Rzemkoski: TEHO, but thanks for looking... |
Sean, the only stuff I have is on CD, but you could check out www.flaminglips.com for more info. If you like, mail me and I can burn you a little comp disk so you can see if you'd be interested in hearing or buying more.
I find it interesting that Phild and Kthomas both think "Bulletin" is too samey-sounding compared to "Yoshimi" - I thought TSB was a bit all over the map and disjointed as an album (although the alternate remixes included don't help the flow), whereas YBTPR sounds more streamlined and of a piece to me (if slightly less distinctive). I initially found TSB incredibly exciting when I first heard it at the time it was released, but YBTPR disappointed me straight out of the box, then grew on me steadily over a couple of weeks, until it finally hit me like a ton of bricks. Both marvelously high-quality pieces of (hard) work, both indispensable. |
Centurymantra: Glad you could pop into the thread to share those great stories. I wish I could say I was down with The Lips back when, but they actually came out right about the time I had begun to tire of what was left from the indie movement's beginning and peak eras, and had started to pay less attention to upcoming artists. In my hometown of DC, the harDCore scene had thoroughly played itself out by then, I wasn't at all convinced by its 'emo-core' extension (e.g. Fugazi), most bands that had really made a go of coming up with something new based on the spirit of 60's garage and psychedelia had already had their heyday - as had most of the quality post-punk and post-new-wave bands that weren't hardcore, and my favorite rock'n'roll band in the world, The Replacements, was in decline. What new stuff I checked out generally sounded rather second- or third-hand to me (it seems funny to say that now, after what we've seen and heard in the 90's), and I basically concluded that the bands most worth continuing with were the ones whose roots extended back to the movement's golden days. Besides a lot of my favorite bands having broken up, I wasn't in school anymore, had to work a lot, and just didn't get exposed to as much new material or go to as many shows as I used to. I remember hearing positve things about this band called The Flaming Lips, but somehow managed never to actually hear them in the 80's that I can remember. So my first real exposure came when most people's did, with the left-field radio success of "She Don't Use Jelly". 'Modern Rock' or 'Alternative' hadn't really been codified into a restricted radio format at that point, so stations that played post-punk music still would spin some older stuff as well and I still listened in the car, and I remember thinking at the time that "Jelly" sounded much more to my liking than most of the then-current Nirvana-era crop. I intended to try and follow up on The Lips, but never actually got around to it until they released the "Clouds Taste Metallic" LP, and even then I didn't actually buy the CD until around the time of "The Soft Bulletin", despite my having made mental notes for years about being sure to check them out - don't ask me why. Since then, of course, I've been making up for lost time, but have only seen them live twice, both with the current line-up and show - once on the TSB tour, once this past fall.
My girlfriend, on the other hand, had her own unique live Lips experience. Before we ever met, she was living in Portland, Maine, and sort of accidentally caught a show in about '86 by the original 3-piece band, just because she and her then-boyfriend had thought the band name sounded cool and decided to check 'em out sound-unheard. It turned out that they were the only two patrons in the bar/club where The Lips played who had come down to see the band - the only others were a few drunk fishermen at the bar. As it happened, their style of music at that time was not the kind that was (or is) to her liking, but nevertherless she and her boyfriend were so impressed by the band's attitude and energy - especially considering that just two people had shown up for a gig so far from home - and felt that they were simply so good at what they did, that she really wound up liking it in spite of herself. The two of them also chatted with the guys in the band, and found them to be exceptionally pleasant and down-to-earth people, good in mood even though they had to be losing money on the evening. Years later, when I began playing The Lips a lot around the house, she never seemed to cotton to them much, although she guessed some of it was okay. Finally, when I went to see them this past September (up in Philly at a large outdoor amphitheater/arts park facility on the Unlimited Sunshine multi-band tour), I insisted that I buy her a ticket and bring her along, ignoring her feeble protestations. Although the band was in fine form (or whatever constitutes playing a good show for a band whose current material is so complex as to require that at least half of what you hear be played back from hard-disk drives which accompany the performers, all synchronized with a video film show), I wasn't as involved as I had been the first time I saw them (though I enjoyed seeing the new YBTPR songs), probably just due to my having seen them before in an intimate small-club gig in Baltimore squeezed in among the sweaty throng, rather than with assigned seats in a huge outdoor theater. She however experienced an epiphany at that concert, as I looked next to me to see her singing along, mouthing words she had apparently picked up from my playing the records, and afterwards she just kept telling me how much better she liked seeing them live, and how "touched" she had found herself witnessing The Lips' performance of those songs and their lyrics. When we got into the car at the end of the night, she wanted to hear Lips CD's on the stereo, and when we were back home, promptly stole those CD's from out of my case and to this day is still playing them in her car everywhere she drives. |
Phasecorrect, I'm even a little older and fartier than you, and one of the main things about The Lips that impresses me so greatly is that they *have* managed to change so much, yet continue to take their work to new highs, over such a sustained period. Yeah, they'll never sound 'like that' again if you're a fan of their early days, but neither did The Beatles. From what I've been able to glean from a few band interviews, I think that even the founding members themselves are more than a little amazed at how far they've come. I like to think I know the genuine article when I hear it, and in The Lips case, I'm forced to pay attention as with no other band I know of today.
