Hello mozartfan, I watched your YT video you attached on your post from yesterday. I liked your equipment, your choice of music tracks played and especially your cool cat Cleo. But c’mon man, your room is so bright we all need shades. I had listening fatigue by the end of your 34 minute video. I watched your video on my laptop but bypassed the computer’s inboard audio and listened via a combination of an external JDS Labs usb dac, Aune headphone amp and a pair of Sony Z7 headphones, an audio combo I would describe as accurate and detailed with a bit of warmth but never bright. I believe the brightness I heard is a result of an accurate representation of your very good system reproducing music in a substandard room. I describe your room as substandard because your room looks and sounds like it consists of 6 hard and highly sound reflective surfaces (ceiling, floor and 4 walls) with the only acoustic room treatment being a medium sized and thin rug on the floor, which apparently has no positive acoustic effect. Both of your speakers have been launching sound waves into this highly reflective and acoustically unfriendly environment/room from about 50 Hz on up, or about 27 Hz on up if you utilize the optional Merlin BAM electronic component-Bass Augmentation Module. The longer and omnidirectional bass sound waves under about 250 Hz behave much differently than the much shorter and unidirectional midrange and treble sound waves behave in your room. However, a common behavior of all sound waves is that they will continue moving at the speed of sound outward until they meet a hard and reflective room surfaced boundary such as a ceiling, floor or wall. At this point, the sound waves are redirected, bounce or are reflected off the hard surfaced boundary and continue on in this new direction until they encounter the next hard surfaced room boundary and are redirected once again. In a highly reflective room with many hard surfaced room boundaries, this process continues until the sound waves either encounter an acoustic room treatment or run out of energy. Here’s a pair of diagrams visualizing this process - just scroll down to the direct vs reflected sound diagrams on this linked page: https://www.magicoaudio.com/news/magico-news-for-fall-2019 As you can see, Magico estimates that about 80% of the sound you hear at your designated listening seat is reflected sound. Based on the brightness I heard on your video, you may be receiving even a higher percentage of reflected sound at your seat. If I was an audio doctor, I’d be admitting your room to the ICU right about now and calling your room’s next of kin. The bad news is your room is acoustically seriously ill. The good news is that your room’s not dead yet and there is a reasonably priced cure called acoustic room treatments. I suggest you visit the GIK Acoustics website linked below and request a free acoustic analysis of your room. https://www.gikacoustics.com/acoustic-advice/?gclid=CjwKCAjw2a32BRBXEiwAUcugiOIH9bLbsRdKbH7SIwJe9I9n3ltBBVZk96n6Qk1nsiH2ZK3Q58nsiRoCUTAQAvD_BwE I’m in no way associated with GIK, just a very satisfied recent customer. I find it hard to imagine how you could possibly be perceiving the high quality, wide and deep, three dimensional stereo sound stage illusion, with solid and stable images of the musicians properly arranged and portrayed realistically within it, that I know your Merlin speakers are capable of creating when precisely positioned in relation to your listening seat. I believe you’re going to be amazed at the significant and dramatic improvements that an assortment of properly positioned, high quality acoustic room treatments actually make to your room and overall system sound quality performance. Sorry about sidetracking this thread a bit but I’m certain you’ll consider this reasonably priced investment a complete bargain once you experience the exceptionally positive results it provides. Best wishes, Tim |
Erik,
Your blog? How does one access that?
Thanks,
Tim
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elliotbnewcombjr:"Before, large room, he was thinking of adding a single subwoofer, now not feeling the need. If only 1 sub, I think it would add mud. A pair of small directional subs, say 10", self powered, adjustable crossover and individual volume, could extend the bass keeping it directional."
Hello elliotbnewcombjr,
" A pair of small directional subs, say 10", self powered, adjustable crossover and individual volume, could extend the bass keeping it directional."
