Thiel Owners

Hello all,

Just wanted to chime in my 2 cents worth on a recent service issue. I recently had an issue with the coax drivers in my lightly modified CS 2.3s. There was a very low level buzz coming from one of the drivers when listening to the top 1/3 of the piano on well recorded discs. 

I removed both drivers and sent them to Rob Gillum at Coherent Source Service (859-554-9790.) Rob rebuilt both drivers and returned them promptly. He also emailed me with his detailed findings. The replacement drivers looked completely new, were well packed and included high quality solder. 

I was fortunate to have worked with Rob at Thiel during the development of the CS6, prototypes of the CS7.2 tweeter and CS2.3 coax driver. Many of us on this forum will remember the world class customer service of Thiel in their Lexington years and I feel fortunate to have Rob around as excellent resource and gentleman.

Thanks, 
Michael 

Thanks for your welcome jafant, 

I currently have 3 Thiel systems, my main 2 channel system, a home theater system and a small home recording system. I have had a lot of things pass through the systems here. From Thiel- 1.5, 2.3, SCS3, 3.6. I have had Adcom, McCormack, Ayre, Krell, Classe, Sonic Frontiers, ARC and Spectral. As a source I use primarily a ClearAudio turntable with Lyra cartridge. I haven't heard anything more transparent, dynamic, resolving and ultimately musical than Spectral. It just sounds harmonically correct. Every recording sounds different and the imaging and soundstaging are spectacular. Having Spectral mandates a use of MIT cables (my amps came with warning stickers sealing the bag.) I take some comfort in knowing which cables were used in the design of the electronics. I have a number of ASC tubetraps in my listening room and I listen on the short dimension of the room to maximize the distance from the speakers to sidewalls. 

In my opinion, Thiels have a/n (unfair) reputation of being lively (kindly) in the upper octaves or bright. When I have heard systems that sound bright, the speakers are usually too close to untreated side walls, too close together or toed-in too far. I find that ideally they need at least 5 feet from the outside of the cabinet to the nearest wall, slightly wider placement than an equilateral triangle with minimal toe-in. This, in my system, allows for the tonality of instruments to be same whether they are panned left or right or in the center of the soundstage. It also seems to help with eliminate the soundstage curving in or out in the center as the sound passes from left to right (etc.) Some distance from the listening position to the speakers is needed for the drivers to sound cohesive- with the 2.3s over 9' seems to work well. I am sure all of you have as much or more experience setting up your speakers, this is just a personal observation.

During my recent downtime with my 2.3 coaxes off to Rob, I pulled a pair of 1.5s into the main system. I had forgotten how good those can be. 

After leaving my desk at Thiel, I wanted to show them some appreciation to the folks on Nandino Blvd for my time there. I ordered my 2.3s with the specification that they were to be in birdseye maple and stained a "fun" color. They sent some samples and I chose a bright red finish. I will never sell them.

Thanks again for your welcome to the forum :)

I got the CS1.5s a few months after they were introduced. It has more bass than it has a right to have, it is small and easy relatively to set up. They seem to forgive not having exotic electronics/cables but will resolve any upgrade you make. The replacement CS1.6 did transients better and were more dramatic to listen to (new woofer design and increased sensitivity maybe) but I think the 1.5s are exceptional with both male and female voices. In my rooms and systems the soundstage with the 1.5 always starts just behind the speaker which tends to draw me into the recordings.

@  tmsrdg
Hello sir, 
Yes, I have a full Spectral ensemble with all the appropriate interconnects and speaker cables. I lived overseas for a number of years and have just recently gotten back into this hobby. The house is starting to look like an audio museum. I have 2 preamps from Spectral, both of them older- a DMC20 II and DMC 30s. I also have 3 amps- the DMA 180 II and the compact amps- DMA 90 and DMA100s. I am sure they DMA180 would drive your CS3.7s- it sounds great on my 2.3s and even the CS5is. I have a Classe CA2300 and I prefer the Spectral.

I keep the the DMC20 II for its phono section. My current cartridge is .18mv output and the 202 phono board for the preamp is quiet enough to thoroughly enjoy.

Spectral strongly recommends using a Spectral amplifier with their preamplifiers but you can safely use their preamplifier with any amp. The amps are very wide-bandwidth (the DMA 180 is -3dB at 1.8 megahertz) and are said to be unstable with preamps not as wide-band and cables that do not provide a soft rolloff at extreme frequencies (MIT). This and that they are designed and voiced with MIT cables is the reason for the mandate. 

Unlike @ vair68robert's friend's experience, Spectral components, new or used, seem to me to be a particularly good value considering their build and parts quality. They tend to hold their value reasonably well and in my experience they are very reliable. I have never had to send back any of my equipment for service. I did replace the bulbs in the logo of my DMA180, but I did this at my own risk. I am not sure what issues your friend had if he had appropriate Spectral branded MIT or better, upgrading cables should not be to fix problems but to improve an already stable system. 

Thanks, regards and happy listening :)

@ tmsrdg and @ nkonor
Thanks for your question. It looks like Spectral is getting a lot of attention here recently. I am also a long term Spectral owner, going back to the mid 90s and as I mentioned before I have never had any reliability issues apart from a backlit logo failing 15 years out of warranty. 

 I am only superficially familiar with your Berkley D/A, I have read their reviews. Remember the amplifiers can reproduce high frequencies much higher than the output of the D/A- which is 59KHz . The amps are rated to over a mega or million Hz. Without knowing what the analog circuits are doing at extreme frequencies you are and Spectral techs will confirm that you are running risk of damaging the amplifier. 

In addition, I see the the maximum energy usage of the Berkley is 25-30 Watts, which to me infers that you would likely do better to have the Spectral preamp between the D/A and the amp. Remember the D/A will have to drive not only the interconnect cables, but also the input impedance of the amp. The output of the D/A does not have a current rating but does have a maximum output voltage of 3.25V. The preamps from Spectral typically have a peak to peak voltage capability of 100V and maximum current output of 1amp (!!), fully comfortable with driving difficult loads. 

I have heard the phrases of "wire with gain" or "the best preamp is no preamp." I would agree that it is very counter intuitive to add something between the source and the amplifier and not lose information in the process. But, I have heard in my system, in friend's systems, adding a preamplifier can dramatically improve the sound of the system because it is more comfortable driving the cables + amplifier. By dramatic, I mean in every way- quieter background, deeper bass and drive, complex harmonic textures revealed, wider and deeper soundstage, holographic imaging, more engaging dynamics.

Spectral did make an amplifier called the DMA 150 Universal in the early 2000s that had an extra, small internal circuit board that allowed you to switch the amp to work with a non-Spectral preamplifier. But engaging the circuit that limited the bandwidth of the amp at its input and was detrimental.

I would recommend a preamp. I would gladly trade you one of mine for your CS3.7s :) 

Hope this is helpful and I am happy to have discovered this thread.
Happy listening!