The future of preamps

@ Almarg, Hi, Thankyou very much, I have enjoyed your help, I know who to look up for all things audio now, I hope you do not mind if I ever needed some help, I may be able to ask you for it, Happy Holidays.

@ Almarg, Hi, I am sorry, I did not mention my source of info was from krell, when we were dicussing the input sensativity of the krell 700cx, the 18 volts is max, that is never used!, the amp gets 6 to 8 volts,pending what model krell pre-amp being used, that has nothing to do with cast, thats balanced!, then I was saying a source componet with a real analog or transformer based volume control running direct to amp has the performance I mentioned above, not the digital volume control that likly will do bit stripping of the signal!, and if you actually have a very high quality pre-amp that has the transparency of a direct to amp source componet has?, thats likly due to the gain that pre-amps have, you hear more information, more sound, sometimes, more dynamics, pending on the pre-amp used, not really more transparency!,

An example of what I am saying about a source direct to amp was wadia, just one of the few that actually works better used direct to an amp versus a pre-amp, I will indeed miss wadia!, cheers gentleman.

@ Grannyring, Hi Thanks, I read alot of your post in the past, I give you alot of the credit for the reasons I am willing to look into active preamps, I enjoy your vast exsperience that you have tried all forms to drive a amplifier to conclude useing a particular active preamp of your choice is best to your ears and system, Are you still useing the Dude preamp?

@ Atmasphere, Hi, Who told you that 4 volts was to much for an amplifier?,, LOL!, Nearly all pre-amps output to an amp is way more than 4-volts, an example of what I am saying is, My krell 700cx amplifier min sensativity is 3.5 volts input, in other words, if you do not have atleast the 3.5 volts, the amp is not being driven correctly, the krell 700 cx amp input max is 18 volts!, then you have every krell pre-amp ever made that puts out 8 to 12 volts to to the amps, I have personally talked to krell about this issue, they ex-plained the input specs of my amp, because I was under the impression that the 3.5 volts was max, turns out to be the minimum!, most digital cd-players and dacs do not have enough volts out-put to drive amps to their potential, and then you have bit stripping of the sound quality if you have a pure digital volume control at low volumes, on the bright side, a digital componet running direct to amp with a analog volume control, or a transformer based volume control yeilds way more transparency than most pre-amps could ever do in alot of systems, your signal does not have to go thru another chip board, there is some pre-amps out there that can give you all that you want for sound, very few can surpass running direct to amp, the pre-amps that can are very exspensive!, cheers.

@ Isochronism, Hi, LOl!, Its about time you came out and posted some where, good to see you., BTw, your pre-amp retailed around $14,000.00, It better sound good!, Happy listening.

@ Atmasphere, Hi, what are you talking about?, I am talking about the voltage out-put of a pre-amp of the signal to the amp, There is no way that 2 volts will drive my Krell 700cx correctly, the input sensativity is 3.58 volts min!!, all the krell pre-amps ever made put out more volts than that!, call Krell, I can tell you that with confidence!, the 18 volts was a given spec before clipping with the krell 700cx amp.,,BTw, I have used over a period of time, a source componet with analog 2.5 volts out-put direct to amp!, Thats funny!, the amp sounded like it was at half volume compaired to useing a pre-amp by anybody!, that BTw, do more than 2 volts out-put, I also understand the gain a pre-amp can give as well, LOL!

@ Atmasphere, Hi, I do apoligize for my post, However, I am correct with the pre-amps of krell, I am only saying what they told me on phone, on their site, it only gives out put over load specs of all the current pre-amps of 8 to 16 volts out-put, regarless, because of the gain a pre-amp gives, I believe I need a pre-amp to drive my Krell 700cx to full capacity!, I enjoy your post, and appreciate your input here,I run balanced, so the 16 volts out-put is over load, thats why krell told me pending on an older pre-amp or newer, 6 to 8 volts out-put is the norm for a krell pre-amp balanced out put, thankyou.

@ Atmasphere, Hi, your name would not happen to be Ralph would it?, Are you in relation to the atmas-phere audio company?, pending on the answers here, if you are, I do have many questions I hope you take the time to help me with., cheers.

@ swampwalker, Hi, sorry my post did not meet your standards of puntuations, LOL!,, never knew I needed to be thorough!, It's ok, I do not care to be so thorough with posting on a thread, of course If I were writting a book to make money, I would care to do better!, You gave me a good laugh, I needed that, Happy Holidays to you.

