The mistake armchair speaker snobs make too often


Recently read the comments, briefly, on the Stereophile review of a very interesting speaker. I say it’s interesting because the designers put together two brands I really like together: Mundorf and Scanspeak. I use the same brands in my living room and love the results.

Unfortunately, using off-the-shelf drivers, no matter how well performing, immediately gets arm chair speaker critics, who can’t actually build speakers themselves, and wouldn’t like it if they could, trying to evaluate the speaker based on parts.

First, these critics are 100% never actually going to make a pair of speakers. They only buy name brands. Next, they don’t get how expensive it is to run a retail business.

A speaker maker has to sell a pair of speakers for at least 10x what the drivers cost. I’m sorry but the math of getting a speaker out the door, and getting a retailer to make space for it, plus service overhead, yada yada, means you simply cannot sell a speaker for parts cost. Same for everything on earth.

The last mistake, and this is a doozy, is that the same critics who insist on only custom, in-house drivers, are paying for even cheaper drivers!

I hope you are all sitting down, but big speaker brand names who make their drivers 100% in house sell the speakers for 20x or more of the actual driver cost.

Why do these same speaker snobs keep their mouth shut about name brands but try to take apart small time, efficient builders? Because they can.  The biggest advantage that in-house drivers gives you is that the riff raft ( this is a joke on an old A'gon post which misspelled riff raff) stays silent.  If you are sitting there pricing speakers out on parts cost, shut up and build something, then go sell it.

erik_squires

Showing 5 responses by mahgister

You are wrong again... Sorry...

Immersiveness is an acoustic concept which is in the reach of two speakers system not only theater system and defined by the ratio between listener envelopment ASW/LV and the sound sources holographic volume ratio ...

Acoustic is key in audio not the gear....With the Dr. Choueri BACCH filter it could be very easy to attain complete immersiveness by the way with headphone or any stereo speakers...

 

My headphone are in their own specfically headphone way "immersive" as was my two speakers/room...( not my actual cheap speakers/basement corner , here i enjoy imaging but not immersiveness for sure, i could not tune resonators there to modify the pressure zone distribution this is why immersiveness is not possible in my basement only a good imaging )

This means that i as a listener i feel as if i was among the musicians on the musical scene with the musicians around me , it is recording dependent for sure... With organ Bach music and Marie Claire Alain recording for example i am as a listener in a church, no more in my room , and the headphone soundfield is "out of my head" ... In my acoustic room it was like that but not as much precise because of my speakers specs limitations which were less performative than my hybrid top headphone now...

By the way it was very hard to find a set of headphone able to do that and optimize it, it takes me 6 months... With the headphone it was necessary to use electronical equalization too by the way to go nearer the Harman curve , the mechanical equalization was done already internally by the designer with a grid of 5 Helmholtz resonators 😊 the AKG K340 is vastly misunderstood, their internal shell is a masterpiece of acoustic and their genius designer was a physicist founder of AKG ...

Immersive sound? Do you sit in the center of a band or orchestra? Immersive sound is for theater use. My system does double for theater use but I am not willing to compromise it’s 2 channel performance

i am with you for your saying about center channel...😊

 

But you are wrong here because you focus too much on gear and electronic equalization... Not enough on room acoustic ...

You can get a fine two dimensional image out of a poor sounding system but you can not get a good three dimensional image out of a poor sounding system.

An IDEAL timbre experience need a minimally sophisticated set of components...Not only acoustic passive and active mechanical control, even electronical equalization is not enough here ...here we are dependent of the gear quality first ...

But to create a good imaging with holographic effect is possible with 100 bucks speakers... Using acoustic and some tweaks to optimize the speakers response : damping and isolation...

I just made yesterday my M-audio self powered cheap box speakers imaging with depth /front/back and beside the speakers if the recording is well chosen ... the soundfield is not coming from the speakers or the imaging is not in the plane between the speakers but develop his own holographic 3-d volume...

I cannot improve timbre passed some treshold of quality dictated by the specs limitations of these low cost speakers for sure ... But imaging i can ... 😊

Acoustic cannot change the gear specs but can create imaging easily and way more easily than improving the timbre perception which need some higher gear quality level ...

I did not even use resonators here as in my past acoustic room... I am in a basement corner😁 ... Just the right balance between reflection/absorption/diffusion...

My main system is now by fate : top headphone...

But i used my low cost speakers with success... Imaging matter for me... Then...

I listen Albinoni oboe concertos right now.... It is a minimalistic audiophile experience with cheap good speakers... I even have minimal bass.... It is true that these cheap speakers were minimally "good" , i bought them after reading reviews 12 years ago... They never sound as good as right now because i never bother to organize acoustic for them before...

 

I am suprized that nobody mention Dr. Choueri BACCH filters...

Nobody needs multi channels system...

With the BACCH filter with no lost in TIMBRE , we can have complete holographic  virtual room system representation for our SPECIFIC ears with a stereo system , speakers or/and  headphones with no difference between speakers and headphone listening in perception...

Think about it and inform yourself...😊

 

Interesting...

It seems the cost of research and parts and all expenses related to speakers design is a way more complex business than most imagine...Thanks to the OP for his explanation being himself a designer...

"speakers snobs" ...I like the expression...