What? Did you just invent a new 10" sub that defies the laws of physics? Do you think you just point them in the general direction of your ears and the bass soundwaves just travel like a beam of light directly to your ears? C’mon Man, bass below about 80 Hz is not even directional meaning we cannot localize it. The bass below about 80 Hz is actually the opposite of directional and is, in fact, omnidirectional which means the bass soundwaves radiate out from the sub driver in all directions at once. The bass spreads out from the driver in all directions at once forming a spherical pattern and does not travel solely in a straight line, directional path as the soundwaves above about 80 Hz do.
There’s also some other pesky laws of physics to consider, such as the length of soundwaves increase as its frequency descends and decreases in length as its frequency ascends (soundwave length is inversely related to frequency). Also, our brains can’t even perceive a sound at all until a complete full cycle soundwave is detected in the room by our ears and multiple full cycle soundwaves need to be detected before a change in pitch is perceived.
Based on the speed of sound of about 760 mph, this calculates to a 20 Hz deep bass tone full cycle soundwave being 56 feet long and a 20,000 Hz high treble tone full cycle soundwave being a fraction of an inch long. Given these facts, it’s not very hard to comprehend that the very long and omnidirectional bass soundwaves behave very differently in any given room than the much shorter midrange/treble soundwaves behave in any given room.
All of the above almost guarantee that the highly omnidirectional bass full cycle soundwaves launched by a speaker’s bass driver into the room, some of them likely being even longer than any of the room’s dimensions, will bounce or reflect off of one or more room boundaries (floor, ceiling walls) prior to reaching and being detected by our ears and our brains processing it as a perception of a bass sound tone. This is true whether the soundwave is launched from a 5" or 15" driver.
More to the point of this thread, however, it does seem logical to believe that a larger driver would be much more capable and efficient in reproducing the correct bass frequency soundwave amplitude (intensity level or volume level of the frequency) than a smaller driver would. IOW, reproducing deep bass notes requires moving a lot of air. Given identical excursion range distance (the distance a driver is able to move forward and backward like a piston.), a driver that has a larger diameter will move more air than a driver with a smaller diameter will.
The only way for a smaller driver to move more air, to equal the total volume of air moved by a larger diameter driver, is for its excursion range distance to be increased. However, the excursion range distance of drivers are not unlimited. There are factors that limit the maximum excursion range distance of a driver and this specific excursion range distance measurement, along with the specific driver diameter, also limit the maximum bass frequency depth the driver is capable of reproducing.
NEWS FLASH SOLUTION:
A pair of good quality subs, properly positioned and configured, are capable of providing exceptionally good bass performance in any room and seamlessly integrate with any pair of main speakers at a single designated listening position. Utilizing two pairs of good quality subs will perform about twice as well as a single pair, with near sota bass performance along with providing this bass improvement throughout your entire room and not just at a single designated listening position.
Word to your mother,
Tim
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I think most bookshelf speakers, just like most tower speakers, begin at a disadvantage in terms of providing good bass response at the designated listening position regardless of the size of the bass drivers; which is that the drivers for all frequencies are positioned in a single cabinet in some sort of fixed alignment. The bass drivers acually require their own cabinets and the capacity to be independently positioned in the room in relation to the listening position, in order for bass performance to be optimized. Ideally, these independent modules would also have independent controls for volume, crossover frequency and continuously variable phase settings, just as good quality traditional subs possess for optimizing performance and seamless integration with the midrange/treble drivers on the main speakers.
The main issue with this is that the optimum position for the midrange and tweeter drivers, in relation to the listening position, for midrange/treble and imaging are highly unlikely to be the optimum position for the bass drivers in relation to the listening position.
If good bass response at the listening position utilizing the much larger bass drivers of tower speakers is highly unlikely because of the above, I see absolutely no reason to believe that using smaller bass drivers, even multiple smaller bass drivers, would be expected to perform well.
However, I'm certain that even a good quality pair of subs with 10" drivers are capable of vastly exceeding the bass performance at the listening position than the bass drivers on most bookshelf and tower main speakers are capable of providing, regardless of their size. The primary cause of my certainty is the tremendous bass performance advantages gained from the independent room positioning capabilities of sub drivers and subs.