There are very few instances over the years where an artist or band with an established level of career excellence expands its sound to the degree that The Lips managed with "The Soft Bulletin" - records like The Beach Boys' "Pet Sounds", Marvin Gaye's "What's Going On?", or The Talking Heads' "Remain in Light" come to mind - and reach an even greater level of artistic achievement than before, and even fewer still that have then gone on to successfully capitalize on that achievement with their next record to the extent that I believe The Lips have with "Yoshimi Battles The Pink Robots".
I'm not saying that The Lips are better or more important than any of the artists I mentioned above, of course; just that when it comes to even striving for, much less actually grasping, that sort of an accomplishment today, they're about the only game in town - and the fact that such a thing can be done at all at this late date just blows me away. I admit that maybe if it were 20 or 30 years ago, they wouldn't seem so special to me, and that a big part of my assessment of their songwriting and record-making quality has a lot to do with the prolonged lack of new exposure to anything its equal (I'm a guy who believes that rock as an art form during its golden age basically finished dying by about the time that the CD and MTV began their ascent [not uncoincidentally]), but given the landscape today, can you really blame me for wanting go overboard when the opportunity presents itself?
As Wayne sings: "'Cause it's gettin' heavy/Well, I thought it was already as heavy as can be/Tell everybody waitin' for Superman/That they should try to hold on best they can/He hasn't dropped them forgot them or anything/It's just too heavy for Superman to lift". The Flaming Lips are trying, and they're succeeding against all odds if you ask me. :-) |
To begin with, I'm very glad to see some dissenting responses, or any response at all from some of those who may have looked at the thread before but not participated at first. (For those of you who haven't begun any threads of your own lately, our Audiogon is now most excellently providing its thread-heads with a running total of number of views, and we're talking 130 here so far, quite a revelation! - although that's dwarfed by the over 400 that my day-younger audio-oriented post has got.) I'm sure it's obvious to all that I wrote my post in such a way as try to engender some kind of response, be it in agreement or not. Picking The Flaming Lips as the topic not only declares what's on my heavy-rotation list these days, but it's also a way to start myself discussing a little more music and a little less audio-stuff around here, without attracting the typical boring 'audiophile-music' and AOR enthusiasts. (My apologies to the maybe 95% of you who might read this without responding [as I now realize], for whom that is exactly the reason why you stay out - it's cool, we'll still talk about gear some other time, just not female vocalists, radio dinosaurs, and soundtracks to bad movies, OK? Strictly classical and/or jazz lovers, please see the manager on your way out for a full refund with my compliments, though I can't imagine any have made it this far. :-) All the rest, feel free to pile on anytime.
All right, I'll address the less difficult stuff first:
Justin, I was using Pearl Jam as somewhat of a stand-in for all the post-Nirvana 'grunge' bands (such as Creed) who to this day seem to be able to sell a jazillion records based on nothing but conformity to an ethos of warmed-over 70's-ish sludge put underneath preposterously Fat Albert-pitched vocals and then call it 'alternative'. (BTW, Nirvana in truth bear almost no stylistic relation themselves to this unfortunate curse.) Although this lumbering crapola has lately been augmented by 'rap-rock' ripoffs such as Korn and Limp Bizkit and a flock of adenoidally-challenged 'punk-pop' wannabe's apparently inspired by the ghosts of The Ramones and The Buzzcocks (but not getting it at all) via the hapless Green Day, 'grunge' still manages to pack 'em in at the arenas among the tattoos'n'piercings kiddie set. For all their limitations (and I'm not a huge fan), Nirvana and prior Seattle bands like Mudhoney basically did actually approach rock from a punk perspective, whereas Pearl Jam were intent on going exactly where they got from the beginning, being consumately calculated and not revolutionaries at all, their dust-up with Ticketmaster notwithstanding.