@ Atmasphere, Hi good to meet you, I took a peek at your products, impressive to say the least!, for some crazy reason my friend here, jmcgrogan2 believes I am in over my head, I suppose he does not know me enough to make that call, as far as the 3.58 volts min to input of my krell 700cx, I will again call krell and talk to Ray Munchler, the service manager to confirm if that spec is min or max input spec, I have had this conversation with him more than once, so I hope he does not think I have a bad memory! anybody can make a mistake, this is why I will ask for the third or fourth time, as I said, Ray said, the spec of 3.58 is what it takes to drive the amp, and it can take max of 18 volts to over load the input, I assumed the 3.58 was max spec too!, Thats when Ray munchler corrected me! another situation is that I cannot use typical tube pre-amps or sources direct to amp, or I would have to activate the coupling capacitors that are not active inside the amp to protect is from tube unstableness!, Its a direct coupled amp, a real one!, this is in my owners manual that I have, and Ray confirmed that as well, He also stated not to activate the coupling caps, they will degrade the performance of my amp, so he said make damn certain if you use a tube product, make sure it is designed to be able to work with the amp, he said they are out their, an example of what he says is this, a tube source with the tube buffers before transformer or transformers, in other words, the signal comes thru the transformers before out-put, now thats if I am useing a tube source with volume control direct to amp, not useing a pre-amp, I will post my findings from Ray here by tuesday, I do enjoy tube sound, so my question to you was, will any of your tube pre-amps work with this extrodinary amp?, Thankyou so much, Its a privelege to talk with you and an honor!

@ Almarg, Hi, I enjoy your input and post that I have read numerous times, I appreciate that you posted the krell 700cx specs, and explained them, kinda bailed me out here!I agree with what you are saying about the 700cx input spec, you said, sensitivity specs are usually niether min or max, they are simply the approximate input voltage required to drive the amp to its rated maximum output power. the miscommunication is here, when Krell said that 3.58 is min spec for input of the krell 700cx, that is the same as max input to be able to drive the amp to potential full power, however, the amp will take more voltage input into the amp that most pre-amps do for their out-put into the amp, and the 18 volts is the over load point to this amp to clip.,, Almarg, Can you look into this for me, the spec of 18 volts input to clip, this is the max input told to me over the phone by krell, you can do more of the math and engineering calcalating for me to find a explanation for me?, LOL!, I will never use over 10 volts to input anyway!, just currious to know my amp,, when I said that the 3.58 is the min that krell told me, they said that because all of their pre-amps put out around 6 to 8 volts for balanced operation, and this will not do nothing harmful to the krell 700cx, its the normal that I am told by krell if useing a krell pre-amp, regardless of the voltage input to drive the krell 700cx, I will not realize the power of this amp with out the speced gain you provided of the krell 700cx that a source direct to amp does not have, atleast I have not found a source with the gain I need to drive the krell 700cx, I enjoy the clarity a source direct to amp provides, but this is why I have said that the krell 700cx sounds to be half the volume its suppose to be, its still loud enough without the gain, LOL!, I just believe the amp will sound better with the appropriate db gain, do you believe that?, can you imagine the cost of a pre-amp that can do the clarity and realism a direct to amp source does with the gain I need?, thats a thought I do not like to entertain!, this is why I said, a pre-amp that would be to my liking would be very costly and you would have to provide more interconnects, in my case, very, very, exspensive, I use Taralabs zero gold, retail $14,500.00 new, around $5,000.00 to $8,000.00 used a meter balanced, yes, I bought My zero gold used, I am not that crazy to buy new, I do not agree with esoteric cabling pricing!, however, the I/C is worth what I paid used to me!, to keep the performance to my standards, I would want to buy another zero gold i/c for use with a pre-amp, there you have it, this entire conversation on this thread is a big deal to me$,, I have to be sure and carefull at the same time, this is why your input is most welcome to me, thankyou.

@ swampwalker, LOL!, I can see Almarg being an asset to us all, and called mr. spock!, we all need a mr.spock in this hobby!, thankyou for the introduction between us,I am not offended, there seemed to be a mis understanding here with what I was saying,I enjoy learning, no one knows it all, so far, I have not been corrected, misinterpreted, yes!, however, If I am wrong and corrected, I embrace it and enjoy being corrected, this is how I add to my exsperience, It would be quite foolish to do other wise!, I have never talked to you, good to meet you as well, I do require all of us to be gentleman, I do not believe someone is not a gentleman if they correct me or help me, and I hope all here does not believe if they do, they are not a gentleman, that is not the case for me, cheers.

