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  3. 1043195561

This Sistrum stuff works

Hi. I just got a bunch of Sistrum products to add to my system. The package arrived, with 2 Sistrum Speaker Platforms, 2 Sistrum Equipment Platforms, 2 sets of AudioPoints, a pair of Sonoran Plateau Desert Speaker Cables, and a pair of Sonoran Plateau Cactus RCA Interconnects.

I wanted to try an entire line of products that were designed to work together, using the unique vibration management system that the Sistrum and Sonoran products have. I thought this approach could have some merit.

I put the products into the system, 1 by 1, and listened for differences. I started with the speaker platforms. I immediately noticed that the slight "boxiness" that was present primarily in the lower midrange was almost eliminated. And the bass, and midbass was much more defined than before. Overall clarity seemed improved, but it was already quite clear to start with. One of the more interesting benefits was that I could play louder than before, with less audible distortion. Then I tried the equipment platforms under my preamp and amp. This improved the focus of the entire presentation by several percent. And again, I could play even louder before noticing any distortion occurring. The next candidate was the Audiopoints under my Teres TT. This was where I noticed an increase in detail and lowering of the noise floor. I had already used BDR cones and Cocobolo Cones under the TT, and these beat both of those quite convincingly. The final thing was the Sonoran Cables. These need some time to break in, but after about 4 hours of playing, this package is giving me the best sound that I have ever gotten from this system. The cables, even right out of the box, were quite open and detailed, with no high-frequency rolloff that I had experienced with some other cables I've tried, like Cardas Golden. After just a few hours, the bass was really showing excellent tonality and control. The mids were as open as my DIY cables, which had previously slain all comers. I expect these Sonoran cables to improve over the next couple of weeks, and that will be a nice treat, because they are already sounding quite good indeed.

Now, I have to admit that I have not tried a boatload of different cables, but I have tried a few. My cone and support situation was in need, and I didn't have a very good vibration control system in place before I got this stuff. Maybe other stuff can do very well too. But I can say that this Sistrum and Sonoran stuff does exactly what it says it does, and I am very pleased with the results that I got on my system.

In addition, I really like the appearance of these products, and that never hurts, even though my audio room looks more like a workshop than a living room. I go primarily for performance, and not looks. The sound is the key issue for me. But good looks are always a positive, if the sound is also good.

I would say that I recieved an honest 15% improvement in the clarity, tonal quality(especially in the low end), and in maximum SPL that I can now attain. Although I didn't measure it, I feel that I got an additional 3db SPL over what I was getting before. And with the improved clarity and tone at the same time. With my low power tube system, this was a very big plus, because it was like getting more power out of my amp. Sistrum claims that when you use their products, you get better efficiency from your system, including amps and speakers, due to proper vibration management. I now believe that this is true, because I experienced that in my testing with my system.

I could heartily recommend these products to others, because I feel that if they work on my system, they will work on others. The technology works. I'm happy.

While other isolation products may be very good, and also other cables may be very good, I feel that these are doing a great job, and have good neutrality, but let the sound and dynamics come through crystal clear, and from top to bottom.

This package wasn't cheap, at about $3000 retail for all the items I got. But it is not anywhere near the high price that alot of other cables and racks cost. I think it strikes a very good level of performance for a reasonable price. I can't buy $8k speaker cables, or $5k audio racks.

I'd recommend them for anyone to try out. They really do work, just as the manufacturer claims.
twl

