA position. And you will not believe, the sound appeared .... I do not understand what is happening. Amplifier broken?
It turns out like this: the signal goes from the DAC via an XLR cable to the Jeff Rowland preamplifier, from the preamp via an XLR cable to the Threshold amplifier, but at the same time, the toggle switches on the Threshold amplifier are switched to the RCA position, i.e. signal reception should be RCA, but the sound still goes. I don’t understand what’s going on and how do I get the sound to only go over the RCA cable through the tube amp....

I don’t quite understand your question... Both XLR and RCA cables are now plugged into the Threshold amplifier. I want to make it so that you can listen to both XLR and RCA by switching the toggle switches on the amplifier. From different preamplifiers. 
Now this is a one-time connection:
NT-505 RCA → Tube Preamplifier → Threshold Amplifier (RCA input)
NT-505 XLR → Balanced Preamp Jeff Rowland → Threshold Amp (XLR input)

Yes. When switching to XLR or RCA in the settings of the Teac NT-505, I changed these parameters.

 

NT-505 XLR → Jeff Rowland balanced preamp → Threshold amplifier (RCA input) - there is sound - This connection worries me a lot.

Yesterday I managed to make the sound appear.
I don't know what I did, but the preamp worked. I despaired, disconnected the preamplifier from the system, and took it apart. I decided that the Japanese master did not solder any cable, or the cable fell off during transportation. I checked all the cables from the power supply to the lamps, once I even got a shock. :) Apparently, the capacitors were discharged about me. :) But after I moved all the wires and connected the preamplifier, the sound started, but it was very terrible. I left it on all night, I'll check the quality tonight. I will be very upset if the sound does not improve.

@big_greg , You wrote: "(2 options depending on pins)". Which option should I choose? I have an XLR connection to a Jeff Rowland Capri preamp, and from there to a Threshold T-200 amplifier. I can’t find information anywhere on these two devices, which pin is their phase.

The system worked without interruption for two days. The sound hasn't improved.

Yahoo auction. There is a "deferred bid" which is triggered 5 minutes before the end of trading. I followed this amp for 6 days and half an hour before the end of the auction, the price was still around $ 1100. I decided to place a bet.  And the service informed me that my rate is lower than the one that has already been offered. Apparently, someone made this deferred bet. I bet $ 1,200, but it was also below that deferred bet. Then I started wondering how much my appponent had bet ... :) I started raising my bet, 1300, 1400, 1500, 1800, 2000 dollars - your bet is accepted. :) I think this is a very high price for this amplifier. But no one else put more than $ 2000 ... So I became the owner of Threshold for $ 2300 (another $ 300 - delivery to Moscow). Something like this. :)

For many days of choosing and searching for a preamplifier, I have compiled the following list: Pass Labs x1 Pass Labs x2.5 Threshold T2 Threshold T3 These four preamps are in priority. But I have not yet found an inexpensive device from the above-mentioned list. They all cost from 3 thousand dollars.

Sorry, my english is bad. :) Are you not sure about what? :)

Please tell us which tube preamps do you use? The point is that I have always believed that it is best to use a tube preamplifier with a transistor amplifier. With it, the sound will be alive. However, colleagues on other forums convince me that it is necessary to take exactly something from these preamplifiers, which I have given above. All this is expensive, and I do not have the opportunity to first buy Pass Labs, and then buy, for example, Audio research tube. Therefore, you need to choose now.

@Laaudionut,  And what musical preamplifiers do you think? As I wrote above, I do not have the opportunity to buy many preamps and compare them, so I would like to buy one, but one that will work perfectly with my new Threshold T-200.

  I use Aric Audio preamps. The Unlimited in my secondary system,and The Motherlode II in my main system.

Wow! These are very expensive preamps. I've met Aric Audio on ebay occasionally, they cost $ 10k. :) For me, this is absolutely not real money. :) Although, maybe I'm confusing something. I will put these preamplifiers in the search, I will follow them.

Just to clarify, I don't build any preamplifiers that cost over $5K, I'm not sure where the $10K comes from....

O! Good day, Aric, and good mood! I didn't mean to offend you, forgive me if this happened! I thought it was a company, I didn't expect it to be one person. :) I recently saw an Aric Audio preamplifier on ebay and it cost 11 thousand dollars. :) For some reason I can't find a link to this amplifier now. But if I meet, I will definitely post it here. :)

@luxmancl38,  Thank you for the extended story. Probably, if I knew that this amplifier was not designed by Nelson Pass, then I probably would not hunt for it like that. :) But, already, what has been done is done.

For preamp choice, if you intend to use balanced inputs of the Threshold T-200, be caution of its 2kΩ input impedance!

Best to choose a preamp with balanced output impedance 100Ω or less.

