Thiel Owners

I still use a pair of Rel Storm IIIs with my Thiel 3.7s.  The subs are probably about 18 years old (have a Rel Strata III in a spare system as well that is around the same vintage).  So I'm sure eventually at some point I may have to look for another solution and I certainly got my moneys worth from them.

In a spare system in a smallish bedroom (my UHD video system, although it sounds quite good on music using my Panasonic 9000 playing files from the NAS), I use a Sumiko S.5 sub I got on close-out (with my old B&W P6s I own since 1997), which is a copy of a Rel T5 (Sumiko used to distribute Rel).  The sub works really well in the space (11x13 feet with a 10 foot ceiling).  I did try to get a Sumiko S.9  (which is a copy of a Rel T9) but I just missed out on the last one at the time.

Eventually, I know I'll have to replace the old Rels at some point.  Upstairs in my bonus room (basically a guest bedroom), I have a pair of GR Research N3s as mains and when my old Sunfire, Jr. sub started to go (I could have gotten it repaired for $200-300), I opted to upgrade the master bedroom (which is strictly HT with in ceiling speakers) to a Bic Acoustech PL-200 II.  I had two subs in the bedroom.  The KLH 10 inch 100W one someone gave me went and I moved an 80W 8 inch Dayton Audio sub upstairs to fill in the bottom end of the GR Research speakers.  It works well in that regard (not that the system sees tons of use).  At some point when I upgrade something, I'll move stuff around.

One thing to help with integrating a sub that is not super expensive is the (Studio Six Digital) AudioTools App (for phone or tablet)  https://www.studiosixdigital.com/audiotools-modules-2/  

I have an Audio Control one third octave RTA and can attest that the above (as well as something like Room EQ Wizard) does a great job.

One would get a calibrated mic to use with the phone or tablet such as https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-imm-6-calibrated-measurement-microphone-for-tablets-iphon...    The mic comes with an individual calibration file.

Usually what I do is measure from the listening position with the sub off at first to get an idea as to whatever room induced frequency abnormalities are present.  The sub should be crossed over just below where the mains start to drop off (in your room).  Where I have had my 3.7s and from the other couple of pairs I have seen, it can typically start to drop off in the upper 20s.  

As noted, one's room can cause differences in those measurements.  If it does start to drop off in the upper 20s, one would want a sub crossover to be just below that.  I have my subs (Rel Storm IIIs) crossed over at 22Hz.  From my listening position, the bass is near flat from 25Hz and up.

The crossovers with many subs are usually not great.  Many of the subs are designed with HT in mind, where one would set the crossover high and use the crossover in the receiver or HT processor.  Once one measures without the subs, I typically (and that includes many systems I've calibrated for others) set their HT sub (and I have a friend with an SVS sub that somone told him to buy, which he uses with a pair of Ohm 2000s and eventually he'll replace that sub as the low crossover point is 50Hz) at the minimum crossover point. 

When I use AudioTools with the RTA, I take a screen shot of the measurement without the sub.  After setting the crossover at or around the lowest point (depending on the speakers involved), I'll use the subs volume control to achieve what is a better measurement with the sub active.  With many HT subs, as noted above, you won't get as good a result vs. using something like a Rel or Thiel sub which are designed more for music use.  My friend does nice woodwork and has a friend who designs commerical systems and at some point (an amp is next up in his system) he'll build something better that his current sub.

" On a side note anyone spent anytime with the Lumin T2 with their Thiel’s? Starting to look at my digital/streaming front end which is quite dated."

I use a Lumin U1 (and have an NAS in the office it reads with files from) along with an EMM Labs DAC2X (version 2) with my 3.7s.  I read the files for my various back-up systems from the NAS as well.

" Is your Pannasonic 9000 player the most current universal spinner?"