As for Sonic Youth, I was a huge fan back before they became frozen in their tracks artistically (not that they can't still do some decent work), but didn't bring them (or the other bands I mentioned in that sentence) up in order to criticize their music, but to illustrate the difficulty that some great 'indie' bands who were given a chance to play in the majors - even with relative artistic freedom - had in making much of an impression on the wider audience, or in effectively moving their own artistic efforts foward beyond the point of signing up. The Lips seem not to be afflicted with this problem, instead taking the build-it-up-slowly approach that always seems to work out better in the long run - but that you almost never see in the industry any more - and still doing it completely on their own terms. Although they haven't gotten there yet, I think they have a much greater chance than the other remaining bands of their generation to break through sales-wise to listeners who may not know anything about the 80's underground, and though there will never be another Nirvana, neither will there be that kind of collateral damage if they can sort of just 'seep in' with some real quality work around the edges of radio or MTV, without ever flaming into, and then stumbling out of, the arenas in the fashion a band such as Cracker did. It may not be much, but the industry has their hand so far up the ass of most of the 'talent' these days (even compared to 10 years ago), that I'll take whatever little fortuitous scrap of unplanned and unplannable subversion I can get - and if it happens to The Lips, it couldn't be to a more deserving band.
About The Smithereens, Phasecorrect - you're right, they don't really have a place in this particular conversation. I would agree about the good singles band idea, but I've seen them live at least twice, heard (even owned) a few of their LP's, and ultimately think that for all their good influences, talent and erstwhile persistence, at the end of the day they were basically faking it on some fundamental level, winding up bitter about not becoming the next Cars or something. Give me The Lyres, The Fleshtones, or The Young Fresh Fellows any day over them in the back-to-the-60's dept., and I guess I never saw where Cobain rhapsodized over them (though some of the guys in the band did do a wonderful job backing up Sal Valentino and Ron Meagher at a Beau Brummels reunion gig I attended in NYC a few years ago).
OK, Ben (and Phase): I can sympathize. I have worried some myself about whether I will wake up one morning, only to find that in the cold light of day, all The Lips' output starting with "Zaireeka" would suddenly come clear as being too top-heavy and full of frippery to support its own conceits. I mean, I'm a guy that prefers The Who before "Tommy". Believe me, you could not have picked a more repulsive example in my eyes than the Mr. Roboto cut-down, yet I have to admit that the comparision is fairly drawn. So what's the difference? Well, The Flaming Lips aren't completely worthless idiots, for one thing. So their record isn't actually about robots or the fate of the world or some such nonsense, it's about people and lives and death and love, though there certainly is that science-fiction B-movie contextual aspect to some of it. The melodies and harmonies won't make you start pulling out your hair while you run screaming from the room either. And you must remember, The Lips are actually in possession of a sense of humor, and a pretty well-developed one at that, something that might be more evident in live performance. But if you've never heard them very much before, particularly their output from "Clouds Taste Metallic" backwards, then you could certainly be forgiven for not realizing that they are a punky rock & roll band at heart, in the sense of being equally influenced by The Velvet Underground as they are The Kinks (both of whom always maintained the pop side within their punk or the punk side within their pop), and despite all their sonic nods to Lep Zep or Pink Floyd, or how many friends in dressed in animal suits and trying to dance goofy they can fit on stage with the band. They do have grander designs these days, but I think it's important to distinguish a band trying to be 'artsy' from a band making art.
But the main thing that I think it would be a shame not to catch onto with just a passing glance is the fact that Wayne Coyne, while not the 'best' singer in the world (neither was Bob Dylan or Lou Reed of course), is a genuis songwriter with a very unique 'voice', both literally and figuratively. Literally, in the sense that despite his limited instrument, he still manages to evoke certain emotional resonances in a way that almost only he can, and figuratively, in that The Lips' music, even though it can be a bit derivative here and there (and what great music isn't?), doesn't sound like anyone else could have made it, either in construction or execution. I personally vacilate somewhat about whether the bands' new heavily sythesized and studio-treated sound more or less obscures or augments his songwriting as opposed to their earlier guitar feedback and drum battery mastery. I am a guitarist, and tend to reject 'artificial' sounds, yet enjoy it and give credit where it is due when someone comes along like a Bernie Worrell or an Eno, who can actually say something worthwhile in a new and personal voice by using a synthetic instrument. At first I was pretty indifferent at best to the sound of "Yoshimi...", and still find some of it to be distracting in spots (something that happens from time to time with the old guitar noise sound too) and edging toward the glossily tech-ish in others, but these guys have always been sound rangers a la Wire, Bowie, or The Beatles, and repeated and careful listening has shown both the effectiveness and the complexity of their creations. Even so, I don't think that I could take a steady diet of this sound forever, but there are always the older records, and I suspect that the band can be counted upon to change once again. But right now, they are doing what they are doing remarkably well, especially on the strongest cuts, which tells me that a great deal of thought and feeling went into this material's conception and realization. The results may require a little time to grow on a person, but they really can be quite affecting and challenging if you let them. (Audiophile note: a good sound system can help a lot here, as YBTPR is too complex and subtle to be truly felt over a boom box, computer, in-store headphone station, or most car systems.)
