I hate to judge too harshly but you’re the one who should be taking Valium. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Be nice, relax, enjoy the ride.
|
Geez, to think someone recently had the audacity to say I took pleasure in shooting fish in a barrel. 🐟 🐠 🐟 🐠🐠
|
I’m reminded of the Aretha Franklin hit song, Who’s Zoomin Who?
Take another look, tell me baby
(Who's zoomin' who) who's zoomin' who?
(Who's zoomin' who?) now the fish jumped off the hook
Didn't I baby (who's zoomin' who?)
😀 |
Q Who is substituting a fast blow for a slow blow fuse?
A Nobody.
|
georgehifi
Q Who is substituting a fast blow for a slow blow fuse?
Geoff???? You know very well, don’t play dumb.
>>>>>I don’t know. Scout’s honor. ✌️
With the Synergistic Research fuses that were blowing for no reason, even though they were the correct amperage.
Those brains trusts here with no tech skills whatsoever were advocating to either go higher in amperage or to use slow blow.
Both of which is extremely dangerous practices to do.
Just go back a read through these pages, you find them.
>>>>Even better, why don’t you cut and paste the relevant comments.
|
Oh, I believe you, Georgie. You wouldn’t hot dog me. 🌭
|
“Ah, let him have his moment in the sun.....☀️“
🦎
|
Personally I’d like to hear again how much more detail there is now, how the soundstage is much more awesome, how it just keeps getting better and better and how your system has never sounded so good. 😛
|
Thanks a bunch. I knew I could count on you. 😴
|
oregonpapa
I put a new SR Blue fuse in my Pioneer DVD player that Grover modified for me about two weeks ago. Oh my ... its really coming into its own now. I was listening to a CD of Bob & Ray’s "House Party." There’s one cut of Lena Horne singing a sexy ballad. Its so good, I can sense her presence in the room. Nope, I can’t smell her cologne, but almost. Maybe when I paste my electric panel the cologne will appear. :-)
>>>I was listening to Perry Como the other day and I actually did smell his cologne. It was Afternoon in Milwaukee.
|
|
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
No controversial audiophile tweak has ever been proven to be a hoax or fraud.
|
geoffkait
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
No controversial audiophile tweak has ever been proven to be a hoax or fraud.
prof
Well...er...yes...but only if you use the word "proven" in the most uninteresting sense of that word.
You haven't "proven" I don't have a magic, invisible friend, or a time-share condo I share with aliens on another planet . Whoo-hoo!
>>>>>Obviously anyone can come up with totally absurd examples and play word games.
|
🐩
shadorne
What a waste of time this product is and so is this thread.
The designer claims no way to prove his products are better than any other.
The same designer makes several color fuses at different price points. How can one make a tiered range of products without any way to determine if any of them are better than the other?
>>>>Actually the designer makes no such tiered range of products as you claim. If you can’t keep up with the discussion maybe best to be silent, and you wouldn’t look so foolish by expressing your silly theory.
|
amg54, no one ever said there was proof. But the score is about 20,000 to 5. You decide. 😳 You can go back to sleep, now. |
There was also the mysterious case of mapman, who seems to be laying low, who said he couldn’t hear the SR fuse, either. I think the prudent thing to do here is to throw both Wolfie’s and mapman’s negative results out. They are outliers in the context of tens of thousands of happy users of SR fuses alone not to mention the vast sea of users of other brands of aftermarket fuses, and should be dealt with accordingly. There may have been others with negative results who did not post, we’ll never know. Or others out in the general universe. Deep six them! As I keep saying, negative results don’t really mean anything, anyway if there are only a few. So not harm done. That the negative Nellies are trying to throw their weight around is hilarious.
Don’t fret, somebody’s keep track,
Your friend and humble scribe |
wolf_garcia
As some may hove noted in my previous comments, I tested the Black fuses extensively and found them to be an overpriced waste of time, a couple of them blew (a VERY rare thing otherwise) although rated to work properly, and I concluded that the Littelfuse or other stock fuses were at least equal to the performance of the SR samples in my gear.
>>>>>>The take away here is results were in your system. You certainly cannot extrapolate your failure to hear to say that all fuses sound the same.
wolf_garcia
My experiment, my conclusions. Note I didn’t pay for the test fuses so there’s that, and I’m also aware of the positive comments festooned with hyperbole regarding various obscure and not so obscure tweaks.