Yes - the UB9000 is their flagship.  I also have the (Panasonic) UB820 in the main system, which is the model down, but just use that for video and it is better than the Oppo 103D I had in the main system for that purpose.  I has an Oppo 203 in the system where the UB9000 now sits.  The UB9000 smokes it on both audio and video.  I have the Oppo 203 in the upstairs bonus room system (basically a guest bedroom) with a 55 inch UHD.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/panasonic-dp-ub9000-uhd-player-review.143...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXMNz0doK2U

No DVD-A or SACD playback with the UB-9000 (pretty much just CD, DVD-V, Blu-Ray and UHD Blu-Ray).  It will, however, play up to quad DSD files.  For me, it's not an issue as I don't play discs.  I have disc spinners in every system (in some, multiple ones) that have been rotated from old systems.  Pretty much the only time these get used is if someone brings a music disc over once a year (if that) or a movie is played. 

The UB-9000 also has a bunch of playback settings. Those include six types of digital output tube settings (to make the unit sound a bit different on each different simulated setting).  The unit is also built like a tank.

I have not followed recent developments about the unit and the only other caveat I'd offer is that it doesn't have a dedicated app (unless they have come out with one in recent times) like the Oppo players did.  That means one needs to navigate through files via a display with some exceptions.  In my case, I have he DS Audio App which comes with the file station on my Synology NAS and I can navigate through the files easily.

The UB-9000 IMO is worth its price as a stand alone CD player.  However, with many people using outboard DACs, one can buy a nice DAC for around the same money.  For machines such as an Oppo, one can also convert SACD discs to output 24/88.2 and go through an outboard DAC.  Of course, Oppo players these days tend to sell for a pretty penny (I've actually though about selling the Oppo 203 which now sits in a guest bedroom with my old UHD TV and never saw tons of use as I only had a bit more than a handful of UHD discs and I have my main system for music and other systems as well).  So I personally don't have much use for disc spinners.

" Just some occasional "tinsel" in the sound that you have to be up close and at a slight angle to really hear."

I've heard that in some instances from one of my 3.7s (and from the listening position).  Then I don't hear similar stuff for a couple of months.  Sometimes, I've gone back and played what I thought were the same cuts and heard nothing.  

" Cascadesphil - my working hypothesis is that dry air and moist air couple and resolve the various forces differently - not a theory, but a hunch developed over the past year of experimentation."

Tom - thanks.  I sort of figured it could be something like that.  After one session, where I had some issues, I actually grabbed my allen wrench to make sure the drivers were tight and they were.  For a bit it drove me a little crazy (and some would say that's not a far drive) and I went back to the video on how the 3.7s were made and was thinking about looking inside.  Then when I played the same stuff where I didn't notice a problem.

Back in early March of 2020, I had my AC units tuned up (as I usually do annually and I have two zones, one for a large bonus room upstairs and I go upstairs about once or so a week to move dust around and flush the toilet).  Bacteria gets attached to the area around the coils and they get cleaned with either wipes or Lysol.  I decided to put in the Patriot UV light (https://www.patriotiaq.com/#!/Patriot_UV) on the main zone (and my bedroom and the living area I use is on the main zone) at the time of the tune up.

Since then, I began to notice (don't know if it is coincidence) a couple of things.  I've been sleeping a drop better.  Also, I began to notice (at least a bit more) those anomalies with the 3.7s.  I probably noticed them before that but to me it seemed less that I chalked it up to perhaps my ears were dirty (I go to the ENT on average about every 10 months as my ear canals build up wax) at the time.

There's some explanations of the Walsh driver characteristics at Ohm's website - https://ohmspeaker.com/technology/

If you can stretch the budget a drop, there's a lightly used Peachtree Audio nova300 integrated on Audiogon that is listed as 2 months old in mint condition for $1,250.  If you can get a few bucks off, it is rated at 300W into 8 ohms and 450W into 4. The built in DAC can do double DSD and 2384kHz PCM.  There's reviews out there such as:

 

Speakers cables or interconnects or both?  There's some threads here - e.g. 

