The Jico SAS/B Stylus VN 5 MR

Original V15Vxmr cantilever was Beryllium, the lightest/stiffest/ (but brittle, I broke mine), on my TD124 heavy platter, the best bass I ever had, and tracked at 1.25g, which is why I consider 2.0g ’heavy’.

The Top Shure's each came with their test performance graph, similar to what I got with the Sumiko Talisman S I bought for it's stiff Sapphire Tube cantilever.

The Bass, 3 lp set, excellent listening as well as demo collection

After shattering the Beryllium, I go no stiffer than Boron these days, and yes, my V15Vxmr body with Jico SAS on Boron sounds darn good,

the Shure Stylus’s Brush (use up or down, add 0.5g in use, it pushes up 0.5g) is damped, the Jico Brush is just a brush, no damping, they do not give you precise calculations for tracking with it up or down).

Using the Jico brush, how do you measure and what tracking force do you use ______?

Using the blank side of an LP to ’see/set’ anti-skate as you adjust for it is even more important when using a brush. The needed anti-skating force with brush in play is a hint as to the actual tracking force you are getting.

In my office, same era, I am rotating/using AT-440ml, (aluminum cantilever) tracking at 1.4g. Their current AT540ml tracks at 2.0g. No brush on the ATs. The AT440 is similar to the sound of the Shure but I convinced myself the Shure had more bass.

I got clever, bought a Shure 97xe (my favorite Elliptical) with a damped brush. Had Steve at VAS re-fit it with an advanced stylus on boron. Now I am the only person I have heard of with 97xe with an advanced stylus. AND, it fits my Shure V15Vxmr body! Thus I can have a damped brush on either V15Vxmr body or 97xe body.

mijostyn OP

"As for the Jico brush it certainly is damped and they tell you to add 1/2 gram when using it. I am not using it because in my arm it is not needed. I am thinking of removing it entirely."

I wrote JICO after I received mine, they replied, in writing (where?), that it was not damped. Perhaps things have changed, do you have something from them, or a link to something? I like a damped brush for LPs with warps, and in the old days at 1.25g, assurance an 1812 canon blast would not send it flying.

in 2020

"

V15Vx bodies are hard to find, V15V bodies a bit easier, upgrading a M97xe body is an option, get an advanced stylus shape on Shure’s optional use anti-static damped brush.

Jico makes a replacement stylus for Shure’s M97xe body, SAS on Boron with brush, just like the one for the V15Vxmr body mentioned here. It’s very close to the V15Vxmr performance and sound for less total money (body and stylus combined).

https://www.ebay.com/itm/326258191889?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338381866&toolid=10001&customid=2a9e2962-6c5d-11ef-914c-326235333437

The question/difference is Shure’s anti-static/damped brush and what Jico’s brush is/does regarding anti-static (they wrote me in 2020 not anti-static), and damping, (they wrote me unlike dynamic stabilizer).

My rebuild of broken 97xe shure stylus by Steve at VAS keeping Shure’s brush, luckily fits both my M97xe and V15Vxmr bodies.

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Imaging, Lighter Tracking

Sound is subjective, imaging specs are measurable, I only consider cartridges with high imaging specs, then sound preferred? (I think preferred, not better)

Differing magnet materials/designs: the achieved output is measurable/comparable, keep an eye on signal strength, the relationship of coil impedance, and, for some arms, keep an eye on cartridge weight,

light tracking performance combined with larger contact area relates to both groove tracing fidelity, groove life, and stylus life, the tracking force is applied to a much larger surface area when using an advanced stylus shape, and the advanced shapes get deeper into the grooves of used LPs, which need to be properly/vigorously cleaned

JICO contact surface specs, um2 (squared) whatever that is, are revealing by % comparison, indicate their S.A.S. is different than what AT says are all variations of Shibata’s patented shape: Shibata/Line Contact/Micro Linear

elliptical: 20.6 um2

Line Contact 46.7 um2 (more than twice the contact area of elliptical

S.A.S. 62.1 um2 (more than 3 times elliptical/50% more than Line Contact.

Soundsmith’s Stylus Life Expectancy chart is based on info from JICO, and the S.A.S. has the longest average life expectancy in the chart

Soundsmith Stylus Shape Info

Wear, Tear and Life

So we know that the more extreme line contacts reduce wear.... but what is the difference?

