The mistake armchair speaker snobs make too often

I have been building speakers for over 40 years.  Another miss-conception is that they are cheap.  Not so.  Markup on drivers and crossover parts is as brutal as finished speakers and one needs to figure I go through a couple prototype boxes before I am happy and usually several sets of drivers. I prototype the crossovers with cheap parts before I risk buying big air-cores and poly caps. Then, you think you can match those Chinese piano finish cabinets?  I can but it takes me weeks and materials for a couple bookshelves can run several hundred. 

If you look at the direct sale companies, Buchard, Emotiva, Taylor, Ohm etc, you will see about half price compared to the traditional distribution network.  It is actually hard for a DIY to match them in overall value and a disaster if you include your time. 

FWIW, I lean to paper cones and silk domes. Seas, SB, Vifa etc.  Above 4K, I have never heard a tweeter beat an XT-25.  Unfortunately, that leaves a problem getting from a 6 inch to the tweeter, so I am working on one now using an SB.

The GR kits may be pretty fair. Danny can at least get the simple frequency response decent which is far above 90% of the speakers in the store!  The CSS kits and even the spec design from ASR would seem to be reasonable.  SEAS and SB have spec designs. All could be built if not getting crazy with exotic woods for under $1500 a pair.  Do consider if the same materials were bought by a big company, they may be only $150.   If I get lazy, I really like the CSS tweeter, but the ASR spec uses the Purify woofer which is in a class by itself. I prefer one of the SB tweeters over the DTX though. I wish Transducer Labs was still around. 

Fortunately for my bank account, the couple of times I thought about a commercial line, events saved me. Closed I got was a series of three and I had two stores and a distributor seriously looking. 

Why so few off the shelf drivers in commercial speakers?  Well, preventing copy-cat rip-offs is one, and then we engineers always think we know better than transducer engineers who have been doing it for decades.   Sometimes for good reason to make a woofer fit a box size and price point set by marketing. Sometimes just for our ego. 

In-house manufacturing is reserved for ultra high volume ( cost control, supply chain management, rapid prototyping like Dynaudio) or for the uber high end prestige market where you are trying to justify the price. Even there, you will find they don't make all the pieces.  As far as quality control, if you can't control the quality of your supplier, it is your fault. I say that from the years I spent in Failure Analysis as a Quality Engineer. Even I knew how to prevent Chinese bait and switch runs. 

Eric, a super smooth $50 clean tweeter is not that easy to find though they are out there. If you have any recommendations, I am all ears.  But yea, if you want to produce insane levels then follow the hints from the late Dr. Geedes and use compression drivers in horns and JBL PA midranges.  Personally, a 1 inch soft dome can exceed the level of hearing damage in my living room so I have no need. 

Now the patents have run out, I keep hoping for AMT's with distortion levels that I can handle. They do so much well, but gasp, not there yet. Elac, Golden Ear, Martin Logan.  ARRG!   RAAL and other similar ribbons? Just as bad. I get the airiness and that is great, but just can't handle the distortion. 

Hidden cost factor: For what my woodshop cost, I could have bought top end Wilsons!  Same with the misconception you can build furniture cheaper than you can buy it. 

Yea, from 4K up the Vifa is fantastic and easy to use. Have them on my desk with RS 120's.  Go much below that, even in my near-field desk setup and the distortion skyrockets.  It just does not have the surface area. Hard part is a decent midrange.  I have not found one because of the efficiency problem and blending them with the woofer. Totem did well with them until the supply got short during COVID and they switched to a metal dome that IMHO is no where near as nice. 

I tried a pair of the SS, and a pair of the HDS. Both were OK, but to tame and flatten took too many parts. I have a pair of SB26 I am giving a try as they can work below 2K at reasonable levels. I tried their "ring radiator" and while it did sound clean, was a bit bumpy.  I noticed Sonas Faber is doing something similar stabilizing the dome from the front.  At least in the store, I am pretty impressed. I have used several pairs of the Seas 27 TBFC but in hind sight, I think the issues I was having was not rolling off the woofer steep enough. I had less luck with the 29TTF and the DXT. 

I am holding out hope for better AMT's.  The Mundorf is a bit pricy for me  ($1400/pair) just to play with and I have never heard one well done or seen any distortion measurements. I(distortion vs freq and spl)  Dispersion is kind of an issue with them, but that can be dealt with. The SB is a lot cheaper, but again, neither heard or seen measurements and not pocket change.  

I keep hoping for a 90 dB efficient midrange that can go 400 to 4K.  There was a lot to be said for the old "decade" monkey coffins. 40-400, 400-4K, 4K up.  The new SB "filler" dome may have some possibilities. 

Actually, depending on how the SB's work out, I am half tempted to just buy some Sonas Faber Lumina IIs, sell all my lab stuff and give Komiko woodworking a try. 

