I was wondering when George would chime in. George thinks he knows what is wrong with class D and he lets us know constantly. However, the tide is already turned as witnessed by the every increasing posts of those that have dumped their class a and class a/b amps in favor or class D. George, please read this review of the brand new $8000 mono blocks from Nuprime and how they compare with all kind of amps. Only the $40,000 CH precision was more informative: https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/analog-reviews/amplifier-reviews/nuprime-evolution-one/ And this is just the beginning. We will soon have amps at even lower price points that are going to surprise everyone. Stay tuned......my amps are soon to be released. The switching frequency and even what output devices you use are only a small part of the story. Every single thing has to be done correctly or you lose the quality. My amps are using the latest Icepower modules (IceEdge) and switch at 500K......however, with the right massaging, they produce sound that is beyond my own designed class A amps....this is serious sound! Those who have heard the latest Class D know what is really happening. Those critics that have not heard the very latest are simply in the dark. |
PS Audio is using older IcePower technology modules (completely stock).....not the latest IceEdge. Because of this they have to add a buffer to color the sound to make it more acceptable. The output wires run to binding posts that are two inches long and have push on connectors on them......very not tweak. The IceEdge modules are far better sounding and with tweaks they sound amazing. Yes, PS Audio is behind on this one. I will be A/Bing my super tweaked dual mono IceEdge based amps with the BHK. We shall see what we get. |
So, if you believe "audiophile" fuses sound different and better than stock fuses, you are crazy? So you attack someone because they have a different belief than you? George, you are treading on thin ice here. You may get yourself banned for this kind of unkindness. I heard the distortions of fuses back in the mid 80s. This is not new. The latest fuses make a serious beneficial difference in a serious audio system. Anyone can hear the difference. Your class D or any other class of amp will sound better with Synergistic or Audio Magic Fuses. However, this is not a thread about fuses, but Class D amps and their future. I don't believe any Class D amp today is state of the art. Some of them are fantastic and better than other amps within their price range but we have lots to go in this dept. Just like digital it is a new medium so will take a while to mature. But in the last five years they have leaped from meh to OMG. However, even the coils and caps on the output of Class D amps imprint a sound. Most all coils used are just ordinary copper......If you make the coils from OCC wire and cryo them they will sound better. No one has done this. The caps in the output filters need to be world class or veiling will happen. These same caps on the output need their outside foil oriented to ground. No one is doing this....except me. The game in never ending. What is really cool about Class D is that you can get an incredible sounding amp right now for way less than those 100 lb. class A monsters, so you can spend more money on something else in you system that makes more difference (including better fuses in all your gear). |
George, You are acting more hysterical by the minute. How am I playing both sides of what fence? I clearly state that audiophile fuses are a good thing. No two sides here. The first two questions above were for you! Maybe you cannot read or comprehend well? I will not longer respond to you, George. There can be no conversation worthwhile with someone who only listens to himself. George, I wish you well, but to have friends you must play nice. A world with love and peace is what I create.....more and more. What do you want to create? Bless you, and may you find the higher love and light! Love yourself and everyone. We are all holy and beautiful....every single one of us. |
So funny and incorrect. All class D modules produced by the major companies 10 years ago are still available. Example: Here is the module that was sold in 2007 being sold now through Parts Express.... https://www.parts-express.com/icepower-1000asp-class-d-audio-amplifier-with-power-supply-module-1-x-...But why would you want to replace your module on your 10 year old $2000 amp when you can buy a brand new better sounding stereo amp for a little over $1000 delivered? There are guys buying super expensive class A amps right now that will be turning them around to get the latest new one in a year or so and lose $10,000 or more in the process. Some of the best sounding newest class D amps are so good and so cheap that you could just throw them away (or sell or give to your kids or use in secondary system, etc.) in a few years when a better one comes out. Never heard anyone cursing their inexpensive class D amp when it is no longer the latest thing. I think the rich guys do more cursing and also more straining.....lifting those beast of amps! I read a lot of reviews of the latest class a and a/b amps and it looks like the latest ones (and also getting more expensive every year as well) are really way better than those old amps that are 10 years old. All classes of amps are way better today than ever. Lets all sing along: "Who wants yesterdays papers?.....Who wants yesterdays amps?....nobody in the world" There are many class D amps out there.....some sound eh....some sound middling, some sound very good and some sound really great. Just like anything, you need to do your research and buy from someone who gives a trial period......but the same is true with any class of amp. |
George, Show me where it is stated that the Merrill uses higher than 500K for its switching frequency. In fact, Merrill stated (on this site) that higher frequencies for switching were harder to do. I hope Mr. Merrill steps in here and clears this up. What he seems to claim is that the zero dead time using GaNs plus his zero feedback circuit are what makes the great sound. Nuprime is using 700K in their latest amps and they are said to be making some very nice sounds.....also has 1meg input impedance and very trick power supplies with discrete front end. Their amps are using Mosfets on the output. The new IceEdge modules have "dead time compensation".....maybe that is why they sound so good. |