 

I've owned a few Thiel models.  The newer ones (e.g. 3.7s, 2,7s) don't seem as sensitive to cabling as the older ones (I've owned besides the 3.7s, the 2.3s and the 7.2s).  In addition, when my friend worked at the high end shop in the early 2000s, for about a six year period, I did virtually all his set-ups and installs with him (and those where all pre 3.7s by a few years, 1.6s, 2.3s, 2.4s, 1.7s, 6s, 7.2a).  The 3.6s do have a reputation for sounding bright as do some of the other earlier models (not owned or heard them personally),  I almost went into the cable making difference and have had numerous secondary (non-Thiel) systems currently and in the past.  Many times a cable would make a bigger difference on my old 2.3s for example and something I could barely tell if there was a difference on something like my B&W P6s.  So from my experience (but nothing as old as the 3.6s - but yes to the 1.6s), some of the older models are the poster children for everything in the chain is important more so than some other brands.

" I just saw a pair of cs7’s pop up for sale. I’ve always wanted a pair if cs7.2’s. How big of a difference is there between the cs7’s and the cs7.2? I currently own cs2.3’s. I’m assuming the cs7’s are a big step up from the cs2.3?"   

When I had my 2.3s, I upgraded to 7.2s and then sold them and bought 3.7s.  This will give some indication of the differences between the 7s and 7.2s - http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/revequip/thiel_cs72.htm#:~:text=One%20of%20the%20primary%20differen...

I know that Thiel did offer upgrade kits for the 7s to make them into 7.2s.  Not sure if Coherent Source has those - would be a question for Rob.  Here's a thread about the upgrade kit (I'm sure there are other references) - .https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/upgrade-thiel-7-s-to-7-2-s

" Thanks for the response, that pretty much answers my question. I think I will stick with my 2.3’s for now."

There's also a post of mine here from December 3, 2019 - https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/thiel-owners-2?page=143

Later 2.3s, I believe right before the introduction of the 2.4s had vented tweeters as noted in the above post.

" So I’ve been thinking. With the purchase of the amps it would be hard to squeeze in the 7’s. Think I should just stick with what I have for now and just save for 3.7 or the 7.2. 7.2 might be better cause of the mineral polymer baffle instead of straight cement."

The 7.2s are harder to drive than the 3.7s and of course are not as efficient (7.2s were tested by a magazine at 85.5 and 3.7s were tested at 90.7).  Remember, that some 7.2s could be upgraded 7s (and I'm not sure if all 7.2s had the composite baffle or early ones had the concrete one).  The concrete baffle weighs a bit more (I think about 15pounds or so per speaker so it is about 155 lbs vs 170).

The 7.2s will play a bit lower than the 3.7s (but not tons, depending on the room).  They sound different.  I'd think that some people heavy into classical music could prefer the 7.2s but the 3.7s are smoother.

"

The speakers are not that hard for many to hold in a tilted postion while someone looks underneath (you only need to tilt them several inches to get a smart phone under there to take a picture).  I used to own 7.2s which were the same size as the 7s (and there was an upgrade option for someone to upgrade 7s to 7.2s).  I believe the original 7s (and possibly early 7.2s) had a concrete baffle and weighed a 170 pounds.  The 7.2s with the composite baffle (which I owned) weighed 155 pounds.  Hifiengine.com has the manual for the 7.2s.  Hifishark.com will allow you to search for current and past products which are for sale or have been sold.

" I have Thiel's original Sony SCD-1, and it needs repair. Someone here noted a tech doing this work.
"

Don't know about the original recommendation but Bill Thalmann would be someone I'd recommend -  https://www.musictechnology.com/about-us

I believe there is a post earlier in the thread about distortion.  I've had it from time to time but not lately.

Might try looking at page 187 and a bit before and a bit after.

