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Thoughts about these forums

I would like to make a few comments. I have been away from Audiogon for quite a while now and thank all of you who have so warmly welcomed me back.
My absence has been two fold. First my health has made it difficult to be involved on a daily basis. Secondly and far more importantly is a philosophical view of how we use this site.
Over the years a number of us “older” members have had the opportunity to share, grow and learn as audiophiles, as people who enjoy music, as people who share a passion for a hobby and in our communication abilities. I applaud all of us for how far we have come over these past six years, and the incredible knowledge base shared here at the best audio web site on the planet. I also must thank Arnie (founder of A’gon) for his passion and concern for making this work. We once had to shut this site down as the threads lost their direction and purpose, but Arnie stood up and asked twelve members to help rebuild this site with a stronger wiser vision. Many hours have been spent by a large number of people trying to make this the great site it is.
So… so my point. Please let us try to remember what we (some of us) are trying to achieve here at Audiogon. What is the purpose of these threads? For me it’s education and sharing of a passion with other audio people. For me personally I enjoy sharing the experiments in tweaking, this is what I have become known best for. My purpose is education and sharing of experience. I love having constructive conversations with knowledgeable informed and educated people who can push my thinking forward and expand my knowledge through other people’s experiences. I enjoy people who put the effort into learning, pushing the norm to a new level, always trying to improve on the systems and musical qualities our systems present. Constructive discussions with people who have credible experiences are great.
What I dislike about this forum and have always struggled with is the comments made flippantly by people who have no known foundation from which they speak. These people as not educating, they are not growing and they are not enjoyable. They simply live here, under rocks waiting for the opportunity to make comments detrimental to the discussion going on, or they are unhappy people who wish to drag down our enjoyment. Many of these trolls left when the site was shut down and the forums required monitoring, but it is not possible to eliminate them completely, nor would it make an interesting site without all views.
I guess what I’m asking is that those who have nothing constructive to offer, to please leave your keyboards alone. There are plenty of threads available where people are simply chatting and not actually intending to learn. But if there are threads that are exploring ideas with knowledgeable and educated experienced people, leave it alone. We do not need your flippant off color remarks. I hope those of us who want to share and learn can have the respect to be allowed that right. The other option, which I have resorted to is private emails. These are great, but input is limited and thus my opportunity to learn is limited, as is yours.
Do you understand? Please allow truly constructive threads to be just that, Constructive. I am back to try one more time to share my ideas and knowledge and to gleam more wisdom from so many old friends, I just thought I’d ask for the respect we deserve and ask the trolls to leave the educational; threads alone. There are so few truly constructive threads at any one time; we can not afford to lose the momentum of the truly good discussions. There are tons of threads where trolls and the ill informed can do there work.
Just my thoughts as I return to Audiogon, and begin to see the old behavior creep into the couple of places I’m talking right now.

Thanks for your respect
J.D.
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Showing 3 responses by jadem6

jadem6's avatar
jadem6 OP
1,074 posts
 
Brian, Rives, Elgordo, Bin, thank you for the warm welcome.

Jependleton, First part of your post sums up my thoughts. Your ending comment is right on, but for reasons not pertinent here, I have a hard time letting these people go.

Sonny, Again it’s all about the knowledge, and I agree this site is light years ahead of other sites and the real world. Humor is not the problem, Humor is the solution, I’m not referring to a good pock now and then, or a worthless thread for the sake of humor. (See my “Bubble Man” threads)

Jaycotoy, Entrope, Thank-you

Lugnut, Man you are special, so I’ve learned in the past couple days. If anyone needs to understand my point on this thread please read the “About Lugnut, Patrick Malone” it’s all about respect, love and kindness. It’s about kindly passing when there is nothing positive and constructive to add. Put yourself in Pat’s shoes and you will walk in mine. From this point it will be crystal clear.

Avguygeorge, I’ll bet your rating is up over 10,000 by now. As I recall you were right there with Albert with the conductor insignia. You could be a poster boy for what I’m talking about, helpful, honest, sincere and fun. Who is avs?

Kelly, I’ll try to find a place for you to join in. I too would like that.

Albert, I wish you would have written. No I wish I would have taken the time to a number of my friends here, it wasn’t your job, it was mine. I wish I would have. Thanks old friend.

Marco, I agree 99%. All I’m looking for is when a really strong, educated conversation is being played out (not an everyday experience) simply move on if you have nothing meaningful to share. A comment like “I disagree, this just shows what’s wrong with the audio industry” said nothing. A comment like “wire is wire and all of this is hype” is not constructive and damaging to a thread that is actually trying to learn from the science. It’s this type of comment that will derail a good exchange, and suddenly the entire post turns into a sward fight. Not useful and not necessary. I am not looking for censorship, people to conform to a standard or anything like that, just respect and some sort of humility.

Hack, you nailed it and as you say, you participate in topics you know. If that was simply the way we approached these forums it would work. Jeffloistarca was a bit hard to write.

Trelja, My old and good friend, thank-you for the welcome. You misunderstand me; I agree 100% with your comments. No I want freedom and lack of suppression. I too need to feel I can sat what I want, I’m just asking for respect of other and their freedom to share ideas without being sidetracked.

Mtl0425, Point taken. You also show me your understanding.