>>>>>It’s not everyday you see the word festooned used in a sentence. Congrats!
wolf_garcia
Many of the things Geoffkait promotes are so silly no reasonable audiophile (or designer/manufacturer) would bother with them, and the market has spoken regarding green pens, Tice clocks, etc. which may or may not make the case that they’re bogus.
>>>>Well, to be fair I don’t actually promote them. I use them as examples of things people like you think are obscure or obvious hoaxes. Capish?
wolf_garcia
Depending on one’s desperation to improve their system perhaps needlessly, and the ability to imagine what one wants to hear, you can always hope for that self satisfied nirvana provided by the feeling that YOU know what’s what because you’re special, and it’s important to you that others know that.
>>>>Whatever.
|
George, are you losing it? The SR fuses were never available as a tier of products. They were never available at price points. Go sit in the corner with shadorne.
|
|
George, but tiered is what shadorne claimed, the guy you’re trying to defend. So you can drop the posing. If you can’t keep up with the conversation you should drop out. Turn on, tune in, drop dead.
|
🐩
mapman
This thread is mostly the same handful of guys saying the same thing over and over. Just throw the whole thing out. Especially if gk goes with it. He can’t even get the story about me right. Pull the plug!
Maybe that because your story is from a galaxy far far away, Poodleman. 🐩 A story best forgotten. Poodleman, the fuse warrior that time forgot. 😳
|
George refers to folks as “technically gullible” yet can offer no proof either way, why a fuse should make a difference or why it shouldn’t. That would make George what, technically inept?
George, George, George
of the jungle, look out for that tree!
|
Door Prize! Best alliteration of the week goes to georgehifi who came up with this doozy,
“Yes this thread is just a seething cesspit of "snake oil" BS, just to make money from the technically gullible.”
Congrats, George!
|
|
Bingo! That’s the definition of a pseudo skeptic. The next best thing to the real thing. Pseudo skeptics are always trying to prove that they’re not gullible, that they cannot be hornswoggled. They’re also called Barcalounger Skeptics. A real skeptic is actually curious and will go to great lengths to get to the bottom of things.
|
🐩
mapman
geoffkait “The fuse warrior that time forgot."
That title is all yours yapdogkait despite the fact you don’t even use fuses yet can run your mouth forever about the choice ones. Did you get freebie fuses as well to rave about but not use?
>>>>>yapdogkait?! Whoa! That’s not very original. The dog thing is already taken, Poodleman. I might have gotten freebie fuses. Why not? I qualify for industry comps. Only my hairdresser knows for sure. Do I win a prize if I tell you?
|
mapman
you have no respect for empirical reports of better sound using SR fuses
Why should anyone? GK and Nonoise themselves have already pointed out how unreliable listening is. Too many variables! Almarg has pointed out the many variables thing repeatedly as well. The only thing anyone can count on is the desire here to get others to buy the fuses.
>>>>Actually, you’ve misconstrued what I said. What I said was that negative results of listening tests dont mean the DUT failed. Since too many things can go wrong. That’s completely different from saying listening is unreliable. In fact, if anyone’s hearing is unreliable or in question it’s yours! Hel-loo! See the irony? 😄
Nothing succeeds like success.
|
I’m going to help you out, Moops. The irony is that it’s your hearing that’s unreliable, not anyone else’s. All the other 20,000 heard it. It’s not their hearing that’s unreliable. You’re practically the only one anyone’s ever heard of who couldn’t hear it. It’s your hearing that’s unreliable. Hel-loo! You’re welcome in advance.
|
jafreeman
Prof, skepticism has its place, but if you read the OP's introduction to this thread, he defines his audience as those who are trying the SR Blue fuses. He asks them to post their findings, he does not require a burden of proof. He also asks the doubters and downers to refrain. This is simply a matter of academic discipline: You have not tried the SR Blue and are therefore disqualified from commenting, as are George, Wolf, Mapman et al. Scholarly etiquette invites you to leave and start a skeptic's thread on the downfall of the gullible tweakophile.
>>>>Well, somebody tried the SR fuse and failed. Was it Wolfman? Mapman? Both of them? I assume they feel obligued to say they’re right and everyone else, all 20,000 of them, must be wrong.
|
🐑
wolf_garcia
“Another thing to consider is the fact that no reasonable explanation has ever been proffered up as to exactly why the fuses were designed to deal with an issue which likely never existed. Fuses are limited in their design by the fact that they must contain a small wire that will melt on cue to be effective…special end caps might help the basic connection in the fuse holder, the wire could have some proprietary component, something, anything, but are they designed to be tone altering devices? Why or how they work remains a mystery, and I'm pretty sure they're simply designed and promoted to generate money garnered from gullible fans hoping that they too can enjoy the magic tone improvements available from something so small, albeit with Quantum Tunneling involved. The overwhelming support from sincere believers, "Marge, come quick, the cellos are cleaner!", illustrates the fact that people simply need validation from others so they don't feel like knuckleheads from spending 150 bucks on a 2 dollar fuse. Enter hyperbole, the salesman's best friend.”