I had a Modwright KWA150SE driving my Thiel 3.7s at one point.  Many moons ago I owned 2.3s and 7.2s after that.  Before the Modwright amp, I had a bunch of Proceed amps (HPA) and Bryston amps (ST and SST series).  I now use a Class D amp (and had a couple of other Class Ds before the modded LSA Voyager I have now) and they all drove my 3.7s better and sounded better.  The 3.7s are a harder load than the 2.3s, but not as hard as driving my old 7.2s.  

As you noted, the room is very important.  Also the way one listens both the type of music and how loud they listens matters.  I can play my 3.7s loud with no issue.  I also have an integrated AV system and still use my Modwright LS36.5 DM preamp for music.  The 2.3s when pushed (do you have the originat tweeters - I believe eventually they had newer ones which were vented) can start to have a bit of harshness.  The 2.4s were a bit better (when my friend worked at a high end shop many moons ago, I did most of his deliveries and installs with him over about a 6 year period - I remember delivering a pair of 2.3s with him and the room was just an awful choice for those speakers - high all glass walls on 2 sides, a stone and glass fireplace across the way and a small wall in between the glass walls with a coffee table at an angle that was used for the components - could not wait to get out of there - hurt my ears).

Here's a pair of CS 7s for sale in the Pittsburgh PA area - https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=177758.msg1870519;topicseen#new

As far as disc spinners go (I'm into file playback), Oppo has an excellent track record (and I have a bunch of Oppo players still) but they the 105 will be 5 years old in a few months and who knows how much longer it will be supported.  Besides the used market, there's stuff like - https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/cdplayer/home-audio/audio-components/cd-sacd-...

I'd think among the best transports today (depends on budget of course) are these - https://www.esoteric.jp/en/category/sacd_cd_player

I gave up disc spinners some time ago.  Yes I still have them for video and extras (like a modded Oppo BDP-83 which gets little use but is there if someone brings a disc over - it is set-up to convert SACD discs to 88.2kHz and send it to my EMM Labs DAC 2X via a coax digital cable).  I've been ripping SACDs for many years and also ripping them for others (and happy to do it) when they wanted to convert to file playback.  My SACDs are in a closet.  Yes with file playback you need to keep back-ups but a disc spinner will at some point will no longer be usuable.  Before file playback, I used an HDMI audio de-embedder (with an an upgraded power supply) and took the  88.2kHz files directly to a good DAC.

" cascadesphil

which modded 83 do you own? I know that Oppo built a Special Edition 83."

I have the regular 83 with the Modwright solid state mod (to all channels - in my old house at the time I had a Bryston SP1.7 as a pre/pro for my integrated AV system which was used via the multi-channel analog inputs).  At the time I decided to do the mod, I was using a Marantz DV9600 (https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/marantz-dv9600.72633/) as a universal player and after the mod the BDP-83 was better than the Marantz.  Since I'm 100% file playback now (unless someone brings discs over and that less than once/year - and, before I took hi-rez audio files from the few concert Blu-Rays I have, I used it once in a bit to listen to the hi-rez PCM mixes), the player is connected via the coax digital to my DAC (EMM Labs DAC 2X) and therefore I don't use most of the mods done to it.

 

Serial numbers are usually produced in order at a factory.  Sometimes, there are changes in the build (e.g. crossover components) over time.  Having consecutive serial numbers is typically an indication that the items were produced at the same time and assuming it is a brand that cares about quality control, one should be good to go.

YYZ has a Coda amp with 3.7s (and I believe he listened to a Coda 16) before selling me the modded (LSA) Voyager amp and there's probably comments by him in a few threads.