If using a DEQX, then you might as well by your speakers at K-Mart. :)  Yea, I had one.  Great for a PA system. Not HI-FI.  Not even HT.  The last thing I want to do to my stereo is add a $2 A2D and D2A in the chain with Op-Amps worse than 5558's and electrolytic caps even if the DSP was half decent. Now, setting up for a small band in some unknown club, I would not be without one.  Never done a stadium so don't know about that. 

I get the comments on very high sound pressure, but as I like my hearing to remain in tact, I do not consider that part of HI-FI.  My humble stand mount 6 inch 2-ways can exceed permeant hearing damage thank you.  One can do a DeApolitto MTM and reduce upper bass distortion at "Who concert" levels but at higher SPL, you can't hear the difference and if you play that loud, you just can't hear any more. 

PA is of course a totally different animal where the problems of multiple driver comb filtering are overshadowed by getting the sound to the back of the room. ( Line arrays of those nice  JBL's and compression horns)   I don't think the markup is PA is as high as residential. Neither is fidelity. I agree, separate the adults from boys. Adults know better than to use PA systems in small rooms. We all did that as boys of course. 

I also get what you are saying if you are replicating some ego-prestige all-in-the-name bragging rights like WAMM though I think you should look at that it takes to design and build such a monstrosity. ( I am not a fan having heard most of their line over the years starting with Watt/Puppies. )    But, do you think you can out-do ELAC on a D6.1?  Can you equal a Dynaudio Special 40, Focal, Sonas Faber, Even a Kef R3?  Size and price real people can pay?   

Now we have increasing direct sales cutting out the importer, distributor and retail chain. ( we still pay that on components)  So the equivalent cost is about half of the traditional chain. They do have to cover the cost of returns though.  An example may be Taylor who puts together a seeming well worked out SB 2-way quite reasonably. If you want to touch entry level as cheap as possible, then a flat-pack CSS kit and a can of spray paint is far cheaper than even direct sales for similar quality and the design work is done. Just glue it together. Some of the Bagby  or Zaph designed kits are not bad.  GR has kits. I don't really consider a kit the same as DIY.  It is just slapping together some one else's work.  

I have pictures, but not sure how to post.  The control ribbon asks for a URL. Other forums give the option for a local file. I want to imbed, not link. 

Here is my simple desk, the first system NOT to have any edge to Joni Mitchel, Judy Collins etc. It plays plenty loud with the 2W.  I stuck a 1 1/4 fan on the Schiit heat sink. Totally silent and it dropped the temp over 20 degrees. 

PC, JRiver, wasapi exclusive, asynchronous, with -3 dB gain, 100ms buffer. I use the JRiver eq to tame a 115Hz mode. No other eq. 

JDS Atom+ stack.  Schiit REKKR amp and my own Dayton RS/VIfa speakers, Dayton 8 inch sup and plate.  I have .22uF caps in the lines going to the Rekkr. 

I use a USB controlled relay to power on the audio stack. 

Main system has my workshop Elacs as I am in the process of painting my main speakers (Seas ER18/SBs)  Amp is an old Hafler chassis with my own MOSFET amp in it. Same combo for the music server but testing the Topping DX3pro plus right now.  JDS I think is smoother, My Asgard not quite. I use an Emotiva DC blocker as I had DC issues when I had a Parasound amp with a toroid transformer, a Pyle sequencer controlled by the PC USB to power on and off everything. O-Audio amp.  The chest in the picture is the sub. I had to give the matching one away as there was just no room for it, but doing REW and True64 tests, my bass is not a problem so no eq needed. Focal 906's should get here tomorrow as they measure well but were strange in the only shop that has them. Something was funny so I ordered a pair while they are less than half price. ( being replaced maybe?) I suspect I can beat them as they have metal domes which I basically don;t like, but execution is everything so giving them a try. The only speakers in a store that actually impressed me are the Lumina IIs. A lot were quick "NO!" I was listening to any bookshelf under 5K. 

I do nothing exotic with cables. Short as possible, twist the zip cord etc. Just decent as all that esoteric stuff if it has any positive effect, is above my hearing. ( Some is worse and I can hear that) 

My third system is HT. Anthem AVR, more Dayton/Seas speakers as wall plates. Panasonic 4K player.  In the shop I use the Elac's with an old Kenwood tuner and the Fosi V3. Makes noise. 

In my last house, I had my morning system, a Creek integrated, Kenwood tuner, and older Boston in-wall speakers. 

I have sold off my pile of of stuff I was not using. Trying to clear out anything we have not used in 5 years. I am sure when finished fooling with DACs, I'll have several. Sold off my Rotels, Parasounds, Denons, Haflers and DIY amps.  Denon, Rotel, Sony, OPPO players.  Dumped all the Berhringer, Rolls, DBX stuff. APT, Hafler, Nakamichi, DIY preamps. All my tube stuff.