Showing 18 responses by twl

twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Warren, I love that "microphonous meanies" reference!
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Max, from what I understand about the Audiopoints, they use a specific type of brass, and a special geometry in the cone shape that is designed to transfer resonances in a better way than just normal brass cones. I have used different cones of different materials, and read alot of copy about cones. Mostly the normal cones are working off of having a very small point of contact, to minimize vibration transfer from the floor. The Audiopoints are using a different idea, which is to transfer the resonance from the equipment to the mechanical "ground" of the floor and the earth. They may both be cone shaped, but there are differences in the shapes, and materials, and the idea is totally different from a normal cone, brass or otherwise. The design is patented, and I don't know everything about it, and the stuff I know is available from their website. However, they did work very well for me, and I have always been a proponent of "coupling" instead of isolation, especially with TTs. That was one reason that I decided on Sistrum and Audiopoints, because they have a similar philosophy on coupling and resonance transfer, as I have.
I'm not saying that there are no other good cones out there, but I am saying that these worked real well for me, and better than the other cones I used, including BDR. I also believe that using the consistent approach to vibration control all the way through the system, was a proper way to approach this problem. I don't say that everyone will want to use this, or should trash their existing stuff and rush out to buy this. But I do think that it worked for me, and if people are in the market for a set of points, equipment stand or a rack, then maybe they should take a look at this stuff. It performed well and it looks nice, in my opinion. That's what points and racks are supposed to do, and this does it. And they have a money back guarantee, so if you don't like it for some reason, you can return it. I don't see how it could be any easier to find out if you like something. I liked it, and I see from some of these posts that others do too.

As far as air bags and stuff like that, I never was a proponent of that type of isolation on TTs. Every soft isolation I ever used under a TT totally killed the sound. I even have posts that are almost a year old about that in the archives. I now find that coupling works well on the other components too. It may not be for everyone, but it is good for me.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Garfish, that's an interesting idea. I know Steve M. is a very knowledgeable guy. I wonder what the idea behind the dual-method is? Maybe he is just covering all the bases, in case one method isn't working, the other one will. I don't know.

All I know at this point is, that what I have now is an improvement over what I had before. A pretty good improvement, and it uses the resonance transfer method. I previously tried all the typical things like tennis balls cut in half, and styrofoam platforms, and different cones, and all the usual stuff. This Sistrum stuff did alot better for my system than any of the other things. So, that's good enough for me right now.

I'm not selling any of this stuff, just reporting on it.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Max, I have a floor that is very similar to yours. I have a wood floor on traditional suspended joists, over a crawl space under the house. I don't have a carpet. I use rugs on the floor in front of my speakers to keep reflections down. But my floor is just like yours. I think what is happening is, that somehow the vibrations in the equipment are carried down to the floor, but the vibrations don't go up from the floor into the equipment. I don't know exactly how they do this, but this seems to be what is going on. Something to do with the geometry of these cones and platforms. They work differently somehow. And the results are unmistakeable. My system really sounds better, and I can play louder with less distortion. That is a big plus for me. Some unwanted colorations were eliminated from my speaker system. That was really nice. If these items didn't work like they said, I wouldn't have gotten this kind of result. That's the bottom line for me. And if I didn't like them, you can bet I would have boxed them up and sent them back. I'm not a millionaire.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Max, I was just trying to let you know that my floor is very similar to yours. And the Sistrum stuff worked for me in that type of application.

It seems things are getting sidetracked onto personality issues.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Yes, Sean thank you. Michael Green "borrowed" the idea from Sistrum. Sistrum has the patents on it. Sistrum just did not want to disrupt the industry by making a big issue out of that. The same thing happened when a certain Canadian cable company "borrowed" the technology that Sonoran cables uses, and now this company has a very successful cable line.

I'm glad that everyone is cooling off here. I was getting worried that this thread might be side-tracked! :^)
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Ohlala, I didn't use the discs under the points, because after my conversation with Robert at StarSound, he said the points would work better without the discs. The discs are to protect the floors or equipment, and actually get in the way, a little. I didn't have to worry about my floor, so I didn't get the discs.

On your second point, you got me. I didn't have any other quality point or rack system that is available from a manufacturer. I only had my own DIY stuff, and I did use a couple of other cones like BDR. My recommendation comes from the fact that I liked what I got, and felt it was more than worth the money. Nobody can really try everything there is, so that has to be taken into account as well. These are just my impressions of these products in my system.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Dekay. I used the closet technique before, a long time ago. My current situation does not allow that. But I think the idea has merit.

However, some of the best improvements I got were with the platforms under the speakers. These improved the coloration problems I was getting from vibration in the cabinet, and this cannot be solved by putting the equipment in the closet. Also the closet does have airborne vibrations present, because the walls and closet door will vibrate when the music is playing. I agree that it is likely to be of a lower magnitude, and I see the logic in your approach. I think that using a Sistrum rack in the closet would be a good idea, to take care of the remaining vibrations that make it into the closet. Or you could use nothing. It doesn't matter to me, one way or the other. I just choose to have these things because I like what they did.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Hey look. I thought my report was quite fair and balanced, without the usual hype associated. If that was not suitable, then maybe I'll just leave it between you guys and Stereophile.