@ Atmasphere, Thankyou for your reply,I will try to give you a phone call after new years to find out the closest place for me to hear your preamps and if you have documentation saying that your preamp will not emit Dc into a amplifier. Happy new year!

@ KngHiFi, Hi, Thanks, this is good to hear some success of useing tube preamps with some of the krell amps, I did have a bad exsperience once useing a tube source direct to amp, the source, as it turned out was emitting DC into the amp, thus throwing the amp into stand-by mode, I tested the source with a volt meter, yes, there the Dc was!, I am just tring to be careful here to not damage the amp in any kind of way, I also wanted you to know, I am a big fan of useing solid state amps with tube sources or preamps, I enjoy the tube magic, brings some musicality to my ears, instead of a two dimensional over resolving sound that I find strange that alot of people like, I do understand we all have our own preferances.

@ Phusis, Hi, Are you useing a 32 bit source direct to amp?

@ Atmasphere, Hi, Thankyou so much, It's hard to find something that may work with this crazy amp I have, I never told all of you here, I have the complete owners reference and more on my amp, all the specs that Almarg stated, I have in my hand now, and alot he did not list!, Ralph, The reference says this,,Dc protective circuitry- Full powered balanced amplifiers use unobtrusive direct current {D/c} protection circuitry that strips DC from the signal without corrupting sound reproduction. Full powered Balanced amplifiers feature direct coupled circuitry from input to output. This topology eliminates all coupling capacitors from the audio signal path. coupling capacitors block damaging DC but have sonic characteristics that corrupt sound reproduction., Useing A Tube Preamplifier,The high DC output of tube preamplifiers may exceed the DC protection circuitry of full powered balanced amplifiers. Excessive DC level in a signal can damage amplifiers, speakers, or both. The coupling capacitors in full powered balanced amplifiers must be engaged when useing a tube preamplifier, the none active coupling capacitors must be inserted into the signal path before you can use the Fpb amplifier with a tube preamplifier., ok, see what I am talking about, I do have to be careful, I do not want to use the coupling caps that will degrade my performance just to use a tube pre-amp, I do know they may make some that will work without going thru this, what is your thoughts on all this info?, It's an Honor to me that you have interest in tring to resolve some issues here for me, cheers.

Hi Jon2020, Didn't I buy a cable from you?, A Taralabs cobalt power cable, I was wondering if you are the same gentleman, I am quite happy with the sale if you are the gentleman that sold me the cable?, anyway, My assesment of running a source direct to amp is good, transparency and realism was quite spectacular!, However, I agree with you, I had a Krell 300I intergrated on a second system, I put the unit on the main system before I sold it to help finance buying the Tara zero gold, I did hear more information!, I was stunned to say the least, I am assuming this was because of the gain a pre-amp has?, thou the transparency was not matched or realism, It was quite enjoyable, now the thing is, can I possibly get both without a second morgage on the house?

Hi Charles1dad, I agree with your findings, At what cost will a pre-amp give us all of what I desire?, I know they have great pre-amps out there that can do it all! I am open to opinions, Have you tried a 32 bit resolution source componet to see if it works better?

@ Atmasphere, Thankyou, I am glad you told me that a tube pre-amp needs a coupling capacitor at the out-put to protect against DC, that was helpful info, cheers.

@ Atmasphere, Hi, If your preamp M-1 is direct coupled, what do you use to safe guard from DC exsposure if I attempted to use your product with the krell 700cx?

@ atmasphere, Hi, what is the Tube compliment to your M-1 preamplifier?, and how many?, and is the tubes in a buffer stage?, or the out-put stage?

