The Great Vinyl Debate


Vinyl record prices are out of control. Their quality is also lacking: Too many poor pressings and cheap packaging (paper sleeves and cheap card stock outer sleeves) don't justify the price. My question is why is this happening?

I refuse to buy re-issues when used originals can still be had cut from the original analog sources to those that love to search for them (I get that some folks don't care for hunting/waiting) and ultimatly find them.

The trouble I have is with the price of "new vinyl." It varies of course, but both indie and major label vinyl records are grossly over priced IMO. I have no qualms about supported an artist whatsoever, however the average price for LPs both single and double and box sets are outragous.

Labels, distributors et. al. appear to be taking advantage of an inflated/exaggerated supply and demand equilibrium more so these days than ever before. Why is this? Even tho I've been hearing and reading about the vinyl resurgance since 2007 and the plethora of other documents stating that it's on the rise - even that vinyl is killing the compact disc - only 3 people where I work have turntables (that includes me) but I'm the only one that actually listens to, and buys records. In my world, I don't see the resurgance at all. But I do see inflated record prices along the lines of $46 for double LPs and $35 dollars for single LPs! These aren't re-issue inflated prices either - these are new music prices. And most if not all don't include "free MP3 downloads" (who wants MP3's anyway?)

Perhaps the recording industry believes that if they have a customer base that will pay $2000 for one foot of power cord or $10K+ for turntables (sans tonearm and cartridge) - we won't balk at $30 150 gram records or multi-hundred dollar box sets.

I'm a music lover not a sucka. Hey music industry mad men I'm on to you - the revolution is now....
notec

Showing 10 responses by tzh21y

I hear ya. New vinyl is not really analog anyways. It is mostly digitally mastered. So, the question is why would I take a digital source, and try to convert it to analog? Seems silly to me. I like the old tape hiss of old recordings. Record cutting is also an art and very few know how to do it well. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I still listen to records but they are all older originals. They do sound great, but all suffer some from Inner groove distortion. No turntable, I do not care how much one pays for it will track the inner grooves as well as the first three songs or 3/4 of the record. Most of the music I listen to suffers from this because the last 1/4 of the record is where the most demanding passages of the record are. If you have an average quality pressing, the inner grooves will track even worse and sound like mush. It does not matter how good the alignment of the cartridge is, it is an inherent problem of the medium. You can try to get it as good as you can but it will never be perfect. I buy records for the quality of the first 3 tracks because it can be pretty amazing. The last track is almost always disappointing. I have heard some pretty good tables and at first I think it sounds great but then when I get used to it, it is still there. CD player are getting pretty good and I am now listening to more CD's than vinyl and I never though i would say that.
I expect the arm and cartridge to track the same throughout the record from the first track to the last and I have never heard that on any table I have heard regardless of cost. I am talking about $20,000,00 tables. It is better on these tables and the resolution on the first 3 songs is fantastic because of the incredible engineering that goes into the tonearm. You can try to convince yourself that it is tracking perfectly, but it is an inherent flaw in the designs of turntables and records. Many used records are damaged especially in the inner grooves which does not help either. I am also waiting for audio Blu-Ray which I have heard on video tracks and as it is phenomenal. Then I will have another version of my favorite albums. I must have 2 to 3 copies of some stuff. lol Right now my tonearm and cartridge tracks pretty good after a year of fiddling, but it is not perfect.
IME, the biggest contributor to tracking error is the tonearm/Cartridge combination. Alignment on my table is as good as it will get. I have the MintLP and it has greatly aided in my alignment. However, I think a great tonearm is needed to take it to the next level and still I have not heard a table/cart/tonearm combo track a record perfect. Don't get me wrong, I love vinyl, but I have become disenchanted that after a year of screwing around, I still cannot get it right. I have tried everything and talked to everybody regarding this issue and spent countless hours aligning my table. I will not believe it until I hear it for myself.
Koegz, I can only go by what I hear and have heard and I have heard quite a bit in the last 25 years. If I am wrong, why do they make newer records with tracks only to about 75% of the record surface? I have been at it for over a year and I still have not figured it or heard it to this day. Don't get me wrong, I love vinyl, the decay and the naturalness of the sound. It cannot be beat, for the first 75% of the record surface, then inevitably, stuff starts to happen. It is called physics. You have a great setup and I have never heard a Walker. Maybe if i did, I would change my mind. I do know what I hear and I am not just talking about my table. So what you are saying is that nobody in any of the audio shops I have been in know how to set up a table. I cannot remember ever hearing a table without some deterioration in sound as the stylus moved across the record and the closer to the spindle, the more the deterioration in sound quality. Maybe I hear different than you. That is my experience.
Audiofeil, I do not disagree with your comment regarding my table, but I hoestly cannot remember listening to a table that was set up to the point where there was no degradation in sound. I have heard a few that I could certainly live with, but they were not perfect either. That has been my experience. If it is possible, I would love to hear it.
Koegz, what question is it that you are referring to? It seems like I hit a nerve with you which is unfortunate. All I can say is I hope to God that your Walker tracks much better than what I have heard listening to music in this hobby of ours. It seems like if that is what it takes, something of that cost to do the job, linear tracking and all, then many of us probably should stick to Cds or be satisfied with the first 3 songs of an LP. You should not have to be a hi fi engineer to set up a table. I am sure you just about have to be close one to set up your table.

Don't make it sound like I do not know what I hear. I bet there are many that read these threads that can identify with me as well as yourself. I know that I certainly do not have equipment of the caliber that you have. You do have a great setup. I guess I just expected a little more from my table. It was after I started listening to my table that I really started to hear the tracking error in more expensive tables. The one table that I did hear that was pretty decent was a Basis but even that was not perfect to my ears either. It tracked great, but it certainly was not the same at the end as it was in the beginning of the side. It did sound great though, something I could probably live with, still fairly expensive. CDS are sounding much better, even to the point that many are selling off their analog gear. I am not to that point as I can hear the difference, I just wish it was better and did not take $$$$$$ of analog gear to do the trick.
I have never used or heard a linear arm but I have heard that they track much better than pivot arms. I have also read that they are a pain. Why is that?

Also, is there an audible difference in fidelity with regards to outer grooves and inner grooves? I have read that even if you can get the table/tonearm/cartridge/stylus to track a record perfectly that there is an audible difference in fidelity regarding the inner /outer grooves. I have never really made it beyond the inner groove distortion to be able to clearly hear the audible difference in outer and inner grooves. I just know that the records I listen to do not sound uniform as they get to the inner grooves. They sound great to about the end of the 3rd song usually based on 4 songs on a side, always deteriorating as the tonearm tracks across the record. I have been thinking of getting a new cartridge with low output and a better phono pre but I am trying to justify the expense. As I eluded to earlier, a Walker table with a linear tracking arm is probably getting close to as good as it gets in LP playback. It is just not in the realm of possibility for me.