@imhififan,  I do not completely understand what you are talking about. More precisely, I understand individual words, but I do not grasp the meaning in these numbers. If the preamp on the balanced outputs is greater than 100 ohms, what happens? In other words, I need to understand what the consequences will be if I choose the wrong preamp.

Then the question is: what is the output impedance of Pass Labs X2.5? Because this is the only preamp I can afford on my $ 2000 budget. :)

@jnovak ,  You scared me! Now I definitely won't buy Threshold T-2. 

Before you begin compile any list you should ensure that every pre on it is capable of driving that input impedance to full effect. This will probably weed out 90% of the market for starters.

I have already made my choice. I will be taking Pass Labs X2.5 or Pass Labs X1. Most likely the first one, because the second one costs much higher than my budget, and the seller does not want to give up in price, therefore, if I don’t persuade, then in 1-2 days I will buy Pass Labs X2.5 in Japan.

Part of the expense that went into that Pass pre was for it's balanced circuitry, which won't be a good match into your Threshold amp.

Did you say Pass Labs is not good for my Threshold? "which won't be a good" - can you say "not good"? Did I get it right? Did you say that because Threshold has a resistance of about 1 kΩ, and the output impedance at the Pass Labs balanced outputs is 0.35 kΩ? Did I understand everything correctly? That is, I need to look for a preamplifier with an output impedance of no more than 50 ohms on balanced outputs? A respected colleague in this topic wrote a little higher that the output impedance of the preamplifier should be 20 times lower than the input impedance of the amplifier. That is, if the input impedance of the amplifier is 926 ohms, then the output impedance of the preamplifier = 926/20 = 46 ohms. Fifty ohms is very little ... I hardly ever find such a preamplifier ...
If I painted everything correctly, then a tragedy awaits me. What kind of preamp should I get?

@rbaker ,  I saw your message. Thanks for the tip. But I just looked at the ModWright website, the LS 100 model has balanced inputs, but the output impedance of these inputs is 300 ohms.

@unsound , O!! thanks!!! now I understand the phrase of the respected Laaudionut.)))

@laaudionut, forgive me if I may sound harsh, I don’t know much English. ))
I’m not obsessed with the Pass Labs brand. I’m fixated on the balanced amplifier inputs. I had a Hegel amplifier a long time ago, and it sounded better through the balanced inputs. I checked. not much better, but better.
understand correctly, I have only 2000 dollars ... :)) In Russia there is a saying: eat a fish and not choke on a bone.)) So I want a preamplifier with a balanced sound output circuit, and not exceed my budget. ))

There is one question I don't understand: Threshold T-2 was designed specifically for T-series amplifiers, and the specification for this preamplifier says that the impedance at the balanced output is 150 ohms. It turns out that the engineers have made two devices incompatible with each other? It doesn't look right…

I have been looking for a balanced amplifier with a low output impedance for half a day today. So far I've only found Black Ice F360. And in the specification for this preamplifier, the impedance is specified as 100 ohms.

found another preamplifier with an output impedance of 68 ohms: Chord CPA 3200.

@unsound ,  Sorry, that's not what I meant ... I asked a rhetorical question: are Japanese technologies better than American ones? I do not know the answer to this question. :) I didn't have any American amplifiers or American cars. :)

but perhaps you should sell the Threshold and consider other options?

I can not do it.
You cannot imagine how difficult it is to get good equipment in Russia for not big money. As you can see from my description of my system, I brought almost everything from Japan. But I want to hear a really American sound. I hunted for Threshold T-800D for more than a year, but I could not find it for relatively reasonable money, in Russia these amplifiers are already all from collectors and are not on sale. And it is almost impossible to bring such heavy equipment from America.
And the fact that I came across this Threshold T-200 for $ 2300 at an auction in Japan - I think it’s a very big luck. This amplifier will float to me for 2 months. I have a lot of time. And thanks to you and this forum, I learned a lot about the Threshold brand, about the engineer who made this amplifier, and what a preamp should be like for it. I think, with your help, I will make the right choice, and my system will play magically.

I am very grateful to you all for your help! And I sincerely hope that you will continue to help me with the choice.

This is not rude, I wrote? :) It seems to me that I can make a lexicon mistake and inadvertently offend someone. :)

@unsound ,  now have a Yamaha A2000. Graduated in 1979. He is 42 years old - the same as me. :)) Was under repair 1 time, and then only because he has thermoset terminals, which once just crumbled in my hands when I tightened the cable tightly in them. The specialist replaced these terminals with modern ones and checked all the transistors, resistors, capacitors, etc., and said that everything is in a state close to ideal. Isn't Japanese technology already more durable than American one? :) I really, really want to hear the American sound. None of my acquaintances have an old-era American amplifier. Except for Mcintosh.

