Do you "snake oil’ers" really believe you hold a candle to Electronic Engineering principals, which BTW all of your equipment is designed by and uses and is measure and tested with, then listen to and if needed modded and re-tested, measured using the same EE principals again to make sure. The only thing you may be hearing is fuse degradation over time caused by too many switch on surges when equipment is turn on. Just go out and buy a good quality $2 fuse replace it and save your money not purchasing a >$100 voodoo fuse which some of you claim to be directional, another big
Furphy.
A slow-blo fuse "ageing" right to left https://peakpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/fuse-8312-640x426.jpgA fast-blo fuse "ageing" left to right https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg%20 Cheers George |
There is nothing more pathetic than a mind slammed shut.
Frank
Don't you fusers think that the likes of Nelson Pass, John Curl, Dan D'Agostino ect ect ect would have something to say re >$100 snake oil fuses if they made their products sound better especially when directional'ity is bought into it as well. Or do you fusers think your above them as well. Cheers George |
uberwaltz
REALLY annoying with the constant post removal I think your getting paranoid, wasn’t me, maybe the mods are just doing their job without being egged on. Cheers George |
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It is just his one sided determination to derail this thread with bunkum No sorry, it’s giving the technically weak a chance to compare a side (dominated by the awesome foursome) that’s not at all technical and considered to be "snake oil". To be compared to a side that has only presented technical merit, that a >$100 boutique AC mains fuse is no better than a quality $2 fuse. If you have a tired original fuse because of too many switch on surges, all you have to do is change it for the same quality $2 one. A slow-blo fuse "ageing" right to left https://peakpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/fuse-8312-640x426.jpgA fast-blo fuse "ageing" left to right https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg%20 Fuse aging by switching loads The fuse wire gets hot and expands when current flows. At high temperatures, oxidation may happen, which weakens the wire mechanically, and may be electrically, too. Switching on/off a load means the wire is bent each time. Another way to look at this: a fuse is like a light bulb, the old type with a hot filament. Although very hot, it still takes some amazing 1000 hr to melt. And even at under-voltage, burning lower, it will not light ’forever’ and will get dimmer as resistance builds then blows, always at switch-on, that's why the new globe always seems/is brighter, even though the same wattage.
Cheers George |
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They’re readily available, cost only $4 apiece Hey, put your ! cap on, I’ve got nothing bad to say about quality fuses for a couple of dollars, it’s all about the >$100 boutique ones, that bleed the gullible of their hard earned cash. As I said before you wouldn’t get notables like the industries design "gods" like Nelson Pass, John Curl, Dan D’Agostino ect ect ect talking about fuses the way they are frothed about here. And if those fuse froth’ers went to the sites like DIYAudio.com where they (the gods) hang out, and started talking about fuses they way they do here, they would get toyed around with then spat out severely once they tried of them. As for sand/quartz filled fuses. It doesn’t make them sound any better. It also absorbs the energy when they blow and stops a big mess by most of the time not shattering into pieces.. " Current limiting fuses contain a granular filler, usually high purity quartz sand of a defined grain size and packaging density. The specific grain size distribution provides room to expand for the vapours and gases produced by the arc and offers a large surface for efficient cooling. The filler does melt under the influence of high arc temperatures, absorbing an enormous amount of energy and extinguishing the arc well before current zero. Fused quartz and metal form a non-conductive fulgurite body that prevents re-striking of the arc." Cheers George |
ARC tube power amp owners know (or should know) that the company made the engineering choice to not fuse their output tubes Most good audio amps don’t fuse in this location or on the power rails save for a few PA amps I've seen. But all ARC amps have fused mains, just like any other manufacturers. Today it is starting to become common practice to do away with your everyday fuse and holder and also circuit breakers, because of the cost of these. And in their place many now are starting to use SMD (surface mount device) fuses which are around 2-3mm long and soldered in. These are saving manufacturers around 80% of the cost of using fuses/holders and circuit breakers. (sorry no snake oil ones of these, yet?) http://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/TEConnectivitysurfacemountfuses.pdfCheers George |
For those that need some different views on fuse "snake oil" in audio, in which he singled out boutique fuses here is a video interview with Dennis Had, founder/owner of Cary Audio when it was on top, also Dentron and Inspire amps. https://youtu.be/xLQsEeBKg1E?t=1791Cheers George |
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I could tell immediately whether the fuses were in phase or out of phase. Oh dear!!! Clean up aisle 4. Ask Dennis Had of Cary Audio fame, he’ll set you straight on where and how to insert your fuse.. https://youtu.be/xLQsEeBKg1E?t=1791 Cheers George |
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fleschler
Geoffkait. I immediately noticed a weird out of phase sound from the first SR black fuses in my amps. Upon reversing their direction, the focus returned between the speakers. Same thing with the blue fuse in both my audio systems. I could tell immediately whether the fuses were in phase or out of phase. Hope that helps geoffkait
@fleschler - yep, good description. Sorry, two cleanups in aisle 4 Cheers George |
I wasn't the only one in the room when I tested directionality of SR Blue fuses.