The comparisions I make to some of the all-time great artists are not meant to put The Lips on a level with them (I don't believe that any rock artists from this time foward will ever be worthy of that again), but I think it's always valid to draw useful parallels concerning influences, or things brought to the mind of the listener. One such thing I was trying to communicate, is just how impressed I am that an artist today could even make me feel as though they were striving, in their own way, to reach such an unattainable level of excellence. Most don't, you know. Most 'artists' content themselves with mere genre work at best, or just the projection of a marketable image. Very few ever break through, or even try, to find some way of communicating that doesn't rely on well-known and accepted signifiers and mannerisms to get over. Even many great artists work safely within preestablished paradigms, and although such work can be very enjoyable, it is rarely life-changing. But then again, most don't need to create their own version of the chair (to paraphrase John Lennon), because they are not creative geniuses, and don't have a personal artistic vision which demands it. I think those of us who are sensitive to it, instantly recognize even a small glimpse of such a quality, and eagerly pursue music that shows us some of it. I think that Wayne Coyne (in collaboration with his bandmates, if that is to be believed) has shown quite a bit of this quality for some time now.
I think that seeing this is what has made Lips fans, as Phild noted at the top, unusually ardent fans (though the band does seem to have left Phasecorrect behind now). Are they (the band and their fans) idiosyncratic or 'quirky'? I don't know. Obviously some of the others posting to this thread seem to know where I am coming from. I don't think The Lips are any longer guilty of trying to be inaccessible, though some listeners will want that. I think they are trying to be fairly universal. Like The Beatles, Bob Marley, or The Beach Boys, and remarkably few others (especially today), what The Flaming Lips are doing is essentially all about Love - not how cool they are (they're so not-cool, that they are) or how bad they are, or how sexy they are (they aren't those things either). Tell you what Ben, no guarantees of course that you will change your mind, and I totally respect that, but I will make you the same offer I made Sean, if you might be interested in going a little further than you have already before declaring yourself done. Who knows? Maybe you'll wind up convincing me that I'm really out of my tree instead, but if you 'get' Screamin' Jay Hawkins, Bo Diddley, Link Wray, Phil Spector, James Brown, Captain Beefheart, Roky Erickson, Jimi Hendrix, Jonathan Richman, Marc Bolan, Arthur Lee, Alex Chilton, or any other artists (like the ones mentioned up above) that just give you that sense of 'having to do their own thing' (even if on a scale that can't be considered grand but is nevertheless valuable), then I'm guessing you still might being brought 'round on The Lips, at least to some degree or with some of their stuff, if you just give 'em a good chance.
And lastly, an admission: I haven't checked out Wilco, mainly because I had little use for the whole 'No Depression' 'Alt-Country' thing, but also because I don't trust a lot of the critics who're raving about them, 3/4's of whom consider Bruce Springsteen to still be a great songwriter. Anybody care to take a stab at setting me straight? |
Sure they will, and they have - maybe just not on you. Which is OK, although you'll never really know if you don't give them a proper chance. Sorry I threw you with that Boss crack, but I didn't realize that's where you were coming from (I can appreciate his abilities, but he's never been my kind, even when he was shaking things up back in the day). Speaking tangentially to Springsteen though, have you checked out Little Steven's Underground Garage radio show? It's in syndication on over 80 stations nationwide (on Sunday nights where I am). He plays a lot of the great but more obscure and punky 60's stuff that regular radio won't touch, along with modern 60's revival groups (and yes, some Boss, which I think is not only outside the spirit of the show, but a conflict of interest). He also gives some pretty good history lessons in his commentary. I think he's working on a plan to become the next Wolfman Jack when he finally gets too fat to reach his guitar anymore! ;^) You can look it up on his website at littlesteven.com. |
Well Ben (and Phasecorrect), I couldn't disagree with you more about The Lips simply being a flavor of the moment. It seems as if my passing comment about the critical reaction to them has been misinterpreted. I personally don't give a care about what critics say - I couldn't even name you one critic anymore whose writing or opinions I turn to. I'm old enough, have heard enough (my personal music collection runs over 10,000 pieces), and am certainly opinionated enough to figure shit out for myself. Ben, disregarding the Lips issue for a sec, I don't know whether I ought to be more concerned by the fact that you may have actually read what I've written before coming to the bizzare conclusion that I'm some kind of trendinista, or that my writing might be so obtuse that all my readers can do is throw up their hands, glance at the words "international rock press" or "Alex Chilton", and jump to an easy and cynical conclusion. The reason I brought up critical reaction at all was to draw some possible inferences about The Lips' chances to really break through in the public consciousness. Yours is certainly a strange attitude for a Springsteen fan to take, considering that his was one of most extreme examples of being the instant beneficiary of becoming a critical darling in the whole history of rock and what is written about it (leaving to the side the question of whether or not he may have been entirely deserving of this, and also the strong possibility IMO that he may still be, 25 years later, getting more than a little of an easy ride from the rock press generally). Ditto for the Alex Chilton/Nick Drake juxtaposition - their stories of critical resurrection and new-found veneration are actually quite similar.