Apparently according to Jico (manufacturer of the highly regarded SAS stylus), the amount of playing time where a stylus will maintain its specified level of distortion at 15kHz is as follows:

• Spherical / Conical - 150hrs
• Elliptical - 250hrs
• Shibata/Line contact - 400hrs
• SAS/MicroRidge - 500hrs

This is not to say that at 500 hrs a SAS stylus is "worn out" - but at that stage the wear has reached the point where distortion at 15kHz surpasses the level specified by Jico for a new stylus. (Which I believe is 3%).

 

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my cartridges

AT33PTG/II Moving Coil MicroLinear on Boron tracks at 2.0g, has the best imaging specs: 30db channel separation/0.5db channel balance.

Sumiko Talisman S Moving Coil, line contact on sapphire tube: track 2.0g; also great/tightest imaging: sep 30db/0.5db bal

The Shure Moving Magnets track lighter, but slightly less imaging excellence:

V15Vxmr tracks 1.0g; sep 25db/bal 1.5db

97xe sep tracks 1.25g; 25db/bal 2.0db

Audio Technica Moving Magnets

AT440ml tracks 1.25g, sep 30db/bal 0.75db (use mostly in my office system)

current version AT540ml tracks at 2.0g; sep 28db; bal 1.0db

AT14Sa, shibata on tapered aluminum track 1.25g; sep 27db/bal 1.0db

ATTR485U Shibata/Line Contact tracks 1.25g; sep 31db/bal 1.0 db It’s a P Mount I use on a Sony Front Loading Drawer Type TT in my Garage/Shop system.

MONO

AT33PTG Mono, rebuilt stylus by Steve at VAS, now advanced large surface area stylus on boron tracks at 2.0g

Grado Mono Elliptical tracks at 1.5g

 

lewm

"Typically companies give a single data point for separation at 1kHz, where for most cartridges separation is maximal.  ... Anyway, that single data point is almost meaningless."

Quite meaningful when revealing what amount of maximum separation is achieved, or NON-ACHIEVED is how I use the numbers

the TIGHT channel balance is very important regarding imaging, lack of wander, and the overtones of the fundamentals are important.

Excerpt below from this

"Important frequencies

The important frequencies in non-tonal (Western) languages are illustrated by the diagram below. Here, the frequency band around 2 kHz is the most important frequency range regarding perceived intelligibility. Most consonants are found in this frequency band."


(Ref: N.R. French & J.C. Steinberg: Factors governing the intelligibility of speech sounds. JASA vol. 19, No 1, 1947).

 

 

search ’headshell weight’, options exist to make the headshell end heavier, thus use ’too large’ counterweight

another solution, if your’s is removable, it to use a heavier headshell with a lighter cartridge

some headshells have adjustable azimuth, and open sides for access

mijostyn OP

"The Jico diamond is not near the highest quality. It is full of contamination (so bad it won’t pass light) which will increase the rate of wear."

I'm not defending Jico, but I am assuming their claims are essentially true.

Jico specs came with the Stylus: ..they say

"natural octahedral single-crystal diamond"

and theirs specifically "should last for approximately 500 playing hours (2-3 times as long as a standard diamond stylus)." **** note: they left out the word ’shape’, or ’elliptical’ ****** which they rate as 250 hours, they rate spherical/conical at 150 hours. They are comparing diamond shape, not diamond quality.

It’s only the tracing edge that matters correct? Are you saying a higher quality diamond’s edge will last a LOT longer, i.e. cost/life value?

Has any maker published higher quality/longer life documentation (not claims, proof of some sort)?

 

To my eyes, the MSL and Lyra are frighteningly sharp, the Ortofon Asymetrical offends my sense of balance, the Soundsmith and Sonic Lab give me most confidence, and at it's price, as you say, the contact portion of the Jico seems to be the best value while it is filthy inside.

I'd like to see photos of my Talisman S and AT33PTG/II for comparison.

The very idea of perfection in all dimensions, cut, polish, mount perfectly seems unachievable when you see these variations.

I can only trust they got it right, do my best job aligning, and listen.

 

I see