George makes up something untrue about Merrill amps and all he can do is say that whatever I say is biased because I am selling something. The truth comes from different places.....even from manufacturers. My amps will speak for themselves. If they are good, they will sell. Trust no one (neither George, nor me nor anyone). Trust your ears. Listen and decide. You cannot know anything about how something sounds without listening to it. Class D (and all classes) are getting better and better. Whatever you heard before is not what is best today. All class D amps have the switching noise superimposed on the audio signal. However, how much does a low level 500K sign wave affect the sound you hear? Pretty dang far out of the audio band. It does make sense to use a higher frequency so you can filter higher and have even less noise......but how much does it do audibly? Only those that have tried it know. All else is a guess. Personally, I believe it would make more difference to use better coils and caps on the output of the amps. Cryoed PCOCC inductors and super capacitors would give way better sound. No one is doing this. The future is bright indeed. Now, single speed DSD has a problem with noise, for sure. The noise at 50K is a lot and that can fold down into the audio band. I read somewhere that double speed DSD has 40db less noise at 50K (40db is 100X!!!). No wonder it sounds better. Quad speed is a little better yet. It will be at least 5 years before there is an absolute state of the art class D amp. There might? be something like that available now in class A in the AudioNet latest amps ($105K the pair)......or maybe the D'Agostino monsters ($250K the pair.....and 574lbs each). http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/raising-the-bar-a-preview-audionet-stern-preamplifier-and-heisenberg-monoblock-power-amplifiers/ |
I am glad you know what you like. However, you are just guessing. You have never heard class D......so what do you have to contribute here? Just the same old "I don’t like how they measure, so they must not be any good". The fact is, that many have abandoned their class A/B, class A and tube amps for class D amps. This is a fact. I would never say that class D is better than any other class.....but in the last 5 year it has matured to be an equal competitor. My own designed dual mono stereo 25 watt class A amp is very much like the Pass F5, except it uses dual differential pairs in the front end instead of just 2 jfets. The output stage is 3 parallel push pull mosfets and single feedback to the differential stage. 1.6 amps bias, only two resistors in series with the signal, DC coupled, no compensation, no current limiting, no binding posts (hardwired), 500 watt Plitron transformer for each channel, tons of power supply caps bypassed with modded Wimas, PCOCC wiring, damping of heatsinks and boards, no steel plates on transformers, no fuse, etc, etc. It sounds really, really great. But my modded IceEdge modules sound better. Now I am rebuilding the class A amp so it is in two chassis (the power transformers were interacting and to close to the circuit) and using even better resistors and wire and hopefully it now can compete or even beat my class D amp. We shall see. However, I could never produce the amp as it has no protection and who wants a 25 watt class A amp when you can get a 600 watt amp that sounds as good for less money and uses little heat and has an output impedance under 10 milliohm and input impedance of 150K!?! If you go to Audio circle and go to the Nuprime circle and click on the thread on the Evolution One amps you will find a link to a review of their amp on Hifi-advice that is an interesting look at class D and its history. For some reason I cannot put here the link to the review. Worth reading.
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Have you guys seen the AGD Gantube monoblocks?.....way cool! Check it out. Gans in a tube with 768K switching frequency. $15000 the pair. AGD production dot com. Rave review on Positive feedback. |
As good as the NC400 module measures it does not sound as good as the slightly less good measuring IceEdge 1200 module. And this is with the output caps in the NC400 changed to much better sounding modded and correctly oriented Wima caps versus a completely stock IceEdge. https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154910.500 See post # 509 |
Oversimplification is usually done by those who have had very little hands on tweaking of amps. I have been designing, modding and tweaking amps, etc. since the late 1970s. When you realize that every single part and execution effects the sound then just going after one measurement or whatever is just plain wrong. Most all of the class D amps till now have switching around 500K........and most use the same type of filtering on the output. However, they all sound different, including the highs. The Merrill probably switches at 500K yet no one says the highs are not great......same with this IceEdge amp.....super clean highs.....and same filtering. Other amps using the same 500K and same filter sound strident or rolled off or compressed in the highs......because there are so many factors that effect the sound. It is not one thing. It is not just the filter effects, it is not just the distortion measurements....it is hundreds of things that make the sound. I am not against wider bandwidth, GaNs, and better distortion figures. But these things will not bring state of the art sound by themselves. For instance, the stock IceEdge modules sounded OK when I first listened to it (all hardwired, no connectors)......but when I changed the fuse to a serious audiophile fuse I said.....Oh Wow....this amp really is good. Want to blow your mind? Damp the heatsinks on your big Class A transistor amps. If you run your fingernail along the heatsink and they sing, then you are adding that sound into the amp. Every person who has done this has heard the same thing.....way less "transistor" sound......which, of course, was really heatsink vibration sound being superimposed on the signal. My Class D amps will have every panel and the modules constrained layer or multiple layer damped. |
It is always best to have dual mono......so here is a link to a review from a person that owned the mono Nord one up amps (with the Sonic Imagery op amps) and then bought two stereo amps with the IceEdge 1200AS2 modules in them and then ran each amp as a mono block.....so now we have a fair comparison (fully mono in each case). He says which one he prefers. https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=154910.80 Post #97 And this is with stock IceEdge modules implemented in a normal way. Imagine how much better it could sound with tweaked modules and tweaked execution.......stay tuned......coming soon. |
I hereby nominate Koost and George for the Negative Nelly award for incredible Class D bashing. Who do you think will get the award? He who repeats himself the most wins....don't you think? We need a little humor in these times. Trouble is these guys are serious. To bad, life is really, really amazing. Audio just keeps getting better and better and class D has made it more affordable and more efficient. I just wish these guys would get out and listen to the latest and best class D amps (including those that switch at 500K and use mosfets). Some great sound out there on the cheap.....as many have already posted here and it will just keep growing and growing. May all be blessed in this new year! Enjoy every moment, for you never know when your time is up. The more you bless and serve others the more happy you and everyone become. Love everyone, love yourself, the earth and be at peace. God's love and joy are always present. |
Tweak1, The person in the thread bought two stereo amps and is using them as monos. He did not A/B using one stereo amp versus mono (however. I have and it is not close....you want dual mono IceEdge). He just listened to dual mono. However, since the Hypex modules are dual mono it makes it a fairer evaluation. Basically he is saying that his dual mono stock IceEdge amps beat the dual mono Nord one up mono blocks (with Sonic Imagery op amps). |