@ atmasphere, Hi, man-o-man did I enjoy your post about passive and active preamps, I actually learned something there, LOL!, not to sound arragant, that is rare for me, I love it!, also, thankyou for taking your time to explain how your preamp protects from DC, I am interested in your products to audition one of your preamps at this point, I do need to tell you thou, I have ridden myself a long time ago of useing preamps period, I have used solid state and recently tubed source direct to amp with success since 1996!, I seen you mentioned cable control, and a roll off of the top and bottom bands of the sound, presatation etc.., I addressed this kind of problem in my opinion, by useing some of the best cables money can buy to use with source direct to amp, the presatation is extremly focused and the presatation is very large and well conceived, the most transparent, with realism of an actual musical event that I can possibly afford to buy, In regards to your product, I am hopeing preamps have changed over the years for the better, I have listened to preamps this year, I do hear more information, it's all there!, I have never heard better transparency and dynamics, with realism than a source direct to amp, and God knows I have heard alot of cost no object preamps in my time!, I am also intrigued by your preamp for the simple fact it may not allow Dc into my amp, and your preamp is direct coupled like my amp is, I believe your design and circuit will give more transparency than alot of preamps out there, I do not know when I am going to listen to your product, I do know that I am going to, I have been enjoying this thread, you make it very interesting to be able to learn of circuits etc..., we need Almarg back on this thread too, cheers and merry x-mas to all of you!

@ Jmcgrogan2, Hi, I have been to the Atmasphere site and looked at the m-1 two box preamp, It does not reveal the tube compliment or how many tubes that I could see, nor does the site tell me if the tubes are in a buffer stage or the out-put stage, maybe Ralph or Almarg could help with this set of questions?

@ charles1dad, Thanks, listening to the m-1 is #1 on my priority list of auditions of preamps, will you elaborate on the m-1's sound, please?, thankyou.

@ jmcgrogan2, Hi, opps, I see the tube compliment now, still need the other questions answered, wow!, thats alot of tubes!, 18 tubes!, I do not believe I have seen this many in a preamp before, hey, is this the tube 6sn7's you and pops rave about, of being the big sound of tubes? and, are the 12at7 tubes similair to the 12au7 and 12ax7 tubes that I do like?,thanks john.

@ charles1dad, Hi, Did you see how many tubes the m-1 has?, If its as clear sounding as it is made out to be, I would not want to go thru the exspense of tube rolling all those tubes, LOL!, for what reason would I do that if the preamp has the spookey clarity its claimed to have?, dude, thats a boat load of funds to tube roll this baby to the quality tubes of my choice if it was needed?, I had a tube source componet that was an ayon one time, and the tube choice that I wanted was $1,200.00 for 4 tubes!, LOL!, No, I did not get the tubes, but you get the point?

Ok, I see if I wanted a m-1 preamp with phono, The preamp has 18 tubes,the 12at7 tubes are for the phono,, and yes, Jmcgrogan2, the 6sn7 tubes are the ones you and pops claim to be the fat big sound of tubes!, without the phono in the preamp, I get 10 of the 6sn7 tubes, If I auditioned this preamp and liked it, bought it, etc.., I suppose I would have a similair tube sound that the both of you have with the preamps the two of you own. since I do not own not one record, or a turntable, even thou I love analog vinyl, that scenero would be stratisphere exspensive to achieve that set-up, cables, etc...I would only have a turntable that would match the quality of the preamp as well too!, man-o-man that would be exspensive, the line stage would be it for me, sorry john, I need a lottery hit to do this phono thing, LOl!

@ charles1dad, Thanks for your response, Hey, Did you hear tube magic when you listened to the m-1?, I ask this because, I have had 6h30 tubes before, LOL!, sounded to much like solid state than tube magic compaired to the 12au7 and 12ax7 tubes!, I like a little tubey sound, If a tube componet is so nuetral, whats the since in having the tube componet?, I would do solid state then.

@ Atmasphere, Hi, Just got my call back from krell, they said, If you have it in writting in your manual or other wise that your preamp will not emit Dc at all, its all good to protect my investment!, He did want to know what kind of volume control you use, He also said, If its the old school pot volume control, it would not matter since you have dither controls for the gain, He said I should be able to ajust to match the amp, he preffered discrete attenuator volume control, meaning, has digital support, they veard off from the usual pot volume control for better out come of sound, what say you?, thanks Ralph.

@ charles1dad, you are the man!, you hit the nail on the head when no one else could, when I said tube magic!, Tone, bloom,and 3- dimensionality is what I am emphasising here!, It is difficult to express what I am saying gentleman, I am sorry, bear with me, How would all of you here compair purity audio preamps to atmas-phere preamps?, I have a problem with 32 volts out-put, although Ralph has gain controls outside of the signal, I want to know if that is a control to the output volts, My amp is fully driven at 3.58 volts!, clipping is 18 volts, an explosion!, I am reffering to the m-1 preamp. merry christmas to all of you!