It was not my intention to get into some kind of pissing match about what's good and what's overrated. None of the artists I listed were supposed to constitute some kind of pantheon of greatness or anything. Basically, I was trying to drop some clues that a reader might employ to help figure out where I'm coming from, so my Lips ravings might be put into some kind of context about just who the hell I am. My list of artists with true individuality could never have been complete anyway - that wasn't the point. Of course I love Miles and Dylan, and of course they fit that description. Maybe I've just taken the wrong approach in trying to talk to you, Ben; maybe I just should have said that my all-time favorite bands are The Beatles and The Rolling Stones (and the critics didn't exactly hate them), or that much of my collection consists of older music so obscure and forgotten that it's never been critically considered, or that I love quite a few bands that the critics have always hated or ignored in their day. I mean, c'mon now - give me some credit, will ya?! Almost the whole point of my posting this thread in first place was to celebrate the fact that there is finally a band who is on the periphery of the radar screen these days who I actually can and do love - 99% of what the media has promoted as being important in rock during the last 15 years I feel has been way overblown. I'm excited because people may actually be getting it right for once, and noticing one of the only bands today I can listen to without getting depressed for the state of the music. You may disagree about The Lips (although I'm not convinced you're speaking from enough experience there to be taken too awfully seriously), and I may disagree about Springsteen's later efforts, but I think it's a shame you seem to be letting that degree of difference persuade you to take an attitude of superiority and condescension in dealing with me or what I have to say. You and I would agree about a lot more than you obviously suppose. The fact that you insist on continuing to try and draw some kind of superficial parallel between Styx and The Flaming Lips, despite my making clear in no uncertain terms that I dislike Styx at least as much as you do (and yet giving your criticism the due consideration and reasoned response you deserve for taking the time to offer it), lets me know that you appparently are not interested in taking me seriously or having an open-minded exchange. In the case of The Lips, if not my own, I'll just say that it's your loss.
Phasecorrect, I couldn't agree with you more about some of the other bands you mention getting undeserved critical hosannas, or at least being overrated. Radiohead in particular, but I should also admit that their whole bag is not to my taste. Beck and especially Mercury Rev have intimate Flaming Lips connections, as I'm sure you know (and I assume that's why you brought them up), but just to give you some perspective on me, I wouldn't buy anything of theirs, though some stuff is OK, just nothing special. Beck is the kind of performer who I might want to like in theory more than I actually do. I find it mildly encouraging that he's moving away from 'rap', but still am not that interested, depite his latest touring band's being the subject of this thread. As for The Strokes, The Vines, The Hives, et al, nobody who wasn't born in the 90's is in any need of this stuff (although I have to say that even I think The Strokes are getting a bit of a bum rap being constantly mentioned in the same breath as the others - they do have a sound and can write hooks, and aren't just trying to get by on phony bluster, though they're about as derivative). I suppose I should appreciate the spirit or something, but really, you and I both know that it's such an uninpsired retread as to actually verge on some kind of insult to the real thing (and also that there are and always have been underground bands doing this kind of stuff for 20 years now, many of whom are/were much better). I also agree with your assessment of the Brit press (doesn't everybody?). But the press liked The Smithereens a lot too, and that doesn't make either them or you wrong about that band, even though I had to dissent somewhat. (And it also doesn't mean I consider you to be any more influenced by the "hip" factor than I am - sometimes the critics and you will just like the same thing.) Anyway, you think there's any chance our friend Ben here could grow to like some of the older Lips stuff that you (and I) dig so much?