French Fries, Great moniker. You bring the point out very well. What I hope for is that those who have never experienced some product or DIY tweak not feel the need to down trod those who are sharing real experiences with the old, “those are just expensive ….that doesn’t work…” If people have no first hand knowledge, please simply read and move on. If you have first hand knowledge and you wish to share that your Bose wave radio sounds as good as… to your ears, fine. I could never argue with that. That is your impression and in your ears a fact. If a second guy felt cones under his Bose helped the focus, great, that is his experience. Now if Joe Blow comes alone, and has never owned or heard a Bose radio and states these guys a smoking something and their experiences are not possible. Well that was wrong, Joe Blow had no need to insert that comment, all it does is sidetrack the thread off into Bose vs. $70,000 system. Not on point and not constructive. It’s just simple respect. Is it not?

Mike, Thank you and yes, you got my point exactly.

Boa2, You get it.

Kana813, Your post is perfect and one of the reasons I started this thread. Improvement and growth it always good on this site. The only way for the people behind the curtain to know our thoughts is a thread that asks for…..

KP, how many pebbles and what size work best. Welcome back, let’s work at making it worth your while.

Jayctoy, Right on.

Fun to hear from all of you.
jadem6's avatar
jadem6 OP
1,074 posts
 
Hey Swamp Man,
You are one of the people on Audiogon I respect and have always felt you came here to enjoy, learn and share this great passion we all have. I conceder you a long time friend. Never in all our common posts have I not felt you approached a discussion to help, never to undermine the thread. We certainly have had silly and fun posts too, and those posts serve just as important a role here.
Sense you commented on Patrick’s thread, I think it is a good time to explain my reasons for a thread like this. For the last five years I’ve been told I have less than a year to live without a heart transplant. Living with that kind of issue over your head does something to a man. Going to sleep every night wondering if you’ll awake the next morning is a little bigger than if interconnects actually make a difference. I have learned over these years that life is very short, and it’s important to treat every person with respect and love. My faith has grown; not a religious faith, but a true knowledge that each of us are souls from the same place, and each of our souls need the help and love of each other soul. Now I apologize if I’m offending anyone by bringing these issues to an audio web site, but quite frankly a lot of you are “the love and friendship” that has helped me live this long.
My stereo and in turn my friends at Audiogon have been vital to my peace of mind. Now for me, I need to have this site remain a place of joy and peace. I just do not have the strength to battle any more; I just want to have the opportunity to share all I’ve learned with people who wish to learn. As long as we treat each other with respect and kindness, we can easily disagree. What bothers me is those who just want to pick a fight. I literally have a physical reaction to those people, thus the biggest reason I’ve been absent.
Now I have come back because I sincerely want to help people with the massive amounts I have learned.
Again please, please, please understand I do not mind differing views, I encourage it. I simply want each of us to treat each other kindly. It goes a lot further than anger and mean words. I again apologize if my need for our souls to love each other is out of place or bothers you, but this too is something I can offer and share. I have lived through a “near death” or “seeing the light” experience when I wasn’t expected to leave the hospital eight years ago at the age of 40. I have grown to understand I “came back” for a purpose. The purpose is very simple, love. We must realize how important it is to love and care for each others souls, for in fact we are all one soul when brought together in “the light”
Enough of that, I enjoy Audiogon. I would like to help. I also would like kindness. Just take a moment to walk in Patrick’s or my own shoes and I do think you will understand. Life is short, help take care of your neighbor, the love you will receive is a huge reward.
Thanks for the “bounce” speedball.

J.D.
jadem6's avatar
jadem6 OP
1,074 posts
 
Bob, great to see you. I'll email you...

Here’s the most amazing part of “our” Audiogon, as proved daily at the “About Lugnut-- Patrick Malone” thread. I have met people from every continent except Antarctica, although I tried to start a thread asking if there were any people on Antarctica checking in. I guess music on the southern continent isn’t all that important, although maybe one of us should go down there and help those folks become aware.
Anyway, people from every corner of the world are sharing a passion we all have in common. As faceless nameless individuals it’s easy to vent after a bad day by jumping on some analog guys thinking, or chastise a digital lover for their beliefs. It’s almost therapeutic to create the most cutting and painful comment, believe me, I’ve written my share.
What I’ve learned from Lugnut’s thread is it’s just as easy to share your most inner venerable feelings. It may actually be easier to share your deepest hidden thoughts here, rather than face to face with your closest friend. I know when I’ve actually seen people face to face that I met here, I’m almost embarrass because of what they might know about me.
So the point is, the people in the community of Audiogon are indeed our friends, and they contain the ability to be some of the closest people we know. Just simply follow Lugnut’s thread, you will find love and concern beyond what is available in the “real” world. It simply is not possible in the “real” world to meet as many people, and share so much with this many friends in our day to day life. We are very lucky to have this web site. That was something Arnie and the “Dirty Dozen” believed when we re-started Audiogon after a series of very stinging threads driven by a handful of angry unhappy people. We worked very hard to build something special, something above the internet norm. The audio community needs a place where you can share the audio passion with “FRIENDS”. Audio Asylum is readily available for fighting and sharpening our abilities at cutting another person to there knees.
My point is Audiogon is special and it works far better than I ever expected. My concern upon returning was seeing some of those old techniques on a few threads. I just think it’s important to understand why some of us have left this site, and what we hope to receive when we check in.
Now my vision may be a fantasy, I understand the world is not perfect, but I also know the people of the world have great potential. I believe that potential is being realized on Lugnut’s thread. Take note of it, perfection lives in that thread. It’s easy, we can have both, we can argue without pain and anger. It is possible. My hope in rejoining this incredible site is people will realize who they are arguing with, these are your friends. It should not require facing our mortality to understand this.
If we simply stay aware, each of us will have grown as humans in ways others could only dream of.
Enjoy life, enjoy family, enjoy Audiogon and enjoy your friends!
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