One of the main advantages is ensuring that there are no bass room modes (room locations with obvious bass peaks, dips or nulls) at the listening seat. It's easy to check if your current listening seat is positioned at or near a room bass mode; just listen to the bass response at locations near your listening seat and check if the bass quality varies at various other spots in around your room from.
Tim
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"
treating the room instead of trying to compensate the bad room with a limited speaker is the path to long term satisfaction ime"
I believe the same and it makes a lot of sense to me. I hope we're all correct, since I just spent about $3,500 in GIK acoustic room treatments which should arrive and be installed in about 2-3 weeks.
I'll let you know,
Tim |
french_fries:"
IMO outboard Subs are for movies anyway, unless your room is enormous."
Hello french_fries,
I suggest that your belief that outboard subs are only for movies, is a very clear indication that you've never heard a high quality 2-channel music system with well integrated subs or that you lack the knowledge to properly implement subs seamlessly into your own system, perhaps both?
My intent is not to overly offend you, my intent is to suggest that you may not be aware of what you're missing. It's been my experience that the main characteristics that differentiates listening in person to music played live (I'm referring mainly to a smaller type settings and not to large arena type settings) and listening to music on most home audio systems, are the the accurate, detailed and highly dynamic reproduction of the bottom 2 octaves of deep bass (about 20-32 Hz)that is experienced as being felt as well as heard.
Sure, the bass can still be perceived as very good without the bottom 2 octaves but it's not the same powerful, dynamic experience that is felt as well as heard and closely resembles the deep bass of music heard live and in person.
There's also the issue of, even if one utilizes large main speakers with large woofers (or even multiple large woofers) and the speakers are rated as having accurate deep bass extension down to about 20 Hz, this does not mean this deep bass is necessarily perceived at your designated listening seat. This is due to what I mentioned earlier in this thread;
basically that the main speakers are precisely placed in the room with the midrange/treble transducers positioned in relation to the listening seat for very good midrange, treble and imaging performance. The major problem is that the woofers are affixed in place in the same cabinet, typically below the midrange/treble speakers, and cannot be independently positioned in the room and in relation to the listening seat which is required to optimize bass performance at the listening seat.
It's highly unlikely that the optimum performance room positions for the main speakers' midrange/treble and bass drivers, in relation to the listening seat, all just happen to be at the same exact floor spot in the room, with all speakers vertically aligned in the main speakers' cabinets. Outboard subs, being capable of being independently placed in the room and in relation to the listening seat, are ideal solutions for attaining high quality bass response performance at the listening seat.
Using large speakers with large woofers and the midrange/treble drivers in the same cabinets, there's no guarantee that room bass modes (causing bass peaks, dips and nulls) won't exist at the listening seat. Outboard, independently and properly positioned subs will guarantee there are no bass modes at the listening seat.
French fries, if you'd like
I can describe exactly how to utilize 2 subs in your system/room to attain very powerful, dynamic, detailed, fast, smooth and natural bass performance at your listening seat that integrates seamlessly with whatever main speakers you have. If you're open to using 3 or more subs, I can describe how to get near sota bass performance throughout your entire room, not just at your listening seat.
Let me know,
Tim
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I had some computer hardware issues that are now rectified but I was unable to continue following this thread as closely as I was over the past 3 days.
Catching up today, I was disappointed to discover that a few posters have been attempting to debate some facets of how deep bass soundwaves behave in smaller domestic rooms and how our human ears and brains detect and perceive these deep bass soundwaves as deep bass. I just want to restate and remind thread readers and posters of a few things that have been scientifically proven by acoustic experts and are generally considered to be true by the vast majority of them. In other words, facts that we should not be wasting our time and effort by debating or misleading others about:
1. The vast majority of humans are unable to localize bass sounds/tones below about 80 Hz. This means an inability to determine where these omnidirectional deep bass soundwaves/sound tones are originating from and, therefore, means there’s no need or sense to operating deep bass drivers (including subwoofers) in any other mode than mono since there is no such thing as stereo deep bass. This is why virtually all commercial music recording engineers sum the bass at about 80Hz or below to mono on their recording mixes. Even if a system were configured for stereo bass below 80 Hz, it would be useless since there’s virtually zero music source content material to play on it. If you doubt this, try to name even a single exception to this statement.