 

As an example, my Thiel CS 3.7 serial numbers are 87 and 88.  I don't know how many pairs were sold in total, but obviously it was one of the earliest sets built (I had 7.2s before that).  I have a couple of pairs of old SCS2s (for side and back surrounds in my integrated AV system) and the serial numbers are worn off from those.  I also have an MCS1 center channel and a pair of the original Power Points for front height channels.  I bought one pair of the SCS2s used (the customer of the store died and they were too beat up for them to take in trade so I stripped off the beat up black ash and painted them the color of the walls.  At one point in the old house, I had that pair of SCS2s hung on the wall (with Ominmounts) as left and right channels in the bedroom.  I've also owned 2.3s and when my friend worked in the stereo store for about 6 years I help deliver and set-up a bunch of different pairs (mainly 1.6s and 1.7s and 2.3s and 2.4s).  When I decided to upgrade my 2.3s, I was on a business trip in the Palo Alto, CA area and was fortunate a dealer there had all the Thiel models on the floor and they were gracious enough to let me spend time comparing the 6s and 7.2s for quite a while so I could make up my mind.

"Do you recall the peak Amperes of the KWA 150SE ? This measurement or Slew Rate are strong indicators on the performance of a Power amp."

There are tons of reviews out there (e.g. 

  but need to translate it - explains the differences between the 150 and 150 SE)

 

I'm not aware of any (review) that has detailed measurements.  I knew of people who upgraded the 150 to 150SE and there are reported large differences.  

 

The problem with something like that (and remember I still own the LS36.5DM preamp) is of course system synergy.  The other problem is that the design is not really new.  As with anything, technology tends to improve with age.  The 150SE currently lists for $11k.  Probably due to its age and other advancing technologies, it doesn't have a particularly good resale value (e.g. just go to hifishark and do a search of sold ones).  I'd guess the average sales price is around a third of its current retail.  That's fairly low for an audio component that is a current model.

I think that much of the problem is due to the fact that audiophiles have owned it (like me) and tried some of the newer technologies (and my Thiel 3.7s are not an easy load) and realize it is no longer competitive, even at used value.  The ultra high end (e.g. well above the current list price of the Modwright) may be a different story.  Audiophiles, manufacturers, retail stores, etc., tend to live in the past in many cases.  If, for example, they heard an amp of a particular brand and it had a reputation for a particular sound signature in the past (say a decade back, give or take), that tends to stick for a while (I had friends who used to work at retail and that's what they would convey to customers).  All I can say in my system, there is no comparison between the modded Voyager I currently own as well as the modded dual mono IceEdge I had before it vs. the Modwright.  I've had people over familiar with my system and they concurred.

I think audio wise, down the road, we will be dealing with many more speaker products that are active where one only plugs in the source.

 

What cabling are you using?  Sometimes the cables can accentuate or increase brightness.  I had a friend complain about that in a system a year or so ago.  He ended up changing the preamp from what I recall.  I did make him something that tends to be a bit more laid back vs. what he was using cable wise to try.

btw - accessories4less.com sells authorized refurbs and it is $300 cheaper than Amazon.  It apparently has an impedance switch for speakers between 4 and 6 ohms which hints at the fact that it is not considered ideal for lower impedance speakers.Stereophile measured the minimum inpedance at 2.73 ohms at 600Hz and "stays significantly below 4 ohms from 100Hz to 50kHz, and there is a difficult combination of 4.5 ohms magnitude and –45° electrical phase angle at 80Hz. Thiel CS2.4 owners should make sure they have a good 4 ohm–rated amplifier to drive this speaker."

They don't give any specs into 4 ohms - 

  and it doesn't look like a high current amp.  So I would guess unless you don't listen to dynamic music in a small room, I'm not sure you would be happy with it - 

To my knowledge, I don't know of an independent lab testing the full specs.  There's a review (without measurements) by a member of the SF Audiophile Society and he notes about its 2 ohm rating "“2 ohms stable” (not sure exactly what that means?)"

