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The Snob Appeal Premium

I have learned that speakers are a typical victim of "Designer Label Syndrome".  Supposedly an $8 billion a year market (hard to believe) speakers are fairly simple beasts with little substantive improvements over the last 50 years. Ever since Paul Klipsch ( a character in his own right) read the Bell Labs 1934 papers and revolutionized speaker technology there have been few similar revolutionary improvements to the speaker. So- if you are an enterprising manufacturer of speakers (which are relatively cheap to build) how do you extract more and more money from the consumer ?  Answer: Synthetic demand driven by cachet' !  Like a pair of Louis Vuitton sneakers @ $650 a pair vs. New Balance runners @ 60/pr. It's snobby bragging rights stuff I'm describing here- perceived vs. actual value in a product. 

Here's an anecdotal example: 

I recently set out to build a high end mid-fi system (ARC preamp, power amp, Dac 9) for a large room "main house" (not a listening room) system. The goal was big, full, rich sound in a room full of furniture, chow dogs, kids and untreatable other things like 20 foot ceilings, multiple openings such as a balcony to the upstairs bedrooms, etc. Basically an audiophile's nightmare. 

I auditioned a number of speakers- Perlistens supported by JL Fathom subs, B&W Signatures, Bryston Model Ts, Vienna Acoustics Mahlers and Bethovens. IMO all of these are somewhat similar towers (except the Perlistens). The price point was not as important as the sound- given the limitations of the application. 

In the shopping for new or used I found a number of odd prices. The most unusual finding was a brand new set of Model Ts here in Audiogon advertised for $4K with a 20 year factory warranty. The dealer had one slide around of his hand truck and it put white paint smears on a corner of the Boston Cherry cabinet. Hmmm- 4 grand vs. 12 grand for a small fixable cosmetic flaw? I bought them. They sound fantastic. Some elbow grease and a furniture marker pen made the flaw vanish. 

I asked the dealer (Paul Kraft in Easton PA- great guy BTW) why the Audiogon Blue Book for a Model T was so low. His answer was "snob appeal". Apparently there is a big bragging rights  premium paid for having the UFO looking B&W Signatures vs what the snobs call the Bryston Model Ts "Axioms in a fancy suit".  I later learned that there are some prominent reviewers who refuse to listen to A/B speaker comparisons behind a silk curtain unless they know what brand is being scrutinized. To me that means "payola". 

Do the Model Ts sound better to me than the Mahlers, Bethovens, B&Ws? No. But they don't sound worse either (in my application). Do the above sound $8,000-$14,000 better than the Brystons in the listening rooms of the dealers? IMO NO WAY. To be fair price/value does color my perception much like a bottle of $40 Rumbauer Zin tastes better to me than $200 Silver Oak expense account wine. 

I'm guessing this post will anger brand snobs and garner snarky comments because their taste in sound is different than mine. Although this missive is really about personal perceptions of value v. sound I found my education on pricing fascinating and I feel great about finding amazing value in the brand new Model T's that needed 30 minutes of TLC to be at home in my family room. 

Moral of the story: Try em before you buy em, and look for value. It's fun and rewarding with no buyers remorse. 

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Showing 2 responses by phusis

phusis's avatar
phusis
1,136 posts
 

@erik_squires wrote:

...

Not saying that part cost is the determinant factor in sound quality but rather that a DIYer has significant incentive to achieve excellent results  which would otherwise be out of their reach.

Also, I have long ago given up the belief that $$$$ means quality or desirability for me. Sometimes more expensive is better but many times it is not. A true audiophile in my mind can tell the difference.

+1

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I remember what the late Peter Snell achieved with cheap drivers in the AII's. It wasn't a case of luck or "one in a million," but rather careful selection, great implementation and design. He spent money and effort where it mattered sonically, not that the AII's were cheap per se, but by today's standard I'd wager they were.

I bought my studio installation amps 2nd hand. Their "audiophile" edition aimed at the hifi market, acquired new, sets one back 20x as much compared to what I shelled out per amp, and yet they're essentially similar in construction and overall execution. I heard them head to head, and they are indeed virtually similar sounding. Where they weren't by a smidgen you'd fool yourself believing the hifi edition was necessarily preferable. Believe me, it was splitting hairs. 

The need for über-built amps from the likes of D'agostino and others would appear to be grown mainly from hideously difficult "highend" speaker loads, passively configured with complex crossovers with a sponge-like ability to suck up power. Talk about bottleneck effect and nurturing a select segment of amp business. A friend of mine uses two bridged studio amps (very similar to ones I use) for a total of 3.6kW per channel into notoriously difficult-to-handle passive speakers. Now there's power in reserve, as there should be for any desired SPL, as well as a sound more freed and less restrained, but it took a whole lot of (quality) power to get there.

On the other hand remove the passive crossover for active configuration, as another friend of mine did with similar speakers, and it meant the world in harnessing even higher potential from the associated amps - as well as, in effect, the speakers themselves. It means seeing what you have potentially thrive sonically this way, significantly so. 

DIY grants the opportunity to realize designs that aren't readily available commercially, if at all - let alone at prices that are within grasp to "mere mortal." Skewing the typical segment of audiophile products can save you a lot of money - requiring an open, unbiased mind, that is. Buying 2nd hand, obviously. Going outboard active is also an element of DIY. Don't indulge in the audiophile market and its mechanisms. Challenge it; go rogue, and let the ears do the talking. 

phusis's avatar
phusis
1,136 posts
 

@mahgister wrote/quoted:

I am certain of one thing about this hobby: recognition from peers is the most important thing! Brand image. I’m just fascinated by these cheap class D mini-amps which get hyped to infinity due to excellent measurements but sound "meh" at best and the power ratings are overshot. And on the high end of midrange folks are spending a fortune on vintage Klipsch, JBL and LS3/5A speakers. Or Marantz/Pioneer amplifiers. This hobby is 99% marketing and hype. I’m sorry. But you can use that to your advantage and score a sweet vintage system for dirt cheap if nobody cares about the brand. I’m specifically hinting towards the 1990s or 2000s (the dark ages of HiFi LOL) and the UK brands outside of B&W, Naim, KEF or NAD.

"Great post! you are right on the spot for me..."

Indeed, and skewing the segment of products (from hi-fi to pro) brings with it yet another, big advantage in going "below radar" to acquire some true bargains. 

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