It’s very important to note, however, that most individuals will still be able to perceive the deep bass sounds/notes as directional and properly localized within their system’s soundstage illusion. That is, deep bass sounds/tones will be perceived as coming from the proper instrument position within the stereo soundstage.
This is due to the fundamental deep bass tones, being below 80 Hz and coming from the bass drivers, not being directional but the overtones/harmonics of the fundamental bass tones, being above 80 Hz and coming from the main speakers, being directional and our brains being able to associate the directional overtones/harmonics with the omnidirectional fundamental deep bass tones and thereby perceive specifically where in the soundstage the deep bass tones are coming from.
I utilize 4 relatively small, 12"x14.5"x28", subs with 10" long-throw aluminum drivers in a distrbuted bass array (DBA) in my room operated in mono mode from 20-40 Hz with my main speakers run full range with bass extension down to 35 Hz. I can attest that I definitely perceive the deep bass as coming from the appropriate soundstage location.
I not only perceive the increased bass extension and dynamics as seamlessly integrated within the soundstage illusion in my room, this high quality bass also provides the perception that this soundstage is wider, deeper and more open with individual images that are more solid, stable, palpable and natural. I’m able to focus in on individual mages/instruments and follow their musical notes, beat as well as volume and pitch changes. This high quality audio reproduction is easy to perceive in the midrange and treble frequencies, but extending this perception all the way down to the deepest bass frequencies is unique in my experience and something that really enhances my involvement and enjoyment of all the music I play.
2. Humans can’t even perceive the exitance of sound tones in their rooms until the complete full cycle (fully formed) soundwaves exist in the room to be detected by our ears and processed as a perception of sound at a certain pitch/frequency, volume and duration. It also takes several full cycle soundwaves to be presented into the room for changes in pitch and volume to be perceived.
This is simple, matter of fact and routine with the relatively short and highly directional midrange and treble frequency soundwaves in a room but becomes more complex, less matter of fact and routine with the relatively long and omnidirectional frequency soundwaves in a room. As I’ve stated previously, a 20 Hz soundwave is 56’ long, a 30 Hz is 28’, a 40 Hz is 19’, an 80 Hz is 14’, a 500 Hz is 2.7’, a 5,000 Hz is 2.7", a 10,000 Hz 1.4" and a 20,000 Hz is a fraction of an inch long.
It’s easy to see from these soundwave length examples that as bass frequencies get deeper, their complete full cycle soundwaves at some point may exceed the physical dimensions of an individual’s typically sized domestic room and inevitably it requires the soundwave to reflect off of at least one room boundary (floor ceiling or walls) for the entire soundwave to exist in the room.
These long deep bass soundwaves continue to reflect off room boundaries until they’re are absorbed, diffused or run out of energy and invariably collide with other reflecting and more direct bass soundwaves which cause bass room modes. These room modes are perceived as specific room spots at which the bass sounds exaggerated, attenuated or even non existent. Without using at least two independently and properly positioned deep bass drivers reproducing frequencies below about 80 Hz in a room, there’s no ability to ensure your listening seat position is bass room mode free.
The above are proven facts and realities that need to be accepted and taken as givens in any meaningful discussion concerning the attainment of very good bass response performance in any room and with any pair of main speakers. If you just positioned your main speakers at specific room spots, in relation to your listening seat, to optimize the midrange. treble and imaging performance and are also getting very good bass performance there as well without at least a pair of external and independently positioned subs, then consider yourself very lucky since you just happened by good fortune to avoid any serious bass room modes.
Of course, there could also be bass room modes at your listening seat and you’re just unaware of them.