I'm also not aware of an independent lab test of my old Modwright KWA 150SE.  There's a review I saw that indicates a 4 ohm minimum impedance but there are no accompanying measurements.  My old (before the Modwright), Bryston 14BSST has some (but not much) actual measurements 2 ohm (Stereophile) but not with lots of watts and the Bryston was rated 600W into 8 ohms and 900 into 4.  I had Thiel 7.2s before the 3.7s.  The 7.2s were a harder load.  I had to build a custom amp stand with fans for the Bryston and the Modwright still got very hot but did not shut down into protection mode like the Bryston.  The Modwright got a drop less hot with the 3.7s,

So all I can tell you from real world experiences (and the room in my old house had 19 ft. ceilings and opened into other spaces) about problems or lack of driving my Thiel speakers.  When I sent inquires before and after getting the 14BSST lightly used they danced around my questions.  They also made a 20 amp version of the 14BSST (for low impedance speakers but I just had a separate (on its own breaker and receptacle) 15 amp circuit for the Bryston.  So that's should be a clue that in my situation with a huge room (probably over 7,000 cu ft) the 14BSST 15 amp version was not capable of handling the impedance.

So in the real world in my system (Modwright LS 36.5 DM preamp) all I can tell you is what sounds better (and not my opinion as I've had several other people over who agree) and drives my speakers better.  The Modwright amp would get hot enough that it would hurt touching it even though the heatsinks were inside the case.  If one goes to hifishark, there's a used Modwright listed for an asking price of $3,150 including PayPal fees and the amp is a current model that now lists for $11k.  I've noted before that audophiles, manufacturers and retailers tend to stick to conclusions about new technology (and it's not unique to audio) well past the actual performance of this newer technology.  The guy I sold my modded dual mono IcePower amp was buying it to power woofers and had also previously owned the Modwright amp and would probably have substantially similar conclusions about its sound vs. what I have (and it's in a different system in a different room).

So all I would advice anyone is to take advantage of any trial period (and break in the amp), assuming it has one and give it a try.  You might be surprised. I was shocked with my first Class D stereo IcePower amp.  A friend asked about Class D and last I heard (a few years prior) them they had gotten better but I wasn't sure if they had come of age.  I told him I'd get one and use it in a secondary system.  I broke it in using a secondary system of Ohm Microwalsh Tall speakers (augmentated by a Rel Strata III sub, a Meitner MA-1 DAC and an Odyssey Candela preamp.  I had a Bryston 3BST amp in the system.  I was in shock out of the box what a huge difference there was vs. the 3BST and even more amazed when I put it in the main system.

"If the amp is not specifically spec'd into 2 Ohms, it 's not very likely that it's capable at that load."  That's not true 100% of the time (and I realize you indicated 'not very likely').  For example, the IcePower AS series (1200AS) indicates minimum inpedance of 2.7 ohms.  That derives from the pro market where someone may be piggy backing three 8 ohm speakers.  I had both an IcePower 1200AS stereo and dual mono amps and they drove (and sounded better too) my Thiel 3.7s than my Modwright KWA150SE in my system.  There are two magazine reviews.  One measured the minimum impedance at 2.4 ohms (at 125Hz) and the other at 2.3 ohms (at 120Hz) and both measurements indicated the impedance remains between 2 and 3 ohms throughout most of the audio band (the Stereophile plout shows something around 75Hz all the way up to around 20,000 below 4 ohms).  I now have a modded LSA Voyager amp and it was no issues either.  I also for a bit (since my system is an integrated A/V system) had a Class D Audio mini GaN amp driving the 3.7s for HT.

 

Peachtree Audio has a 4 ohm rating and indicates "The amplifier in the nova300 is capable of driving an extremely wide range of speakers with impedances as low as 2.5Ω and as high as 16Ω"  So that should be fine with the 2.4s (as long as there is not something else crazy in the chain such as speaker wire causing an issue with that minium impedance - many moons ago I had an issue with a particular brand of speaker wire driving Mirage SM-3s which were not a hard load).  The Yamaha noted by the OP, like many receivers, has an impedance switch for lower impedance speakers.  I converted my front bedroom system to strictly a UHD HT (vs. an integrated A/V system) and the Onkyo receiver has a setting for lower impedance speakers (the only thing rated less than 8 ohms I use in the 9 channels is the Ohm Microwalsh Talls I have for front Atmos speakers and the room isn't big so I just left the settings as normal).