@ Charles1dad, Thankyou for your reply, I will take my time with the quest for a preamp, Hey, The only way to know what really sounds good these days is ask, I hope I did not frustrate nobody here, I do not trust pro reviews no more!, I find user word of mouth to give me the interest in a product, I understand there is different tast out there in what is good or not, and understand system dependency,instead of years of heart ache of tring this and that, I trust the audiogon community to give me a narrowed down foundation to start the quest, My system will take a long time to build, I started 4-2012, going on my 4th source as it is, It seems nothing is as it was made out to be after relying on pro reviews!, I am the type of audiophile that once I get this system done, and I'm satiesfied, I want to ride off into the sunset this time!, I care less whats better tomorrow, To me, A very good sound will never be absolete!

@ Knghifi, Hi, I am interested in Atmas-phere, I have a problem with 32 volts out-put for a 3.58 input sensativity!, You can re-read my 12-26 post to Georgelofi and understand why, other than that, I believe the M-1 is a fine designed product on paper!, It would be nice to match perfectly, cheers, Happy new year.

@ Georgelofi, Hi, I have never used passive preamp produts, so I cannot comment on them, However, I have never heard a active preamp to better a high quality,top sounding source direct connected to a amplifier!, I also agree, If the source can drive the amp to full out-put., there is very few sources that you can match the out-put to the in-put of the amp, an example of what I am saying is this, My amp is 3.58 volts to drive to potentual power, volume to the speakers, A source that out-puts 2.5 volts sounds great, But will not drive the amp to full power, Then on the flip side of useing a preamp, The statement Almarg said quote- "The 32 volts could be 1000 volts and you still would not have a problem". Yes I would!, I do not want a volume control to fully drive my amp on a clock value starting at 6am going to 3pm being the preamps full out-put, and making my amp fully driven at 8am!!!, That is not what I want to do!, I understand the concept of not putting the preamp in a bind for better sound quality, I once had a source back in 1997 that was direct to amp, the out-put volts was 3 volts, Then I had a Krell FPB 200, The in-put sensativity was 2.97,, This was perfect for me, then to top that off, I had some horn speakers that did 101 sensativity, man-o-man was that a great sound, that system was stolen from me by ex-wife when I was out of town!, I told you this because, I fully agree with the #2 statement you provided in your last post!, I also cannot get over the fact that the signal goes thru another circuit board before it gets to the amp!, It's funny how so many preamp makers are doing shortest path available for the signal inside their preamps,LOL!, mmmm, I wonder why?., regardless, I am willing to go and hear what the best available preamps can do these days, I traveled half the u.s.a. before in the late 90s giving seminairs on resonance control tunning and listening to all under the sun cost no object everything!, Preamps have never impressed me, now that so much time has gone by, I will see if they can match source direct connected to amps. cheers George.

@ Grannyring, Hi, It is my opinion, that to fully realize a source direct to amp, you have to match the source out-put volts to the amps in-put volts to get all of the desired sound and power from the amp, this is an aspect, many audiophiles do not achieve!

@ Grannyring, Wow!, You installed Duelund cast caps!, your preamp with all that you listed you done should be alot better sounding than the stock version?

@ Grannyring, Damn, you have the the most profound modified Dude preamp I know of, I imagine it sounds wonderful, did you tube roll to?, If so, to what tubes did you use?

@ Lacee, Great post, I agree with what you said, I to have had extensive exsperience with spectral equipment, I will say this much about spectral, very fast indeed and transparent, I could not find the full sound I enjoy with spectral, still good equipment, just not my tast in reproduction.

@ Almarg, Hi, I never said that preamp would not work with my amp, I'm saying a preamp that has much lower output will play lower levels of volume that I like, most source I use are 2.5 volts output to 5 volts output, you said, times that by 5, thats to much volume, I like to turn the volume control to full setting and still have a little head room to the amps power with no distortions or clipping, I have understood the both of you fully weeks ago!, I believe I was not understood, I do not want a preamp that cannot use all the volume control, LOl!, I enjoy music at times having a few to drink, maybe forget the volume, turn it up to full on the volume cotrol may propose problems for me, LOl!, I do thank you for all your help, and I have enjoyed talking with you and Ralph, maybe I may call Ralph after the new year, I find the both of you very interesting, Happy new year to the both of you gentleman.