Whatever. |
🐩
mapman
Don’t worry Mitch he’ll be yapping about directionality of things that only he understands and nobody cares about again in no time. It’s his imaginary great contribution to the mystery world of high end audio.
>>>I keep telling you, the dog reference is already taken, Poodleman. Woof, woof! Speaking of irony, all this discussion about wire directionality on multiple threads for like forever and you STILL don’t even know what directionality is. Some people are unable to learn new things, no biggie. It’s no skin off my nose. Maybe you just don’t want to admit you’re wrong in front of all the other pseudo skeptics, who knows? Remember you have two ears and one mouth for a reason.
also, remember you’re practically the only one in the world who cannot hear a fuse. Have you tried candling your ears? Is the whole world crazy except for you? 😬 |
You know, Moops, growing up in an Amish neighborhood is not necessarily good for debating skills or for overall mental aptitude. Have you given any consideration to maybe going back and finishing high school? Oh, I almost forgot. You’re an “engineer.” That can be our little secret. 🤫
|
What’s their racket? Shaking down Girl Scouts? |
mitch2
@geoffkait
"Whatever."
Wait....stop the presses....what is this oh man of few words today, acquiescence, tapout, hang-over? Have a Bloody Mary and check back in...
>>>>>Whatever.
|
wolf_garcia
Uberwaltz (is that an existential dancing pun?)...I noticed a post you made that I may have initially missed, so I’ll respond to it now. All components do not "fall into the same category" as you claim as, for example, fuses are not intended to "do" anything but allow current to run through them and then, if necessary, melt...or not melt. Any tonal impact on components upstream is severly compromised by the tiny wire used to make these things work, and you simply can’t hyperbole your way around that. Try as people may....Cables, caps, resistors, transformers, internal wiring, component feet, etc., all generally have clearly stated design goals (Magic Fuses, regardless of how many times you might ask why they work, apparantly do not have design goals, other than as business income generators), and attention is paid by designers and engineers to their individual or cumulative properties of resistance, capacitance, mojo, appearance, smell, and tonal impact on any piece of gear they’re stuck in. Fuses, not so much. In fact, not at all. They’re fuses...and if people pay 75 times the cost of something for which a 2 dollar version performs exactly as it should in countless well designed products, I say a successful, albeit ethically questionable, feat of salesmanship has utterly succeeded. Congratulations to all who continue to passionately participate in celebrating the Oil of the Snake, and to those who haven’t bought into this nonsense, congratulations to you too.
>>>>File under Whatever.
|
prof
“And in the meantime, tens of thousands of SR fuses have been sold to satisfied customers.”
And homeopaths will point out that millions around the world - 100 million in India alone! - have been sold homeopathic medicine.
All those people can’t be wrong can they? Diluting a substance until there is literally none of it left except it’s magic powers MUST be true!
>>>>That’s highly illogical, Captain. It’s an Appeal to ridicule. That’s like saying people who believe in wire directionality probably believe in UFOs. It’s a personal attack AND a logical fallacy. Two mints in one!
|
Look, professor, you can’t have it both ways. Either fuses make a difference and are audible or they’re not. Make up your mind. Stop sitting on the fence. Hearing is a human sensory perception - that’s how we observe our audible surroundings. That’s how we distinguish various levels of audio performance, by listening. Humans easily distinguish types of car engines, types of aircraft engines, types of bird calls. Why not fuses. Is everyone lying? Are 70,000 people under hypnosis. Seems rather unlikely. What does seem likely is that your a pseudo skeptic who is grasping at straws. What we have is 70,000 happy campers and several stubborn pseudo skeptics who don’t know when it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee. ☕️
|
@prof - Whatever. Obviously nobody is going to be able to flip a died in the wool 🐑 pseudo skeptic. I gave up trying a long time ago. I just enjoy picking apart pseudo skeptics’ phoney baloney arguments. 🤡 Thanks for the nice game of whack a mole.