My 3.7s are in a large room that opens into other spaces and I can play it loud enough with no distortion and no issues.  Sometimes, when my friend comes over during the week he asks me to lower the volume a drop.

 

Below are Stereophile's measurements.  Many manufacturers have the marketing types do their websites.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/peachtree-audio-nova300-integrated-amplifier-measurements

Why all the concern with continuos power into 2 ohms?  I believe the modules I read somewhere are made by IcePower (and their spec sheets talks about 2.5 ohms as does Peachtree's).  The person asking the question, the most important thing in suggesting something, uses Thiel 2.4s.  They don't have an impedance as low as 2 ohms at any frequency and they don't even have something as low as 2.5 ohms.  It (the 2.4s) dips a drop below 3 ohms at 600Hz and is pretty consisentently around 3 ohms the rest of the audio band.  The nature of the audio industry is what it is.  That's why I try things in the real world.

"

I owned a Nova 300 for a while and thought it was a decent and affordable unit.  That was before I owned any Thiels, so I can't comment on how it paired with them, but depending on who you listen to, it might not be a great match sonically.  In regards to Art's comments above, Peachtree responded that the Nova 300 was probably not a great match with Art's high sensitivity speakers.  

It's been a while since I owned mine, but my memory is more of it being a little rolled off on the top, so it might actually be a good match with the Thiels."

 

Thanks for sharing from actual and that's the best we can do in a forum like this.  I've owned Thiel 2.3s, 7.2s and 3.7s.  I've had Proceed HPA, Bryston ST, Bryston SST, Modwright, a couple of Icepower AS (1200) amps, one in stereo and one modded dual mono and now a modded LSA Voyager GaN 350.  In addition, my friend worked at a high end shop and many moons ago (15-20 years or so), I did virtually all his installs/set-ups with him over a 6 year period.  Delivered and set up, 1.6s, 6s, 2.4s, 1.7s in addition to what I've owned.  The store carried Levinson, Proceed, Bryston, VTL. Ayre, Linn and probably a couple of others for electronics.

I can also agree that the IcePower modules I've heard are a little more laid back at the top end than the modded Voyager I know own (and it too has more detail and body).  The 3.7s are not as picky in my experience as some as the older Thiels with sounding bright with certain things.  I once delivered a system with 2.3s and I wanted to shoot them.  The guy had two high walls of glass (probably 12 feet high), a (5 ft.) coffee table at an angle between the walls to house the equipment and a glass and stone fireplace opposite the speakers.

When someone poses a question, I try to put myself in their shoes within their budgets and what they want to accomplish.  I often help people who are not audiophiles.  I wouldn't want to impart any of my disease (😀) to them.  We all have different tastes and goals and there's nothing wrong with that.

@big_greg

 

Do you have the original tweeters in the 2.3s, or the later revisions (vented).  When my friend worked at the store we updated a few pairs (and those were where someone had blown a tweeter). On my first visit to the store, when I moved to the area, they had a pair of 3.6s on the floor but I never heard them as by the time I got back to the store ithe 3.6s were gone and I was just looking for a CD player as I was renting a temporary townhouse with most things in boxes waiting for a new house to be built.

The later tweeters might help a hair with harshness at higher volumes.  I had moved on to the 7.2s by the time the updated tweeters for the 2.3s came out.  While I use my audio rooms for audio, I do treatments to tame the bad areas (without making it look like a studio).  GIK Acoustics (and others) have art panels.  They have lots of pictures to put on them or you can put your own (I actually have a couple of wildlife shots in my office - more the pictures vs. treatment)

Manuals, including later updates for the SS2 can be found at Hifiengine - https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/thiel-audio/ss2.shtml

I'm sure there are other sites but you can go here and get snapshots of websites at particular times - https://web.archive.org/web/*/thiel.com

The proper place to cross over an added subwoofer (and I've owned a bunch of Rels (over 20 years) is first to measure where the mains drop off in your room.  Bass frequencies sum.  So if your mains and sub are playing the same frequencies you'll often end up with a bass bump.  So you'll want to set the crossover just below where your mains drop off.