@unsound , I have the following system now:
Speaker system: Diatone DS-90C (I hunted them for over a year. Won at an auction in Japan.)
Integrated amplifier: Yamaha A2000 (an excellent amplifier, but it does not reach the level of detail to the Hegel amplifier I had before, however, in the low-frequency range Yamaha is a cut above the Hegel).
Sound source: computer (this is temporary, because I recently bought a Teac NT-505 streamer, it is still sailing to me from Japan).
DAC: Teac UD-501 (a good DAC that served me faithfully for a long time until Windows 10 came out, on Windows 10 the drivers from the UD-501 get up very clumsily, which is why it was decided to change it ...)
Second sound source: Micro DD-8 turntable (excellent turntable, which I got in perfect condition, I also won it at an auction in Japan).
Media player: Dune HD Duo 4K (a new media player from this company has already been released, but I’m not in a hurry to change it yet).
So, Teac UD-501 (and in the future Teac NT-505) and Dune HD Duo 4K have balanced outputs. It is for this reason that I want to build a balance system.

Mark Levinson 380S
Mark Levinson No.38SL
All of them : Output impedance: less than 6 Ohm...
Haven’t I already found what I need so quickly? :) 
And at the Japanese auction they are still worth less than $ 1,500. I think by the end of the auction the price will rise to 2300 dollars, but I can survive it. What do you think, dear friends, should I buy one of these preamplifiers?

Mark Levinson 380S
Mark Levinson No.38SL
All of them : Output impedance: less than 6 Ohm...
Mark Levinson No.326S -  Output impedance: less than 50 Ohm...
Haven’t I already found what I need so quickly? :)
And at the Japanese auction they are still worth less than $ 1,500. I think by the end of the auction the price will rise to 2300 dollars, but I can survive it. What do you think, dear friends, should I buy one of these preamplifiers?

I give up ... All preamplifiers that are on the secondary market in Russia have an output impedance of 150 Ohm ....

Please advise a good preamplifier that can reveal all the charm of my amplifier, not XLR. With conventional unbalanced inputs, but preferably with a phono stage.

Aric Audio is a great preamp, but I can't afford it. )) although I spoke with Aric - he is a good person. he kindly explained everything to me.

The bewitch sn3008 tube preamp has an output impedance of 10 ohm’s, they might be available in Russia.

but this is a chinese preamp ... i don't want a chinese amp. I still do not trust the quality of China, even though all brands have moved their production to China ...

Chord CPA 3200 - 68 Ohm. can you say something about this device?

@unsound , are all the preamplifiers I have given - is it a microprocessor type? I’m a little confused in terms, so I can say stupid, but I’d rather ask: does this mean that they work in class D? Not class A like Pass Labs preamps?

@yyzsantabarbara , Thanks for your concern and for the link. But $ 4,800 is 2.5 times my budget. :) I can still collect 2000 - 2500 dollars, but 5 thousand dollars with delivery is too much for me.

Good evening and good mood to all forum participants! :)
I want to express my deep gratitude for your help and advice in choosing a preamplifier!
Today I won a Jeff Rowland CAPRI S preamp at auction. It will be $ 1650 shipping! Below my budget! I'm so happy! I read some of the reviews, this preamp is very well received and described as "transparent". And I liked the fact that a phono stage for it exists in nature, maybe I'll be lucky and I'll find it. :) Or I will find a diagram of this board and the specialists will make it. Therefore, I think I am lucky today. :) Now it remains to wait 1.5 months, and all this will come to me! :))

@unsound , Sorry, but I didn't know that ... Now it started to bother me. What could go wrong?

Clarifications: I have rechecked many preamps in my price range and were looking for those with less than 100 ohms balanced output impedance. I made a list. And this preamplifier from Jeff Rowland made it to this list. It has an output impedance of 80 ohms. And I decided that if I won this preamplifier, I would try both XLR and RCA connections, and compare. In addition, this preamplifier is extremely rare in my country, few people know about it. If I fail to make friends with him, then I can sell him for 1800-2000 dollars and at the same time I will be in profit.

So glad to hear you found a preamp.  One thing I've found,is the chase is almost as much fun as the purchase.  There is so much to learn in the research.  The down side is getting addicted to the chase.  Enjoy the music!

Thank you zap kind words! :) My nervous system calmed down a bit. :) Money spent. All that remains is to wait for all this to come to me. Run the test track for the first time, on which I test all the equipment, and listen. If the sound is impressive for the first time, the timpani will give goosebumps, which means that everything is fine, the money was well spent.

@unsound ,Thank you very much! Ay calmed me down!)))
The English language is extremely poor in the expression of emotions)) Or I know it very poorly. )) I want to express my deep respect and gratitude to you personally for your help and support. ))