The audio engineer who manufactured the amps heard it and decided there was a notable difference.
This is simple to prove, who is this audio engineer and and is company/credentials, also you could get him to comment here, if he'll back up what he told you. Cheers George |
No he doesn't own me a brass razoo, https://www.google.com.au/search?q=a+brass+razoo+definition&oq=a+brass+razoo&aqs=chrome.1.69...but with his comments the gullible non technical members need to be convinced with some sort of credibility, otherwise I'll keep calling BS on it. As it looks very much like shilling. He's has a total of 169 post, the majority of them are backing either you, Synergistic Research Fuses, or Synergistic Research HFT's which are another load of $350 to $500 "snake oil" BS. http://www.synergisticresearch.com/acoustics/passive/hft/Isn't it a wonder with this sort of background that it makes one think what's going on? And it's not just with him, there are the other non technical recruits of yours that are relatively new members with minimal posts, yet very dogmatic about SR fuses and what it can do to the music, this also makes one wonder what's going on. And Geoff, all ones needs is to look at your website, and they'll know that things are not all what you want them to believe. http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina5.htmI challenge you to get just one known hiend amp manufacturer to back up
what you lot say SR fuses can do, to the music and also the direction difference. Cheers George |
His retail site is http://www.groverhuffman.com/home
Hate to tell you, this proves nothing, this NOT the site of an Electronic Engineer. The guy has probably/maybe? done what my 16 year son did, in Australia, it's a 2 month course to give him the very basic licence (if he has one) to make up power cables and that's about it. If he doesn't have this basic licence they are illegal and very dangerous, and in Australia sue-able. All the other stuff he makes and sells even you can do it with zero licencing and knowledge, all you need is know how to hold a soldering iron Cheers George |
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fleschler
You did Grover no favours using him to back up your BS, in fact you may have harmed him, he's just trying to make a quite buck on in his twilight years. It shows from his website you posted up as proof to your BS, that you have no idea what so ever what constitutes a qualified Electronic Engineer. So what if he applied for a patent in 2006 we did also, it means nothing credibility wise anyone can do it, maybe you'd have a little cred if it made him rich and famous like a Nelson Pass John Curl, D'Agostino ect. Give up the fuse snake oil superlatives and direction wonderment you sprout forth with gay abandon. It's just not possible, it's an AC main fuse that has a change of direction going through it 60 times a second, so it can possibly be directional, IMPOSSIBLE!!! Cheers George |
I consider it to be the height of arrogance for a member who has been here for only three months, and has a very minimal posting history, to provide such an insulting comment about a long-time member whose lengthy history of posts about non-fuse subjects has been widely respected and appreciated.
Regards,
-- Al
+1 Al And there are a few of them like this, if you look. Cheers George |
Lack of post numbers really has nothing to do with credibility.
That's just half the story. Put in the other half Frank, that most of them are for SR's products. There are others similar, just this ones an example. Cheers George |
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wolf_garcia
If somebody wants to loan me a Blue Fuse, I’ll put it in my power amp and report back. It could be life changing. You awesome foursome fusers have just been presented with a golden opportunity by wolf, and not one of you took it up. What a bunch of wusses. No confidence in what you preach. Cheers George |
You awesome foursome fusers have just been presented with a golden opportunity by wolf, and not one of you took it up.
Why don't one of you "Awesome Foursome" fusers take up Wolf's challenge. What cred have you got to loose, that you've already lost? By some miracle you might get it back, and some, the odds are with you. Cheers George |
I certainly do not disagree with your premise that wire, which has been drawn, has a
I certainly do not disagree with your premise that wire, which has been drawn, has a directionality that can be discerned under microscopy. What I disagree with is that the directionality could possibly be audible in a home stereo system, particularly the directionality of the 2 to 3.2 cm of wire in a line fuse. There is no directionality! It's fuse in an AC mains, that's alternating current at 60 x per second. You would have to take the fuse in an out rotate it 60x per second for this
directionality "snake oil" to make any sense. And if it were directional to the extent they say, it would have to be in a dc rail not ac mains, to do anything because in effect "it would be a diode", and that would really screw things up. Cheers George |
If "special" fuse makers sent samples to audiophiles who hadn’t thought much about fuses, and then said "if you like it please send me 150 bucks," I think the results may differ from the opinions here. I’m speculating of course. +1 Hypothetically a great idea. That then takes the expectation bias out of it as well. All prospective fuser’s should ask for this. As you Wolf, I think the results may differ from the opinions here Cheers George |
Uh, how would that take the expectation bias out of it? Because if you pay $150 up front for a $2 fuse your gambling and ridding that winner home. That’s EXPECTATION BIAS. This saying (one of Ralph’s "Atmasphere’s") his best contributions to this thread. If you borrow something, you'll be far more honest in your appraisal of it, and not embarrassed at what you've done. Also as many fusers say to "burn in" this "snake oil" fuse is longer than the return period is, $150 looser’s anyway you look at it. Cheers George |
13 posts and all on "snake oil" fuses have you no shame. Your definitely
not doing the fuse "snake oil" brigade any favours.