Blind tests are for sissies. No serious person uses them for anything in the high end, you know, where there are no hearing issues. Blinds tests are only used as some sort of threat by pseudo skeptics. “Betcha can’t pass a blind test!” Are you channeling The Amazing Randi? Give me a break!
|
Dark tone to this thread? Whoa! What? Where? Who? When? Yikes!! I knew I should not have left my iPad and gone somewhere. 😳
|
Speaking of other fuses, perish the thought 😬, what’s the deal with the new $400 Bussman audiophile fuse? Anyone? I’m giving serious consideration to knocking one off.
|
Viscous?! Oh, my! Did I miss a post about fluid dynamics or something? Liquid filled fuses, perchance? Oh, my! |
prof
oregonpapa “Again ... tens of thousands of Red, Black and Blue fuses sold to an appreciative customer base with very few returns says tons more than a few skeptics posting here.”
I’m afraid not. That’s a fallacy.
If there are good reasons to be skeptical of a phenomenon being reported by large groups of people, it doesn’t matter if those reasons are voiced by a handful, or even one person, vs the majority. A lot of people using a faulty method of inference doesn’t add up to a sound method of inference.
>>>>>>Ah, the old UFO analogy. Well played! But aftermarket fuses isn’t really similar since 99% of users are happy campers. And they have been for 15 years. Hel-loo! And there is evidence that fuses work. And there are very good physical and electrical reasons why they should. Who cares about the 1%? They are outliers and can be thrown out.
A medical study using poor controls that yields a "positive" result isn’t any more reliable if it uses 100 or 7,000 people. Similarly, if the technical explanations for the sonic influence of audiophile fuses are only speculative, and the evidence beyond that is "many audiophiles reporting a difference" then it’s just being reasonable to admit "the results could be due to perceptual bias."
>>>>Actually I think it’s better to have a large population for a medical study. Also audio is not really analogous to medical studies.
Thousands, millions, of people believe things in unison due to such biases and cherry-picking to support their own biases. It’s just human nature. That’s why controls are put in place when studying anything that relies on our reporting our perceptions - be it medicine, studies of human hearing, etc. (Note that geoff could not, or would not, answer why hearing tests are blinded for the subject. Why not? Because admitting the reason clearly has implications for the reliability of his beliefs about fuses and other tweaks.
>>>>>I have always said blind tests are used by pseudo skeptics as a challenge to audiophiles, as if blind tests would prove them wrong. And don’t forget, if results of a blind test are negative they don’t mean anything. But if they’re positive it’s time to rejoice. Blind tests don’t have implications for anything.
Instead...he fell back on name-calling and silly "blind tests are for sissies." I guess he’ll be insisting on being told every time a tone is playing if he ever goes for a hearing test).
>>>>Hey, whatever.
Again, that is not to conclude fuses don’t make a difference; only to identify weaker arguments in defense of that claim.
>>>>>Who cares? Nobody has to prove anythung. Are you pretending to be obtuse?
I have no problem with anyone buying any tweak, trying it out, feeling it made a difference reporting on that, etc. Fine. I do that, we all do that. We all can’t spend our time doing scientific-level testing on everything we buy.
>>>>That’s awful decent of you. What a guy!
But it’s different when people refuse to show any epistimic humility, and use their subjective impressions to make objective claims that such tweak DO make a sonic difference, and that their own personal impressions are sufficient to establish this fact. Especially when we have entered an area of controversy, THAT is when it’s prudent to caution "Well, no, actually you haven’t really accounted for the possibility of bias in your results."
>>>>>>I recommend filing that paragraph under Whatever.
Its good to remember The Golden Rule. Do not try to dissuade others from buying and enjoying products that you haven’t experienced for yourself. Pretty simple, really.
>>>>>I’ll try to remember that. 😬
First, I’m not trying to dissuade anyone. But I disagree. It’s far from that simple.
>>>>no, it is simple. You’re making a mountain out of a molehill.
As I’ve pointed out numerous times, you don’t have to "try something for yourself" to understand when the method is an unreliable one, and therefore to have reasonable doubt about claims made on such a basis.
>>>>There is nothing magic about a blind test. That’s a fallacy perpetrated by pseudo skeptics like The Amazing Randi and the skeptics society. Blind tests are also unreliable. Especially if the results are NEGATIVE.
If I "tried astrology for myself" using the same method people use to read their horoscopes, engaging in the same method of cherry-picking hits and ignoring misses, then sure I can come out with the same result.
