Thiel Owners

I  was hoping to keep the Denon AVR and use the 2 channel amp to power the main front Thiels for 2 channel and in a 9 channel HT setup. If not much of a difference in sound, I will not add extra amp. Denon will provide over 150 w rms into 4 ohms per specs,

I would like to get back to a popular topic about which budget solid state amp will match up adequately with my Thiel CS 2 2 speakers which I bought back in the early 1990's. I play them every day in my HT setup which is powered by a 6 year old Denon AVR x4200W which puts out 125 watts into 8 ohms and 165 watts into 4 ohms with more distortion per specs.  I will play cd's and I have an older Thorens TD 145-MK II from 1979 which I use the 2 channels for the higher wattage.  I Know using the Denon in full 7 channel HT gives maybe 78 W rms per channel which is probably not adequate.  I have been looking at the the new Emotiva Basx-2 which seems to have good reviews.  I am also checking out used, much older gear, many of which I had used with the Thiels back in the 80's and 90's but don't remember the pros and cons I had.  These include original Bryston 3 B, Adcom GFA-555, small Parasound for extra surround channels, Chiro, which I found to be nice sounding, but sold because they went out of business. I also had B&K, Dynaco ST-416 with extra capacitor unit and HK Citation Series, but these were way before I had the Thiels.  I originally had the CS 2 model, but sold them and upgraded when the CS 2 2 came out at Sound Components in Coral Gables, S Florida.

I am only considering solid state at $500 +/-  I have speakers in a family room 20 deep by 16 ft wide into an open kitchen.  I don't do much serious listening anymore and don't play them too loud. Flooring is all tile and there are no sound treatments.  My speaker cable is original Striaghtwire Maestro, power cords are original Shunyata Sidewinders with all going into an original Clean Line VansEvers PLC with 8 assorted outlets. I have the Denon going into the power amp outlet for maximum power. Thanks in advance for any advise.  I have been following this thread for many years and have learned a lot through it.

Tom, I agree with your assessment of the original Bryston, great and tight bottom end bass, but upper frequencies were hard sounding with the Thiels.  I went to an Aragon 100W @ 8 ohms power amp, was a little hard sounding but switched to  tube preamps, 1st a lower end Counterpoint which I didn't like that much and then a CJ preamp which improved the mids and highs of the Thiels.  I wanted to go HT multi-channel and bought a used Chiro combo of preamp and 3 and 2 channel amps which I though sounded great.  I got nervous when the company went out of business and sold them around 20 year ago, miss them, for a Denon 125W x 7 CH AVR with the fancy RC-2 remote.  Used for 6 years, but the GUI went out and I bought a newer Denon AVR also 125 w.  I still have the original AVR set at 5 CH, but no on-screen due to bad GUI board.  I thought about using this for the main front amps for the Thiels, but specs only indicated 6 ohms, didn't see 4 ohn capable.  Do you know anyone with success using a newer Emotiva Basx 2 CH power amp which is rated at 240 W at 4 ohms?  I have 2 Gallo round subs for the base, but still run Thiels at large which taxes the Denon?  Some say to set it to small?  Back to the CS 2 2's, I have noticed the high end seems distorted and hard on the ears, but I am not sure what the cause is yet, I have to do some trouble shooting by substituting other main speakers.  I have been considering selling the Thiels, but realizee the cost of replacing them would be many $1,000's.

I have seen reviews and ads for SVS Tower speakers for around $900 each, but haven't heard them yet.  I have read about tweeters and mid-ranges having to be rebuilt or replaced after some time.  I believe the speakers are around 32 years old and have been used at normal volumes almost every day.

I am interested in possible lower cost upgrades I can do myself with limited skills. I have read the drivers can be removed and shipped at a much lower cost.

I live in S Florida near Ft Lauderdale, have the original shipping boxes, but know just the 2 way shipping to Rob at Coherent would be quite expensive.

Any upgrades suggestions would be greatly appreciated and what I should convey to Rob. Sorry for the long e-mail, but I know you appreciate lots of details from the many informative posts you have put on this thread.

I never heard of Thiel speakers, but in 1986 I accompanied a friend down to Sound Components in Coral Gables to see Peter where my friend was shown the original CS-2 speakers which we auditoned and were blown away.  He put a deposit on them, but changed his mind and bought something else.  I was so impressed that I sold my speakers, I believe Kef's, and purchased the pair he had on hold. I switched about 6 years years later to the CS 2 2's which I have enjoyed for over 30 years. The last year the sound changed, but I will be doing my trouble shooting this week to see what I can narrow this down too.  My other equipment are both vintage Thorens TD-145 MK II with original Shure V-15 Type IV  cartridge with new Shibata stylus, not even 3 total hours of use.  Heard the stylus needs break-in.  Original Cal Audio Icon MK II with the Power Boss HDCD upgrade.

Thank you again in advance for your response.  I am really forward to your input on my many questions

Richard

I forgot to mention in my prior 2 posts about the high frequencies of my Thiel CS 2 2 speakers not sounding as smooth as they used to be. About a year ago I cleaned the entire dusty grille without taking the grille covers off, I used a powerful central vacuum with the soft bristles attachment on a long hose. I don't remember if the speakers were playing or not. After this cleaning, I did notice the highs sounded a little different to me, slightly distorted or scratchy? I have read that these tweeters are highly sensitive and this may be my 1st place to look. I believe mid and woofer still sound good. I will do a listening test today. I will have to call Rob about tweeter rebuild or replacement units he may have. I checked Madisound and their replacement tweeter for my model is out of stock. I didn't receive any responses if anyone had tried the Emotiva Basx 2 or 3 amp with these speakers and were happy with it. Currently using Denon Avr X4200 in a 7 ch setup. For CD and Phono using in 2 ch to achieve highest wattage.