If fact your helping the detractors. Keep it up!
Cheers George
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If it's the wire that gives the fuse directionality, why can't the wire be inserted into the fuse with one of the end caps marked?
If a mains fuse is marked as a reference to directionalality, the the manufacturer would be liable. As there is no direction with main voltage as it changes (cycles) 60 x a second. The only way this could be seen as directional, is if the fuse was taken out and reversed 60 x a second as well to stay in syc with the mains. BTW Jetter, had a quick look at your fuse "snake oil" posts, and it seems you are neither yay or nay, are you a fence sitter on the subject, is this right or did I miss something? Cheers George |
oem-wheels103 posts04-07-2018 12:49pm
I got the blue and about 75 hours and hear no improvement what so ever.. Ah, but!!!! the awesome foursome or their cronies will say it has to "burn-in" another 646hrs before it magically turns on or expectation bias sets in, and that’s 1hr past the 30 day return date. Send it back now, express. Cheers George |
First, if there is no improvement immediately, install the fuse in the opposite direction. If still no improvement, then send it back, it doesn't work
You mean it's faulty? No, there's a secret micro switch just under the end cap he didn't switch on, that's the problem. Cheers George |
uberwaltz
Think we ran out of useful things to say a LONG time ago for sure.
Now its just bickering back and forth of which NOBODY will come out on top. This is probably the only thoughtful thing you’ve said. And I agree. MODS PLEASE SHUT THIS TOXIC THREAD DOWN! Cheers George |
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Changing a fuse direction is simple
No it's not. That just hocus pocus snake oil. As there is no direction in mains, as it changes 60 x a second. Only if you sync'ed the fuse to the 60hz mains frequency to reverse it in it's holder 60 x second in syc with the mains frequency, then you could decide whether or not the direction is correct, if at all.. Cheers George |
Lets try to keep this thread on topic ... its about Synergistic Research Blue fuses. Yes that’s right, it’s all about Blue Fuses as this thread is where the sales are coming from.. Are they what they say they are, with only subjective opinions, from dubious "expectation biased" purchasers without any Electronic or Scientific knowledge or backup as Wolf pointed out above. Or are they just another money grabbing "snake oil" product, that’s making in the order of 500% profit on each fuse. Can you really hear the difference when they are reversed, when the AC mains has no one way direction, as it switches it’s direction 60 x a second!! Cheers George |
You make me "bristle." Good your taking notice. Keeping it real as you said " Lets try to keep this thread on topic ... its about Synergistic Research Blue fuses" Now just to get the unjustified superlatives and directional ability stopped the awesome foursome heap on these "snake oil" BLUE FUSES. Which may change to GOLD or whatever is next, to keep the ball (profits) rolling along, I’m fairly sure there’ll be a price hike though. Then there’ll be a new thread maybe " The new Synergistic Research GOLD fuses .... " BTW: Correct me if I’m wrong, but has anyone noticed, that not once has Synergistic Research voiced their opinion here and backed anyone’s posts about how these mains fuses are directional and the massive sound improvement they can make????. Dennis Had director/founder of "Cary Audio", opinion on snake oil fuses ect. https://youtu.be/xLQsEeBKg1E?t=1791 Cheers George |
I installed an SR Blue fuse in my "new" Grover DVD player a little over a week ago now ... the difference is remarkable. Of course I pasted the end caps with TC before installing the fuse. Talk about bass response! In spades.