You can sort it out with your own wallets.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Dekay, that's cool! I never tried the Stephens drivers, but one thing is for sure, you will hear what the benefits of directly driving the speaker, with no crossovers, can do.
If you like the coherency, then you could move up in drivers if you want to. There is something about single drivers that is unlike anything else. If you get addicted to it, you'll be a nut case like I am, with all kinds of weird gear.

I'm not bullshitting anyone about these Audiopoints cones. They reduced the cabinet vibrations in my speakers and reduced the midbass colorations quite noticeably, and allowed me to play louder than before. That is more than I ever expected from a set of cones, so I think they are worth it. When I moved the cones under my TT, and put the Sistrum speaker platform under the speakers, those worked even better.

YMMV.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Ksales, agreed. Killing the messenger is not a good idea. It's the message that is the key thing. I'm quite used to taking flak though. I hope others have thick skins also.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Don't worry Brulee. I don't mind. Discussion is what it is all about, and people don't have to agree. God knows I disagree with a hell of alot of stuff that is said on these forum pages. And I'm pretty vocal about it too. I think most people know that if the statements are made with a helpful intent, then there is no problem.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
I think the basic information has been presented and discussed, pro and con, on these products. For technical information and patent documents, you can see them at the audiopoints.com website.

There will always be disagreements on what different people want. There have been some comments supportive of the Sistrum stuff, and some comments supporting other stands.

The main point that I tried to make with this thread, is that in my application, the Sistrum equipment worked even better than advertised, and I was happy with the result. I felt that their approach to resonance transfer was in keeping with my ideas on the subject. I wanted to try a whole system approach in applying this idea. I feel it worked very well.

What anyone else wants to use, is up to them.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Fransisco and FBhifi, if you want explanations of the technical performance of this product, why don't you contact the manufacturer and ask them? Attempting to draw conclusions of the performance of this product, based upon others' ability(or inability) to describe it, is nothing. If you don't like the idea or don't want to buy it, then don't. Attempting to create strife here by needling people about some complex scientific issue is not productive. If you really want to know, then call the people who know. If you don't do that, then I can only conclude that you have some underlying agenda at play, and I don't want that in MY thread.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Sarah. I personally think that you are doing the right thing, because it is generally thought that the Trampolin is not a good upgrade to the Linn.

I read some of your other posts, where you have mentioned the difficulties you had with the LP12 in your room, due to the "bouncing" it has. I had the same thing. I am assuming that the Sistrum stand has eliminated/reduced this problem for you. I think that the Sistrum stand would be one of the best stands for your application, due to the nature of its design, and it's low weight. It has good point contact to the bottom of the metal plate, and should help immensely in reducing the vibrations there.

Have you found that it has improved things for you?

And I do know that you and Judit are girls, and as a guy, girls are my favorite kind of people. And I also have a nice dog as a listening partner. :^)
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Theaudiotweak, I read your post, and it makes sense. But Sarah is using the Trampolin under her TT, and it is a large metal plate that's under the TT, with spring feet. I feel in her case that defeating the spring feet on the Trampolin, and grounging the resonances through the Sistrum stand is a good idea. That is, assuming that it sounds better to her, of course.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Okay, what I'm saying is that there is some sonic improvement to be had from this brand of platforms and points. How much is dependent on your system. Anytime a rack or support can offer sonic improvements, instead of just being a shelf, is a bonus in my book. It is not going to magically transform your equipment into state of the art stuff. It will help take care of whatever vibration problems you may have had in your system, and will improve the sound to that extent. The worst thing that can happen to a product in this industry is to be over-hyped, because then everyone is let down even if the product does a good job, because everybody expected too much. This is a good design and will do its job well. It's not going to turn an NAD reciever into a Boulder amplifier.
twl OP
3,251 posts
 
Well I wasn't wowed by the audio racks, but the other pix on that site were pretty awesome!
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