Tim
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Hello jmpsmash, Good post with very accurate and useful information about how we perceive sound at various frequencies in our domestic sized rooms. The Schroeder frequency of a room typically being about 200 Hz , the fact that we can't localize bass frequencies below about 80 Hz, the knowledge that humans can’t even perceive the exitance of sound tones in their rooms until the complete full cycle (fully formed) soundwaves exist in the room to be detected by our ears and processed as a perception of sound at a certain pitch/frequency, volume and duration and it takes several full cycle soundwaves to be presented into a room for changes in pitch and volume to be perceived; these are all very useful concepts and facts to be familiar with for all of us home audio enthusiasts. Okay ladies, now we're having a meaningful discussion about attaining good bass response in our uniquely sized and shaped rooms. Science and facts are our friends, boys and girls. Here's a quote from The Absolute Sound reviewer, Robert E. Greene, that I find very relevant to this discussion: "Audiophiles tend to be very concerned about the upper half of the musical spectrum. “Female vocals” are the standard test material for many. Perhaps this arises precisely because it is the upper-frequency material that does not change so much from one room to another. So, if one thinks of audio as mainly about a system of equipment rather than about the combination of that system and a room (as is really the case), then it becomes natural to concentrate on the part that is affected least by the room. Unfortunately for this view, the lower frequencies are a truly vital part of music. They are harder to deal with in a domestic environment than are the upper reaches, but deal with them one must." Dealing with the lower frequencies via the utilization of 2-4 optimally positioned, good quality and optimally configured subs are the best solutions I've ever used to date and that I'm currently aware of. The more subs deployed in a room, the better the lower frequencies are dealt with.
The truth will set your room's bass free, Tim |
The standard procedure for installing a 4-sub DBA system such as the AK Swarm, includes the final step of inverting the phase (simply by reversing the pos. and neg. connections on the sub) on each of the 4 subs sequentially to determine if any individual sub's phase inversion positively effects the overall bass performance in the room of the 4-sub DBA system as a whole.
In my 23'x16'x8' room, currently without any bass room treatments and without the use of any DSP or electronic room control/equalization of any type, I noticed no improvements in the overall bass performance in my room of inverting the phase on any of the 4 individual subs comprising my 4-sub AK Debra DBA system.
However, this does not mean that phase inversion on a particular individual sub in other 4-sub DBA systems would not be significantly improved in overall bass performance. I believe only a brief audition of a good quality 4-sub DBA system would be sufficient to convince the most ardent skeptic of this concept's near state of the art effectiveness.
I have no stake in this concept except the $3K I spent to adopt it, my intention is solely to spread the word of how amazingly well it worked for me and will work for anyone else guaranteed, regardless of room or main speakers utilized.
Tim
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Hello pirad,
I was so impressed with your knowledge and posts on this thread, that I looked at your profile and read many of your previous posts on a wide variety of other threads and subjects. They were equally impressive, demonstrating an equally substantial knowledge of the science of the subjects combined with an obvious good measure of practical experience on the wide variety of subjects.
I'm fairly certain my very high opinion of your posts as very high quality are influenced by the fact that I agree with the vast majority of your well worded opinions. I was just curious whether you're associated with an audio industry company or just an interested consumer hobbyist?
Thanks,
Tim
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I'm a big fan of the 3-4 sub distributed bass array (DBA) concept. Although I've only personally used the 4-sub Audio Kinesis Debra DBA system in my system/room, it functions so incredibly well that it's not hard for me to imagine that a 3-sub DBA could function nearly as well.
I agree with Erik that a single sub properly positioned, with PEQ and DSP correction can provide good bass response at a single designated listening position but will likely result in poor bass performance at numerous other positions in the room.
There are a few other downsides with this approach. One is that PEQ/DSP is very good at attenuating bass peaks identified at specific bass frequencies at the listening seat, since it simply decreases output power demand on the amp(s)at these peak frequencies. However, PEQ/DSP is limited in its ability to correct all bass dips and nulls identified at various specific bass frequencies at the listening seat, since these require increasing and not decreasing power at these bass dips and nulls. This takes a lot of power especially at deep bass frequencies to correct and the amp(s) need to be powerful enough to supply power for both the normal deep bass notes and the very sudden and high power demands for bass dynamics at varying deep bass frequencies and amplitudes. So, it's really not a limitation of the PEQ/DSP circuitry itself, but a limitation of the amp(s) that must meet this circuitry's power demands.