" the difference is remarkable. Talk about bass response! In spades." To the non technical gullible, a fuse cannot do this. THIS IS PURE BS!!!! This is pure "snake oil" an AC mains fuse cannot EVER do this in a CD player, there are transformer/s after the mains fuse, then bridge rectifier/s, then every power supply section after the bridge rectifier’s is super regulated by different + and - regulators for each section, so it is IMPOSSIBLE for a mains fuse to do this BS. EG: It’s like saying someone dropped an drop of water in the Pacific Ocean off California and we could still see the ripples at Bondi Beach it caused here in Australia, that just how stupid, stupid, stupid all this "snake oil" fuse BS is. As I said before get Synergistic Research to back up your statements here on Audiogon with posts of their own. As every manufacture I've seen on Audiogon has something to say if their product is mentioned and discussed in a thread. Cheers George
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George ... you just don't get the program here,
There is no program here it's all smoke and mirrors, that's all, with no cred whatsoever. Cheers George |
uberwaltz
I would welcome the same test on a Blue fuse for sure Forget Geoff’s post, look at your own if you understand what you just said. This is the sort of comment that makes anyone with even the slightest tech knowledge, shake their head in wonderment, that these fuser’s even know where the on-button is and are recommending fuses. Cheers George |
folkfreak
taken from an interview with the designer of AQ power cords and conditioners
uberwaltz
Thank you, that is an Excellent method of actually determing a real sonic difference.
I would welcome the same test on a Blue fuse for sure.
Anybody have the capability to do that here?
If you knew anything of electronic engineering, you would not have asked this question, as it's impossible to do this test with a fuse. Cheers George |
Testing and getting a different result because of the fuse, nothing else! Changing the fuse is like any other change in the power setup like a cord or conditioner And this is not correct, as a mains cord because of it ’s construction has very different set of parameters to it’s length, it has resistance, capacitance and inductance. A mains fuse as none of these, save for "maybe" a very minute (milli-ohm) amount of resistance, which means nothing. And could be regarded as differing ambient temperature when measured as Ralph or Al pointed out very early in this thread, when the milli-ohm resistance measurements were quoted as being "the reason for the massive sound quality improvements". Cheers George |
nonoise It's funny but it suits you and your user name more than mine sunshine. Cheers George |
uberwaltzIs there any chance we can steer this discussion back on topic or is George determined to get it locked by mods.... Again! Once again, you’ve got that wrong. I’m giving a view point to the members here who have no technical knowledge that are thinking about blowing 150 bucks on a fuse that has the same sound quality as a $2 fuse. Cheers George |
George
Why should SR have to come here to answer to you? Not just to me, to all, because every other manufacturer would if there some dispute about their product. It would be great to hear what they say about the magical transformation of sound quality and the reason for it (not just hearsay from fusers). As I said before if any product is discussed here on Audiogon and the manufacturer is a member, nearly 100% that member (manufacturer) will have something to say to back his product.
But in this case, Synergistic’s silence is deafening! legality reasons perhaps??
Cheers George |
As I said before if any product is discussed here on Audiogon and the manufacturer is a member, nearly 100% that member (manufacturer) will have something to say to back his product.
Also just found they are advertisers here on Audiogon. So there's another reason to back the fusers transformation of sound quality beliefs. https://www.audiogon.com/brands/synergistic-researchCheers George |
Thanks ADMIN. Post 04-14-2018 6:22am was restored, as nothing wrong with it. It was removed by a overzealous mod, maybe a fuser?
Way ahead of ya on that one, George.
They've been here for a long time.
Really!!! all the more reason to back the fusers. Cheers George |
I don't subscribe to blind test parlour tricks.
This can only tilt in favour to the result of expectation bias for one way, and this result has no valid outcome.
Be forewarned, any amount of protests of "the need to be blind tested" will fall on (literally) deaf ears.
Which maybe the case.
wolf_garcia
Fuser Fandom I like it Wolf, maybe soon we can start a whole new language base around "fuse fetish", ah! there's another one. We are rocking!! Cheers George Cheers George |
If I was SR, I would take one look at the acrimonious exchanges occurring on this thread and run for the hills.
Maybe you, but they're not you, they own the business, and any owner would protect it with legitimate verve and gusto, if not ducking for cover with tongue in cheek over some of the sound quality and directionalality improvement claims made here. Let them in their own words give these types of improvements that their $150 fuse can do over a good quality $2 fuse. Cheers George |
Really?? Think again.
Cheers George |
Regarding cost, my Schiit Loki was 150 bucks and has circuits and knobs and things and actually is an understandable and useful "made in U.S.A." item (and I don't care if anybody else buys one…I really don't)…what makes a fuse cost 150 bucks? Actually, we all know the answer to that one.
You forgot Wolf, it also has a fuse that comes with it for $150 and works as good as as these "snake oil" ones for $150. Cheers George |
maplegrovemusic813 posts04-15-2018 6:40amIt is labor intensive to roll the synergistic sticker onto a fuse . $148 profit each time they put the sticker on . Cha Ching ,Cha Ching . Printing money !
Yeah, that's about the gist of it. Cheers George |