Thanks to all and look forward to your feedback.  Richard 

I spoke to Rob and he said I should check for proper ohms of a small 66 ohm resistor on the crossover board. I have not done that yet, but have been checking other things in my system. I think all of the drivers may be OK. I have a few older Vansevers PLC which have switches to adjust the speed of the transients which I had set to the high settings. I set them to their lower settings and I can hear a difference. I will leave them at this setting and do more critical listening. I also have 5 Shunyata Sidewinder power cords which may be affecting the upper frequencies?  I am considering adding 1 15 or 20 amp dedicated line, have heard this makes a difference, especially since my listening room shares the same breaker as my kitchen with an older refrigerator. I decided to add an external amp to power the main front Thiel CS 2 2 instead of my 6 year old Denon Avr 4200 which has 125 w rms into 8 ohms and 165 w into 4 ohms with only 2 ch driven. More like 78 w 8 ohms and maybe 100 w 4 ohms. I was considering an older vintage Adcom GFA 555 amp, which I had before my Thiels in the 1980's and liked the sound. I see them for $400 to $600, but this is original and know I would have to shop them and recap which is probably not going to be cheap. I have been researching new low cost amps with very good reviews. The Emotiva Basx 2 or 3 caught my attention and would like to try one, they have a 30 day return policy. Most of the used amps show no returns and you never know what you are getting? Any thoughts on these or other low cost amps being a good fit for my system? Any recommendations on amp interconnects for the external amp under $100 each? Thanks, Richard 

I am contemplating getting an older vintage Adcom 545 or 555 I or II for my Thiel CS 2 2's.  I also am considering a new Emotiva Basx 2 or 3 for this task.

New amp wil be connected to Denon AVR X4200 W to drive mains (Thiels).

The price is similar for all.  Would prefer a serviced Adcom due to older parts needing replacement.  Is a 545 ok or do I need the extra power of a 555?

I don't play system super loud. Not sure if Emotiva Basx is up to the task of the Thiels and the GEN 3 are more than I want to spend.  Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.  Thank You.

btw: The Cheapaudioman just had a video that Emotiva was just bought out by The Klipsch Corp.  Does this influence my decision about future quality, warranty and price????  Thank you in advance.

I have been considering adding a dedicated amp to my Denon AVR for the front main Thiel CS 2 2 speakers.  Tom had suggested an older ADCOM GFA 555 which I owned way back as a good match. My concerns are older parts and would like to avoid the extra cost and hassle of recapping. I found 2 older Adcom 545, a series 1 and 2 which have been recapped, but have lower power 100 w 8 ohms and 200 w 4 ohms. Thiels are 4 ohms so would receive the 200 watts. I would like the newer on -off trigger feature, but wasn't available for these amps. I researched a new Parasound 2125 V2 on sale now which is 140 w 8 and 235w 4 ohms. They advertise high amps delivery of 35 Amos per channel. I read some reviews where they compared this amp to the older Adcom 555.  Anyone have any experience with smaller Parasound amp and smaller 2 series Thiel speakers. Tom, interested in your opinion on this since you have been very helpful to me and I can't thank you enough. Richard 

Tom, my listening room is nowhere as magnificent as the other room you are commenting on. My listening room is a family room off the kitchen and unfortunately has an open doorway a few feet in front of speaker and 8 ft to the side going to the living room with the rear remainder being open to the kitchen with a 3 ft high wood cabinet granite top seating area. The other walls are enclosed. Room is 20 ft wide with speakers 1 ft from back wall and centered on wall 6 ft apart. The depth of the room is 18 ft and I am sitting 11 ft from the speakers. I know I am violating the equilateral triangle rule. I need to rearrange wall and  move speakers a little further apart 8 ft and move closer to speakers 9 ft. Typical ceiling height of 7.5 ft and is a popcorn finish. The walls are wood paneling over studs with no drywall or plasterboard underneath. Flooring is ceramic tile and there are NO acoustic treatments. I thought my tweeters went bad, not the case, I tried different speakers and amplifier.  Thiels are not the problem.  I think I have the worst listening room parameters. Maybe an area rug in front of speakers to begin.  The kitchen is 14 x 12 ft. Does this space also get counted in overall area since the sound energy is mostly unobstructed to this area. You may have to read this more than once, but I wanted to paint a complete picture, without actually sending a picture. I'm also interested in comments from anyone about Parasound 2125 V 2 since I like on off trigger and would rather buy new. Thanks for your comments.

I found a 555 and a 545 already updated that I am looking at. I prefer to not hassle with shipping such a heavy amp for the mods. Do you feel that the 545 is enough, I checked my db meter and 75 to 85 with 95 db peaks is what I measured. I like the trigger on-off of newer amps. I found the Parasound 2125 v2 with 235 watts into 4 ohms and 35 amps current delivery on-sale for $829 which buyers compared to the older Adcom, but said they preferred the Parasound. Only problem is no one was using them with Thiel speakers. Any thoughts on getting new Parasound instead of 35 year old Adcom? I will check with my electrician about a dedicated line or 2 since I think my utility room, porch outlets and part of kitchen share same breaker. Thanks for looking at this on a late Saturday night and getting back to me.