Further, powerful high quality class AB sub amps, possessing more moderate damping factors, reproduce more accurate and natural deep bass frequency note's decay times than high quality class D amps, possessing extremely high damping factors, are capable of. The use of class D amps to power subs often tends to result in the truncation of deep bass frequency note's decay times which sounds inaccurate and unnatural.
In my experience, I've also found that 2 subs perform and sound about twice as good as a single sub at a designated listening seat. I believe this is due to two factors:
1. 2 subs reproduce deep bass that is more powerful, dynamic and seems more effortless than a single sub because the bass output of both subs is cumulative and each individual sub is operating nowhere near its limits.
AND
2. The use of 2 subs, each optimally positioned sequentially and independently in relation to the designated listening position, begins to provide the benefits of having multiple subs launching bass soundwaves into the room and these benefits increase in degree as more subs continue to be added to the room (with diminishing improvements resulting beyond about 4 subs); these additional benefits are bass that is perceived as being smoother, faster, more accurate, more detailed and better integrated with the main speakers.
Continuing on the bass upgrade path,I've found that the use of 4 subs independently positioned in a distributed bass array sound and perform about twice as good as 2 subs, maximizing both categories of bass quality improvements listed above.
My claim is not that the 4-sub DBA concept is absolutely the best bass system in , it's just definitely the best I've heard and used to date. I believe a linear bass array(LBA?), with multiple subs lined up horizontally along the front wall at precise separation distances between them, could outperform a 4-sub DBA. But the LBA concept has serious downsides like the need for no rear wall for soundwave reflections to reflect off of and its dreaded and awful WAF.
Tim
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erik_squires:"What you are missing from my argument is bass traps. I never said EQ alone solves all issues, but rather that EQ and room acoustics are complementary."
Hello Erik,
You're correct, I should have included bass traps in my post comment and understand you recommend using EQ in conjunction with bass traps for attaining good in-room bass response from a single sub at a designated listening position.
Although I'm currently getting excellent in-room bass response throughout my entire room using a 4-sub DBA system with zero EQ and bass traps, I recently ordered about $3,500 worth of GIK room treatments, including stacked bass traps for all 4 corners and some 51/4" thick panel bass traps for the front and rear walls.
I originally was dead set against bass traps because it seemed silly to deploy a high quality and fairly expensive 4-sub DBA system in my room and then buy a bunch of large, expensive and ugly bass traps to sop up the extra bass frequency energy in the same room. I felt the bass quality was already near state of the art in my room, had difficulty imaging how it could be further improved and didn't want to jinx the bass quality I'd finally attained after years of searching for a bass system that sounded so powerful, dynamic, detailed, accurate, natural and integrated so seamlessly with my large Magnepan main speakers.
But GIK, Duke Lejeune, you and others convinced me that bass traps will only further smooth out and improve the bass quality that already exists in the room. So, I decided to trust the consistent advice of the efficacy of bass traps ang give them a go. I'll give an update after they're installed and I listen to the results awhile.
I'm always looking to improve the quality of my system so, who knows, I just may give EQ a go next. I'm kind of conflicted since bass quality is my most important priority but the simplicity of functionality is a close second priority
.
Tim |
erik_squires: "I am against religious advocacy of any particular methodology. EQs, room treatment and multiple subs are all useful choices. "
Hello Erik,
I'm getting closer to 100% agreement with you on the effectiveness of all 3 methodologies contributing to the quality of bass in one's system and room: EQ, bass room treatments and multiple subs. As I've stated and based on personal experience, I was already convinced that multiple subs is an excellent solution in my system even without the EQ and room treatments methods utilized at all.
In a fortunate and timely occurrence relevant to this topic, I just received and installed some GIK room treatments. My complete order consisted of 10 cartons of room treatments intended to improve my room for all frequencies in the audible spectrum but I decided to initially just install the bass room treatments to better isolate and access their effectiveness on the bass performance in my room. These installed bass room treatments consist of stacked triangular bass traps (GIK named them TRI Traps) in all 4 corners and some 5.25" thick rectangular bass trap panels(GIK named them 244 panels) along the front and rear walls of my room.