P.S. - BTW Phasecorrect, are you a Redd Kross fan? I briefly had hopes for those guys in the 90's too, before grunge snowed everything under, but after their last record stiffed (deservedly so I'm afraid) and the death of their lead guitarist, I don't know if they'll ever get it back together again now. |
Thanks for the Wilco imput Phil (the rest too :-). I'll have to make an effort to give them a listen (unfortunately for me, my ability to preliminarily audition stuff online is about nil, due to my relatively ancient computer, which just can't deal well with a streaming feed). My aversion to the "Alt-Country" tag doesn't have so much to do with not being a huge country fan (I'm not in the sense of knowing a lot about it or owning much of it, but I can greatly enjoy vintage country from the 50's and 60's [such as DC's WAMU carries on Saturday afternoons with the Eddie Stubbs show broadcast from Nashville - don't know if this is syndicated], and also like acoustic bluegrass), or even not caring for the original wave of country-rock (I'm a big fan of stuff such as Gene Clark's collaborations with Doug Dillard, The Band, Neil Young, Dylan, The Stones' country flirtations, and even some Flying Burrito Brothers and (gasp) Dead, but am not as attracted to later Byrds, Gram Parsons solo, or the artists that followed them with greater commercial success such as The Eagles, Poco, or Emmylou Harris), but rather what I perceive as the mannered and stilted approach characteristic of just about all self-conscious attempts at 'revival' or 'genre' music, combined with a tendency in this case toward the boring, songwriting-wise. I also found "No Depression" to be kind of presumptuous in a way that reminds me of the hype surrounding "The Year That Punk Broke", since both those phenomena were essentially media and commercial trend-hopping of movements that had really begun at least a decade before they were promoted as the latest thing. But as you say, the newer Wilco work may not be explicitly derived from this school.
I fully sympathize with The Beatles being your "benchmark of quality". I've been afflicted with the same expectation level ever since they became my favorite band when I was given the "Rubber Soul" album at age six, and this can make it hard for a rock fan to ever really give full marks to any other group or artist pursuing an original, non-genre, songwriting-oriented and impressionistic-in-execution approach to the music (artists not attempting to do anything other than entertain are, perhaps unfairly, given somewhat of a pass in this regard, but neither are they loved as much as The Beatles, while practicioners of traditional forms are exempt from having to compete). Part of the way I've reconciled this is to accept the realization that both the state of the art form, and the state of our society today generally, will never again allow for such a level of greatness to be achieved as The Beatles represent no matter what level of genius is brought to bear. Next taking into account the fact that almost universally, you are not actually going to find an equivalent level of genius anyway, I look to the hope of finding a different kind of genius, which is thankfully infinite in possibility. But the one thing that I really really look for, and get very high about when I think I may have found it, is an artist who, despite their limitations of ability or contextual serendipity (which may be severe compared to The Beatles), tries their very hardest, and brings all of their individual genius to bear, on attempting to achieve their own personal version of what The Beatles pointed the way toward in terms of what is ventured and gained artistically. Most artists lack both the genius and the effort required, and the rest generally lack one or the other. But when you can find an artist of considerable unique genius, who undertakes the difficult attempt to go beyond their own preconceptions of their art and reach for a new synthesis which might recall the creative spirit of The Beatles in their own small way, then you may have found an artist who successfully expresses what I have always identified as the key quality inherent in any work that can begin to satisfy in a way that even remotely recalls The Beatles: Generosity. It is the sharing of that personal artistic exploration in a way that tries to reach out to the audience unselfishly and give something that no one else could create, which is special. Most artists either don't possess something which goes beyond in order to give, or they end up taking from their audience rather than giving to it by not pushing themselves into so vulnerable and unknown an area of personal expression, instead working in a safe place where they are sure not to fail. If you can find that spirit of unguarded artistic generosity, even if the genius attempting to give it represents merely one which is different from what has come before, rather than one which is (impossibly) equal to what has come before, then you have found something which is worthy of the continuation of the art form's heritage of new creation.
