Thiel Owners

Hi everyone,

Long time reader of this thread here, but first-time poster (: I was hoping for some insights on the following: I recently exchanged my CS1.2s for a pair of 2.4s. When I brought them home, I noticed a sort of brown residue were the surround meets the cone of the mid driver. It looks a bit like ferrofluid. I'm wondering whether this is just something that happens to these drivers with as the glue ages, or whether it means my driver needs servicing or has been tampered with. I'm especially curious because to my surprise, the 2.4s sound a bit brighter than the 1.2s, where I was told they were one of the more mellow-sounding Thiels.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated. Here's a link to a picture of the driver and the residue: 

https://www.icloud.com/photos/#0d0w-Z13Lc7fTf9ntPVQODZqw

Thanks for chiming in so far! Good to hear that there's at least one original owner whose drivers look the same.

My Thiel 2.4s are powered by monoblocks from a local manufacturer called JK Acoustics. Their power rating is 105 watt into 4 ohm, but I figured they might suffice because of their dampening factor of 800 at 8 ohm. Speaker cables are Kimber 8TC, interconnects are Kimber PBJs. 

I mostly stream, using a Schiit Yggdrasil dac and a pi2aes 2.0 streamer connected by an Audioquest carbon aes/ebu cable.

In your experience, would it be worth it to spend extra money for more watts with the Thiel 2.4, even if mostly listening at lower volumes? I’m currently looking at a used Bryston 4b st (500 watts into 4 ohm) vs the 3b model (300 watts into 4 ohm).

Jafant, I'm currently using a JK Acoustics Passive 5, which is an old school design from The Netherlands. Very minimalist when it comes to the number of components.

Great to hear that you've experienced both, I'd bee interested to hear your experiences! Since I'm in no real rush to upgrade, I'm also considering holding out for a hybrid design which runs on pure class A when little power is required.

@unsound ​​​​thanks for that info! That narrows down the selection of amplifiers somewhat. Based on those numbers, I ordered a PS Audio GCA 250 over to audition, which is supposedly stable down to <1.5 ohm

@jafant , thanks for your input. I don't have any particular hybrid amp in mind. I'm just currently using a set of monoblocks of which the first 5 watts are pure class A. They switch to a/b mode when more watts are required. Sounded great on the 1.2, but seems to lack a bit with the 2.4.

My primary source is a pi2aes streamer into a Schiit Yggdrasil dac through an Audioquest carbon aes/ebu cable. Speaker cables are Kimber 8TC, interconnects are Kimber PBJs. The Schiit dac is very good at separating instruments but a bit forward sounding, so I'm curious to see how it matches the PS Audio GCA, which is supposed to be on the leaner side for a class d design.

@unsound, turns out you were right when stating that

Being stable only suggests that the amp won’t go into oscillation when presented with the specified load. It does not imply with how much power and/or with how much distortion. 

Even though rated to be 'stable for musical transients' at 2 ohms, the PS Audio GCA 250 does not seem to really enjoy powering the Thiel 2.4. It does offer really incredible dynamics and microdetail, but it also seems to exaggerate highs when asked to reproduce something like a piano sonata at somewhat higher volumes.

I'll search the thread for other amplifier suggestions (: Anyone who has good experience with amps that excel at reproducing orchestral dynamics on the 2.4, feel free to chime in!

In my (limited) experience switching between low power class A, 100 watt tubes, high power class d and now higher power class a/b with my Thiel 2.4, power requirements seem to depend a bit on what you want to get out of the Thiels. I found the sound pleasant with all levels of power and definitely preferred the tube sound for things like solo acoustic guitar or small ensemble jazz, and maybe also with minimal house and ambient. However, with both the high power class d and the high power class a/b, the speakers seemed more capable of sorting through things like complex orchestral music. With lower powered amps, it was noticeably harder to distinguish between individual instruments with that kind of music.

Now if I wouldn’t listen to orchestral music often, I might have stuck with the tube amp as this made the speakers more forgiving of bad recordings, and I really enjoyed the warmer sound for pop/folk. These speakers really take on the sonic character of whatever you attach to them in terms of sources and amplification I feel.

I guess budget would be a confounding variable in this little theory though: perhaps a top-of-the-line lower powered amp will produce better results than a not so well made higher powered amp, as the former will probably be able to handle complex music better regardless of power rating.

77jovian, if I were in your position I would go for the speakers, and then see if you feel Iike you are missing something with your current amp. Chances are you might not, depending on sonic preferences and music tastes.

Does anyone have any insights on how the 2.4 compares to the 5i? I am currently using the 2.4, but a pair of 5i popped up close to me and the opportunity to own a top-of-the-line-model is hard to resist. They are a bit older than the 2.4 though and the 2.4 gets very high praise, which makes me wonder how their performance compares.

Thanks for your insights! How does the top end compare?

I’ve been trying out different amps lately. Currently I’m using Bel Canto ref1000 monoblocks, but I’m considering replacing them as they sound just a tad thin when it comes to vocals. Beautiful instrument separation though.

My 2.4s are black, the 5is have a wood finish, the ad doesn’t say what wood.

Also, if you don’t mind me asking: what made you keep both speakers?

@duramax747 

Sounds like you have a very nice collection (: Your comment on keeping the 2.4 for smaller rooms make me doubt whether getting the 5is is a good idea, as my room is about 13 x 20 ft, and due to its layout the speakers have to be placed against the long wall.

I have 9 ft ceilings.
 

Thanks for the generous offer! I would love to hear your setup, but unfortunately I am based in the Netherlands. 

Very interesting information, everyone! Given the fact that my listening triangle is about 8ft, I am thinking that the 2.4 might work better in my room.

Other than deeper bass, what would people consider to be the other sonic advantages of the 5i over the 2.4? 

Duramax747 and tomthiel, thank you very much for your advice! It does indeed seem like the 5i would be wasted on my room. I’ll be sure to keep a lookout for the Renaissance upgrades for my 2.4, duramax makes them sound very very promising! 

andy2, I own the 2.4 and I know what you mean. In my experience, that behavior is a little bit amp dependent. I used to own locally manufactured class a/b monoblocks with which the stage hight sounded fine, and sometimes even a little bit on the overly large side. Since I switched to Bel Canto ref1000's (class D), the image seems on the small side.