@ Atmasphere, Hi, I am really interested in your preamp to audition, I called my friend Ray Munchler, the service manager at Krell today, He said he would research your m-1 and give me his thoughts on useing it with my Krell 700cx, I like your circuit you designed!, no coupling caps, no transformers, Like to hear that, I know Krell is bias to solid state, However, Ray is going to give me his honest opinion on the matter, I believe no one knows Krell like krell does, His concerns is DC!, He believes before looking at your m-1, I may have to activate the coupling caps in my amp to use it, I will not do that, this will indeed degrade my sound performance, formost, you have been very nice to me and patient, Thankyou so much, you are a real gentleman here, you have my respect, I will let you know what Ray believes, happy new year.

@ charles1dad, Hi, I like you as well, you are a gentleman, I am tring to sort all this out and hopefully accomplish a match for my amp, Its sad I have to be concerned with what I do here, being Krell is saying repeativily about tube preamps with my paticular amp.

@ Atmasphere, Hi, I agree with you 100%, However, Do you have in writting that DC will not enter my amp under no circumstances of what problems that may occur with useage over a number of years?, I can attest that most tube preamps will put out DC when their is a major failure of some sort, LOL!, some brands damage other componets with-in a preamplifier when only the tubes run amock!, not saying your products do that, I have read numerous horror stories of this, right here on audiogon!, Keep in mind, I have, and will still be using particular tube products, To elaborate on this matter further, I have personally have had a respected tube product before, that in no way was suppose to emit DC, IT DID!, I used a volt meter, there it was, my amp was shutting off into stand-by all the time!, I believe your products may not do this, its out there thou!, I also wanted to ask you what a audio signal would be on a volt meter, I'm thinking, VOLts!, not DC?, thanks Ralph, Happy new year!

@ Georgelofi, Thanks, you hit the nail on the head with your post!, I love tube products!, I am just repeating what the service manager said to me at krell, that does not in no way make me the idiot!!!, I have no idea why JWm would put such a poor comment on this thread!, Very un-gentleman LIKE and un- called for!, I feel that Ralph's pre-amp is one of the best, why would anyone think I said something bad about him or his pre-amp?, I HAVE NOT!, Thankyou Almarg, very good valid point of your post, kinda looks bad for krell to write such things, cheers.

@ Atmasphere, Hi, I have said numerous times thru-out this thread how I respect you and like your designs, I hope you set the record straight with JWm and others here, they need to re-read some post!, Ralph, I have had alot of bad things happen to me in audio recently I have not disclosed on this thread, I apoligize if I was mis-understood, these mishaps that I have been thru costed thousands of dollars!, I was in no way at fault for what has happened to me, I have had a $6,350.00 tube cd-player blow up with-in 90 days of new, I have had tube products emit DC, I had to totally renew my amp at Krell!, that costed me $3,150.00 dollars!,the amp just came back in october,2013, Its still in the krell box, The good thing however, Is the amp got caps that was not available in 2005, Krell claims it is a better 700cx then when it was first made in 2005 or better than any 700cx amp out there, Krell said that, not me!, Krell claims I have the first and only amp like this, so in the end, I hope you understand why I am so worried about my investments!, nothing personal at all directed to you, and I would never be a person to give you a bad tiime after a sale unless I have litterally the same problems listed on this post!, Highest regards to you Ralph, Thankyou.

@ charles1dad, Thankyou for your kind words, I look forward to listening to a atmasphere m-1 preamp and the other models down the preamp chain Ralph has, cheers.

@ Mapman, Thankyou for your post, I am glad you can see how I feel, seems like every few steps I have taken to build this system, I have had to take more backwards!, very frustrating!, I am almost back to where I started from in April 2012!, this is the year I hope it works out better, however, At the cost of what I am tring to do, It will take some time for me to finish the system., cheers.

@ mapman, All that happened to the Krell 700cx amp I have was not the amp's fault at all, thats a whole other story by its self, the amp was working when I sent it to krell, just not working correctly, as a matter of fact, It was amazing the amp was working, Krell makes some tough amps!, As far as componets go at this point, The Krell appeared to be the best quality out of all the other poor, over priced equipment I had bad exsperiences with., Happy Listening.

@ Isochronism, Hi Brett, Thankyou for your kind words, Happy new year.

@ Knghifi, Wow!, Is steve still with mccormack in virgina?, seems he has his own company, from what I researched, the preamp you referred is something I have never seen before, no gain!, very different from any thing!, Have you had the opportunity to listen to smc preamp?

@ Swampwalker, Hi, Thankyou, you and Knghifi and a few others here on this thread, these few are gentleman indeed!, Audiogon needs more members like all of you! I am grateful.