I believe when you hear that spirit of generosity in an artist's work, you receive a spark of recognition that tells you: pay attention, this is different, this is real. Worlds can only open up for the listener if the artist is willing to go naked before them and share their unique creation despite the risk. I value receiving this spark into my heart even if the artistic genius in question is only a minor genius, relatively speaking. I can hear it and appreciate it in the case of Joey Ramone just as much as I can with John Lennon, just as much in the case of Gene Vincent as with Bob Dylan. Without all the reaching of all the minor geniuses, when it comes to rock, you might as well just listen to The Beatles and nothing else, but that would be a much less interesting and stimulating life. Which is, sadly, just about the state of the music as I hear it today. Most artists nowadays possess little to no creative genius, and are content to merely exploit their audience, essentially holding it in contempt. This might be okay for the industry (although not in the long run, I think) and for fans who have little in the way of artistic sensitivity, but it gets really depressing after a while for people like you or me, who grew up on something better. Rock is a pop art form, and though I can always listen to older material again, or tell myself that I can enjoy music that remains in the underground even though most people have never heard of it, I guess there is still a strong psychological need to be a part of something new which is much larger than yourself, and which has been going unfulfilled for quite some time now. I mean, I can barely recall the last time that I was totally into something that made much of a dent on the popular consciousness. There used to be a viable substitute for this in the underground rock community that existed when I was younger, but that was blown up and fragmented by the time of the Lollapalooza generation, and totally subsumed as everything became the oxymoronic "alternative". Of course, there will never again exist a day when the most popular artist in the world is also the best, as in the case of The Beatles. And in this post-regional, internet and video age, I don't even think there are going to be any more vital underground scenes in the way there were in the 70's and 80's. But I suppose that it is still just a simple hope of mine that someday, there will again be an artist who simultaneously sparks that recognition of artistic generosity within me, and also has it embraced by the larger world around me. Are The Flaming Lips it? If I'm being realisitc I think "No way it could happen, they're too weird, they're not what people want", but then there are times when I think that just maybe, enough other people might recognize in them the same thing that I do. |
I was never very into the groups you mention. Most of them have their appealing aspects to me on their best material though, and I even own a couple of things here and there. The British group which came out in the early 80's that I was most into (as opposed to the British groups which came out in the 70's, many of which I was and am very into) was Manchester's The Chameleons. More recently, I quite like Supergrass (way too many bands in this world with the "super" moniker somewhere in the name). But overall, I've been disappointed with the output from the UK for some time. I'll email you about your kind offer. |
Received my new TAS today, had to smile when I got to page 147, and even more on 163... |
The Lips will be on PBS's "Austin City Limits" show airing in most areas tonight, Sunday 1/5, according to the band website. The show was taped a couple months ago, and they back up Beck, but I think they also do their own set too. We shall see. |
Oh well, The Lips did not do their own set after all, and I didn't much care for the Beck stuff, or The Lips as his band. For anybody who tuned in and is now wondering what exactly the hell I'm on about here, rest assured that the Austin City Limits set was no indication at all of what The Lips do on their own playing their own material. Too bad. |
Hope they do (grow on you, that is)...
No, I'm not sure which EP you're referring to (I don't have any Lips on vinyl), but have you tried researching it on their website? Even you can't find it among the releases listed there, you could post the question on the message board. |
Ben: If you're still out there on this one, I thought it might amuse you to learn that I've lately come to the trivial yet tantalizing realization that the core essence of the 'breakthrough' sound-construction exemplified by "The Soft Bulletin" leadoff single "Race For The Prize" (and extended by the band and producer Dave Fridmann on other contemporaneous tracks) can actually be traced back, as it were (and assuming one is so inclined sans definitive proof), to the Mellotron'n'drums intro (& outro) contained on the title track of King Crimson's "In The Wake Of Poseidon" from The Year of our Classic Prog-Rock Nineteen Hundred and Seventy... (Thankfully the Lips found a way to effect a much-needed improvement in the lyrics department though :-) |
It's so comforting to know some things will never change... (Hey, about that Rush logo jacket - you sure we didn't go to the same junior high school? ;^) |
My brother, also a Lips fan, is into Merc Rev, and I've heard some of their stuff, but wasn't moved to get it for myself as I am with the Lips. Maybe it's because I actually enjoy Wayne's vocal stylings?... :-) BTW, some delayed leftovers from the Yoshimi sessions have been dribbling forth on EP's and DVD, including such outstanding tunes such as "Funeral In My Head" and "Up Above The Daily Hum". |
Now a car company (I don't even remember which one) is running TV ads using "Do You Realize?" as the sound track. The previous HP spot didn't make this song the radio hit it deserved to be (din't this work for Moby?), and though MTV/VH1 still won't play the Lips' own videos, they frequently use Lips music as backing tracks in their productions about other things (including about the music of other bands). It's almost as if there's a conspiracy of sorts to capitalilize on the Lips' genius without acknowledging it, even though the band is surely getting paid well for the usage. Why is corporate America simultaneously so attracted to and yet seemingly afraid of a phenomenon that they apparently feel they need to tamp it down at the same time they try to exploit it? I keep thinking that sometime, somewhere, some radio programmer is going to get the bright idea of surrendering to the obvious and actually play this stuff, making it a belated hit - but then I remember, Oh yeah, there are no more independent radio programmers anymore, only corporate chain bean-counting panderers who lack the artistic insight to "Realize" they could be making money off something new if only they possessed the balls to play quality music by 40-year olds. I guess the advertising geeks are hipper, and more subversive, than the radio geeks nowadays. |
Just checked out the recent "Ego Tripping at the Gates of Hell" EP at the Tower listening station this evening...a handful of useless remixes of "Yoshimi..." songs (definitely not improvements), along with a handful of uninspired new tunes...could they be starting to hit the proverbial wall as far as their capacity to continually amaze?... |
Sbank: I got and returned one of the "Yoshimi..." pic-disks, "Do You Realize??" b/w "Up Above the Daily Hum", because it was totally unplayable - distortion city.