As you may recall, I was a bit concerned that adding bass room treatments might negatively effect the already extremely good bass performance I had already attained without the use of any bass room treatments or EQ at all. But I was convinced by the consistent advice from Duke Lejeune, you and GIK Acoustics that bass room treatments, mainly bass traps, would do no harm and only prove to further improve the bass performance perception in my room. It was hard for me to imagine how the bass performance in my room and system could get even better in any bass quality but I decided to give the bass traps a try, anyways.
So, I positioned the stacked pairs of GIK bass traps in all 4 corners and played some familiar acoustic music with good bass (CD versions of the Some Devil album by Dave Mathews and theBrushtail Fairytales by Jack Johnson). I think it's important to state that these are only my initial impressions after installing the bass traps yesterday and listening for a relatively short period of time, my impressions may change after more extensive listening time. The results were somewhat surprising to me.
Your advise was correct, I can discern no negative effects from the addition of the corner bass traps. The bass remained just as smooth, fast detailed, powerful, dynamic and natural with the bass traps deployed as went not utilized. But I didn't discern any improvements in any bass quality, with the possible exceptions of bass detail and depth, either.
Unexpectedly, however, I did notice an improvement in my system's midrange clarity and the level of detail within the soundstage illusion, too. This was a pleasant surprise that I enjoy but currently find difficult to explain. I do expect further improvements in my system's midrange and treble performance quality once I install the numerous GIK absorption and diffusion panels I ordered and have received but the midrange improvements of adding bass traps was completely unexpected.
So, I currently believe that multiple subs and bass room treatments are both valid methods of improving an individual's overall system bass performance. That's 2 of the 3 methods, that you suggested as good methods of improving bass performance, that I can confirm as effective based on my personal experiences and I strongly suspect EQ is also an effective method.
I'm currently hesitant to add EQ to my system since my system currently just requires adjusting the cutoff frequency and the volume on my 4-sub DBA bass system's sub amp/control unit, I don't believe it's necessary for bass improvement in my system/room and I believe simplicity is a benefit.
One of my main intentions of this post is to let you know that I agree with you that EQ, room treatments and multiple subs are all effective methods of improving bass performance.
My other main intention is to let you know that I'm not sure or overly concerned with whether or not you are including me as a religious advocate of the multiple sub DBA method, since I've found this method to be the most effective method based on my experience and the only one of the 3 methods you mentioned that represents a very good solution all by itself.
In matters of supreme beings and supreme home audio bass performance, I naturally but also philosophically, consciously and deliberately attempt to remain agnostic. I prefer to base my decisions on matters of personal choice on more scientific, pragmatic, personally experienced and logical factors when possible.
However, I believe a belief in a supreme being requires a bit of a leap of faith but a belief in the effectiveness of room treatments, multiple subs and likely even EQs only requires an audition.
Thanks for your wise advice,
Tim
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Hello Erik,
Thanks for the audioxpress article, very interesting about phase and zero phase in recording and playback. It seems like the effects of phase linearity and accuracy are subtle, also.
Yes, I liked dealing with Mike Major of GIK on my free room analysis and I'm very impressed with the effectiveness and quality of their room treatments thus far. I'm very optimistic about the detailed room treatment plan I created with the very capable assistance of Mike.
Phase one was the installation of the stacked GIK Tri Traps in all 4 corners and some GIK 244 bass trap panels along the front and rear walls. Phase two will be having a local Indianapolis hi-end shop, The Audio Solution, install the remaining 12 combination of a balance of absorption and diffusion midrange/treble frequency wall panels throughout my room, with the strategy being mainly diffusion at the front and rear of my room and mainly absorption in-between.
I'll probably start a thread of the perceived results in a few weeks. My intent will be to just be honest and describe my impressions as I hear them.
Thanks again for your honest and useful advice.
Tim
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