Thiel 2.3 vs 2.4 the real difference

I actually had a pair of 2.4s in my room to see if they were much better than my 2.3s(with upgraded drivers). While the 2.4 had a bit better bass they were nearly identical. The dealer insisted on coming over as he remembers the 2.3s as being no where close to the 2.4s. I sat there using the A/B switch from my NAD remote, the speakers were side by side, not the best arrangement but both were equally handicapped, and he was gobsmacked. At one point he said "now that's the 2.4, right?" to which I replied..uh, no, that's the 2.3. Once I pointed out it was easy to tell them apart as the 2.4 was a bit more efficient and, thus, a little louder he started making comments such as "more liquid" for the 2.4. He did, however, agree that they were REALLY close and that I must have a special pair of 2.3s! Right. Anyway, I finally did come across a pair I like better, the Linkwitz Orions so will finally be moving away from Thiel but I will never say a bad thing about them. Great speaker and great company.

Tim McTeague

As I typed, I had both Thiels, side by side, in my room and the 2.3 is already 90% of a 2.4. Maybe 98%. Few people really do side by side listening. We all know how erratic sound memory can be when the element of time is involved.

Tim McTeague

I have CS 2.3s that I upgraded a while back with the improved drivers and crossover parts. It really did not sound "more musical" as Shari, with Thiel, said it should but it did seem a bit more 3D and palpable. I have listened to the CS2.4s in two different locations and they sound a LOT like mine. Hard to tell if they are any better without putting them in my room, they sounded that close. I love how many people hear a speaker in a foreign room and then pronounce judgment on minor changes in sound. For what it is worth, I tool think Thiel can be bright with lots of CDs but, when I check out the competition, Thiel still carries the day. I keep checking bright CDs on my Sennheiser HD580 headphones and they often sound even harder on those.

Tim McTeague

The Stereophile measurements of the 2.3 were an anomaly. No other magazine showed the radical climb towards the treble that theirs did. I have used a Radio Shack sound meter and test CDs to chart my 2.3s in room and the speakers are remarkably flat. They actually look like they are down in the high treble until you add in the corrections for the Radio Shacks own tendency to be off at the frequency extremes. Also, check out the reviews of the 2.4. The brightness issue is mentioned in nearly every test, which was not the case with lots of the 2.3 reviews. Look at the NRC graphs on http://www.soundstageav.com/avreviews_speakers.html for interesting comparisons. Lots of speakers have, lets say, unusual concepts of flat. Thiel has no dip in the presence region that many do and thus come off bright by comparision. Together with the tendancy of CDs to be recorded a bit bright, for various reasons, and the package can make for a hard sound. But, when good recordings are played through Thiels the result can be wonderful.

Tim

Cinematic_systems,

We have been over the Thiel issue before so I'll try to limit my comments to CD quality, as yours seems to be a minority opinion on the 2.3. I have read about 8-10 magazine/web writeups and it has been highly praised. Anyway, many classical CDs tend to be a bit bright as the mics are placed quite close and higher up than your ears would be in a concert hall. Thus, more treble is recorded than you would hear unless you sit on stage. Too many piano discs have the mic stuck inside the body of the instrument. You don't think that alters the sound compared to real life? Sit next to a violon being played and it can drill your ears in, but it may sound great farther away, as intended. I don't listen to much popular music but I understand that vocals are routinely "punched up" to pop out on the lesser speakers most of the public use. The fact that as many CDs sound as good as they do is amazing.

Tim

Side by side is the only reliable way to tell minor differences. Our ability to remember subtle changes in sound is poor to say the least. Memory does funny things and is more affected by other stimuli than most would admit. Tests have shown people tend to find differences when no component had actually been switched. As for the Orions, I am still putting them together. The cabinetmaker left out the screws for the drivers and some pilot holes were misplaced and others missing altogether. Part and parcel with DIY stuff I guess.

Cinematic_systems
"Name one of those media outlets that ever said anything negative about any Thiel speaker or any product they reviewed."

Oh come on. While reviews seldom trash a product you can tell when they really like a product vs just saying it is pretty good. The Thiel CS 2.3 reviews have been raves and some even mention the tendancy toward brightness and need for great care in setup. We are getting no where. You hate the speaker and loads of people don't. Let's move on.

Tim

Mr systems,

Now that you have switched to calling me by my last name I guess you are irked. My point has always been that your experience is the one that seems out of step. I HAVE measured mine and do not have the peaks you suggest. Perhaps only me, 6 or 7 reviewers and most of the people posting to audioreview managed to get the only good versions of the 2.3 and all yours were defective. I do not deny your tests, just maintain that you seem to be the odd man out here. Check Thiel's site and lookup the online reviews. Many have charts and only Sterophile shows the climb in the treble, and their chart has different look than all the others they have. Where is the room averaged response with the blocky line?

Tim

Tim