I saw (taped, in fact) MMJ on TV, and regret to say did not dig it the way their advance press had led to me to hopefully expect. Not terrible or anything, but where was the Kinks/Beach Boys-inspired art-pop I had read about? Granted, it was just one tune, but sludgy guitar riffage has been done much better than that, and the hair-shaking... |
Spencer: I acknowledge that my reaction to MMJ is as much a reaction to what were probably questionable comparisons as to the band and its music. Other things I've read about them seem more accurate (based on my limited experience) if no less adulatory, though they're still likely not my cup o'. But almost nothing these days is... |
I think they range pretty wide in their influences and listening tastes. This is a band that, when I saw them a couple of years ago in Philly, opened the show with a video of their singer Wayne interviewing Brian Wilson, and then covered a current radio hit by Kylie Minogue in their set (a vastly reworked take, BTW - and to be perfectly honest, they went to some pains to point out that they didn't consider the song to be done tongue in cheek, so whether this bolsters my argument is a matter of judgement).
Yes, they obviously have a humorous side (hence the fans dancing around the stage in furry animal suits), which is something I was trying to put across to Ben, who seems to think the Lips are as ridiculously self-serious as, say, Rush. My own taste in humor in rock'n'roll tends more toward Chuck Berry, the Beatles, and the Ramones than to Zappa (in other words, I like mine couched in pop tunes rather than self-consciously weird techie noodling), but the Lips probably have a toe in each camp. Whatever - they certainly recognize that some leavening is needed to cut their more top-heavy conceptions. If/when the great pop tunes run out however, that's where I'll be getting off the train, as weird + silly + pompous alone won't do it for me - I need beauty and guts, which so far they've graced us with generously... |
Clbeanz, I am not a particular fan of "Zaireeka" (and the nickname my username derives from predates it by a few decades:-) ; to me it's mostly an indulgent hodgepodge, with the germs of a couple of good songs on it rendered moot by the artsy-fartsy unwieldiness of the 4-disk simultaneous-play concept (bootleg stereo mixdowns can be found however). I see it primarily as the band's production tune-up for the far-superior and much more necessary "Soft Bulletin", but I can't deny that "Zaireeka" did represent an exponential growth phase in their ever-expanding sound. |
Yes, the 4-CD set was re-released at a budget-line price after the OOP original issue began commanding collector prices in the wake of the band's "Soft Bulletin" relative commercial break-out. At any price, however, there is still little reason to kick oneself for not buying this set - better to invest in "Clouds Taste Metallic" or "Transmissions From The Satellite Heart", the last two guitar-rock albums they made prior to "Zaireeka". IMO the great Lips LP's are "Transmissions...", "Clouds...", "...Bulletin", and "Yoshimi...", with honorable mention going to "In A Priest Driven Ambulance". The bulk of "Hit To Death In The Future Head" (which fell between the superior "...Ambulance" and "Transmissions...") sounds like a bid for alt-radio acceptance to me, occasionally pleasant or motivating but mostly conventional and forgettable by Lips standards. The stuff before "...Ambulance" can be safely ignored by newbies (sorry Phasecorrect!), right along with "Zaireeka". (Also, the expanded reissue of "...Ambulance" - entitled "The Day They Shot A Hole In The Jesus Egg" - does not generally make for very edifying or necessary listening beyond the original album tracks, but those do benefit somewhat from the remastering.) |