Astrology works! But, adopting what you know to be a dubious method of inference is hardly the way to establish whether something is true or not.
>>>>Oh, geez! So now we’re comparing audio tweaks to astrology?
If I just put aside everything I knew about the type of bias effects humans, and hence I myself am susceptible to, and think "Well, I’m just not going to apply those rules to audio" then sure, I can try out fuses, and green pens on CDs, and tiny vibrating discs and come out thinking "They all make a difference!"
>>>>No one is saying there are not biases in humans, for crying out loud. But pseudo skeptics want to claim that ALL USERS of fancy fuses are experiencing psychological effects. Which is actually absurd.
But...if I care about truth...why would I do that? I’d want to make sure I account as best I can for what I know about human bias when making such inferences.
>>>>>Hey, knock yourself out! Do whatever you want.
And raising reasonable skeptical doubts is a good thing (outside of church, anyway). It’s more information into the pot.
>>>>Real skeptics get to the bottom of things. Pseudo skeptics just keep up a steady stream of logical fallacies.
Think of people who are desperately ill who are swayed by reports of nonsense "cures." They will be able to find numerous true believer reports of the efficacy of the cure - but if they don’t know these reports are based on a very unreliable sample type - this can have bad consequences. People can and do lose valuable time, e.g. when they have cancer, going for b.s. treatments based only on subjective inference, that fail and allow them to die, vs going for more scientifically established treatments. Being right actually matters.
>>>>Again, there is no analogy between audio and medicine. I knew the “cancer ploy” was coming. Bold move, Professor! 🤡
So if someone is being advised of a dubious "cure" to "just try this cancer cure for yourself" it’s a good thing to let them know "actually, there’s little basis for that claim." Knowledge is power.
>>>>Again with the cancer. Oh, the knowledge is power ploy with the cancer ploy. Bold move, Professor! 😬
High End audio isn’t life-and death. But there are still consequences to being wrong. You may end up spending tons of money that you didn’t have to spend - and wouldn’t want to spend on something that actually didn’t do what it purports to do.
>>>>>Uh, oh, did I just detect the life and death ploy. And the tons of money. Wow! He’s pulling out all the stops, now, folks!
Why would it be good for a newbie, for instance, to only hear one side of the story? Only "THIS tweak works!" If there are good reasons for skepticism, then I think that side should be presented as well, so people get a fuller picture of what is going on. Then they can be in a more informed position to spend their money.
>>>>>Protect the innocent, the gullible, the naive, from the evils of fuses. 🤡
I’m certainly glad to have encountered all sorts of skeptical arguments I encountered early on. They saved me money! Though I could have, and sometimes have, bought tweaks anyway. But at least I did so with a fuller picture of the facts.
>>>>Unfortunately, the skeptical arguments you encountered were, by and large, of the logical fallacy variety, Professor.
And, again, someone doesn’t have to "try it for himself" in order to raise reasonable doubts about a claim.
>>>>>Whatever.
|
Oregonpapa, you’re entitled to your opinion, of course, but in fairness I actually don’t attack people. I attack their ideas. See the difference? If I attack someone personally you’ll know it. 😛 I’m sure the Professor is a big boy and doesn’t need his Mommy.
|
Nobody’s doubting that aftermarket fuses are a good idea, are they? 70,000 Fuses later and counting. Even NASA’s got em.
|
Quietness is a relative term. A very good noise figure for an audio preamp is what -100 dB? -110dB? The preamp on a military project I was on a long time ago in a Galaxy far far away had a noise figure of -132 dB. Which is obviously a great many times quieter than -100 dB or -110 dB. Everything is relative. Obviously total system noise will be much higher than the preamp noise anyway. Getting rid of micro arcing can’t hurt.
|
oregonpapa wrote,
Geoffkait ....
The main benefit of the TC is how dramatically it lowers the noise floor. The SR Blue fuses do a nice job here, but the TC is the game changer. Once most of the electrical connections are pasted and allowed to "cure," the noise floor drops even further. That's what the four and eight week phenomenons are all about. It really has to be experienced to be believed.
>>>>>That’s kind of what I just got through saying. Hel-loo!
|
A Woolfy? Is that a sheep in wolves clothing? 🐑
|
Whoa! What?! Hey, I hate to be judgmental but it looks like somebody needs to cut back just a skosh on the coffee. ☕️
|
|
Women’s hearing is better than men’s due to evolution. Their hearing has to be exceptionally acute so they could hear when their husbands were returning home.
|