Measuring does not have to be difficult or expensive.  If you have a smartphone, Studio Six Digital has apps, both ones that cost money and free ones (including an RTA).  Then you'll need pink noise and it can be downloaded (or bought).  There are free downloads.  Lastly, you'll need a mic for the smartphone.  Parts Express sell the Dayton Audio IMM-6 mic (it used to be cheaper - think it is around $22).  The mic comes with a custom calibration file that you download after you get it.

If you have a lapton and prefer to use REW (Room EQ Wizard, which is free) or another program, Parts Express sell a UMM-6 USB mic.  It is more money but it depends on you preferences.

"In my opinion, many of the long-standing and ubiquitous criticisms of Thiel speakers as 'bright, in your face, aggressive', etc. are due to amplifier distress."

 

I couldn't agree more.  I've owned 2.3s, 7.2s and now 3.7s.  In addition, when a friend worked at a high end shop, for about a 6 year period, I did virtually every install and set-up with him, including Thiels (and other brands).  Thiel models included, 1.6s, 1.7s, 2.3s, 2.4s, 6s and 7.2s which I was involved with multiple times.

On my first trip to the store, I was temporarily renting (had relocated to the area) waiting for a house to be built and I ended up buying a Rega Planet CD player for my temporary set-up in the rented townhouse.  They had a pair of 3.6s in the showroom but I never got to hear them.  Between work, work travel and staying on top of the contstuction by the time I got back to the showroom the 3.6s were gone.  I didn't start going out on installs/set-ups until after I closed on the house several months later and got settled in.

I've heard good and bad set-ups with Thiels.  Mostly good as when people came in to buy a whole system, they generally played something appropriate for the speakers.  There were those who just bought speakers and sometimes what they had didn't sound very good to me.

The problem with a transport with digital outs is hi-rez formats.  PS Audio has their Perfect Wave Transport but the current model which does SACD too is way beyond the desired budget..  Many people seem to like the Audiolab 6000CDT.  I believe Cambridge Audio also makes a transport.

Many moons ago, I owned the 2.3s.  My friend also worked at the high end shop and for about a 6 year period, I did virtually all of his deliveries and set-ups with him, including many pairs of Thiels.  

I had decided to upgrade the 2.3s.  The store where my friend worked had limited floor space and they just had the 7.2s.  So on an out-of-town business trip to Northern California, I stopped at a Thiel dealer who carried all the models and they were very gracious and let me listen to all of them.  I spent most of the time with the 6s and 7.2s (I had set-up and delivered many pairs of 2.3s).  I decided on the 7.2s.

When th 2.4s cames out, I delivered a bunch of those.  Personally (and much of course depends on your room, listening preferences and electronics), I'd go for the 2.4s vs. the 6s.  Yes it (the 6s) is older technology.  If someone listened almost exclusively to classical, depending on the other factors, it might be something to consider.

 

Those are 2.7s (3.7s have the aluminum dome on top).  Seller is just about 3 hours south of me.

I use a couple of Rel S812s with my 3.7s as well

Seems like a wonderful deal - 

 

btw - Trappe, MD is towards the western shore of the Chesapeake Bay.  Might be good to check if anyone is going to the Florida Audio Expo in February (start a thread) and if they intend to drive.  Perhaps they could meet you somewhere on the way down.  Not looking for myself right now but I might follow the ad and I did move for FL from the Northern VA area outside of Washington, DC and if for some unknow reason the speakers are still available in just a over a month (I doubt it), I might re-think it and make some calls.  I suspect, however, that most people going to the Florida Audio Expo from that area will fly.  You may wish to go to the Florida Audio Expo site and look at a list of exhibitors and see if any are coming from that area.