Teres, Galibier and Redpoint

Thanks for the information, Frank, and also for the explanation of how the "same" arm/cart combo could sound different.

Now stop typing. Save your wrists for the tonearms! :)

Congratulations, Colin! I'm very gealous right now! :)

Dmailer, does the Galibier/Redpoint motor sit on little rubber feet?

I'm betting that the pulley diameter is dictated by the motor shaft speed. Not to say that it can't be done and I image something like this is built in to some of the flywheel drives. Still, there is a ratio between the pulley diameter and platter diameter that must be maintained for a given motor speed. My math is too rusty to work through quickly, but to have a pulley of 4-6" would require either some type of reduction from the motor shaft, a much slower speed motor, or a much larger platter diameter.

I am completely sympathetic! I, too, am looking into my next table and have considered all three of these in addition to Avid and Acoustic Signature. It is most likely that all of these tables are capable of great performance. I have owned a very good suspended table in the past but I have come to realize that these are not the best at dynamics and "the startle factor". (I borrowed that phrase because I think it really sums up what my preference is for vinyl playback.) If the listener tends to like warmer,perhaps a bit smooth playback then I would think a suspended table would be in order. So, like you, I'm going down the nonsuspended, high mass road.

I also give the nod to the 3 tables you mentioned because I think they are the best value around when you compare all of the features included in the price. But my personal preference is for the arm and bearing to be tightly coupled. So that ruled out the Redpoint for me. Another preference I have is for mounting multiple arms and here again I think these tables get the nod because the armboards can easily be manufactured and the pivoting feature makes for setup ease.

So I'm down to Galibier and Teres. Here is where the dilemma really begins to kick in and like you said it is virtually impossible to hear both table in my system in my room. Again I'm left to comparisons based on research and not listening sessions. Both of these tables imploy a simpler is better approach if we skip the motor controllers for now. The biggest difference is in the materials chosen. I'm also an amateur woodworker so I really appreciate the look and craftsmanship of the Teres tables. I have no issue with movement of the wood because I'm satisfied that the process that Chris uses in making the Teres tables is sufficient to keep any movement to a minimum. I'm also put at ease by the great effort that Chris goes to to stand behind what he makes.

As I said before, my preferences in sonics tend to the dynamic and what many would refer to as bright. I reject this because bright is exactly how I would characterize all live music I have ever heard. Anyway, that leads me to think that Thom's approach using all metal may yield sonics closer to what I would prefer. But I also admit that this is at best a guess on my part.

Now, just a brief comment on the motor controller that is used by Teres and some others. I'm an engineer, EE and CS, and I do have some concerns with a feedback loop controller. It does seem that the one in question is very well implemented, but again my preference is for simple is best.

So here we are Richard. Both on a similar quest and both facing the same obstacles.

Yes, please take my comments and observations as nothing more than that, my opinion based on my preferences.

I am still a big fan of Basis tables and the Vector. I've used both for a couple of years and could be happy with Basis for many more years. That said I think they through a huge soundstage with heavy bass, at least from the 2500 and up, but they are a bit dark sounding and I think that the leading edge dynamics could be better. In my search for improvement it was mentioned to me by several people that the motor on the Basis could be improved upon with something like the Walker Drive or the VPI SDS. But we're talking at least $1500 and no guarantee that this alone will solve all of the issues. This is the same issue that I have with many tables and a very big part of why I think Teres, Galibier and Redpoint are a better value when considering the DC motor solutions employed by these manufacturers. Also, for my preferences, these 3 tables provide a cost effective solution for adding additional arms. Well, Redpoint's solution may not be as cost effective but if one had several arms this may still be the way to go. I'm still not completely sure if the Redpoint armpod actually connects to the plinth or not. My understanding is that the de-coupled armpod is one of the few differences between what Thom and Peter produce. I suppose I still have research to do in this area of armboards and armpods.

I suspect (big opinion here) that part of the lack in dynamics is due to the damped suspension, it is after all a shock absorber. I also tend to believe that metal is a better material to start with than acrylic to yield the sound that I want to hear. I'm still not certain about Cocobolo, but hey, they do make musical instruments with it. This is definitely a matter of personal choice. No table is perfect.

I also looked at Sota and I do think they make an excellant table. The multiple arm mounting was an issue for me. Not that Sota can't do it, but they do consider it to be custom work and so more money. Again, a question of what is the better value.

Again, this is all based on my preferences and I don't mean to suggest there is a short-coming with any of the tables mentioned in this thread. All are capable of reproducing great music. But I think Richard and I have narrowed our search to Teres, Galibier, and Redpoint.

Richard, I may be missing something but I believe the reason for decoupling the armpod from the main bearing is to prevent vibrations from the record surface making their way to the arm. I believe that the designer of Avid tables discourages unipivots for this very reason. I think a drawback is that there is a potential for things not aligning properly. And, unless you really seperate the armpod completely from the bearing as in completely seperate stands, they are still coupled by whatever the components are sitting on. So why not just couple everything and sink the vibrations together. I'm sure I've probably butchered this and hopefully someone will come along that could provide a better explanation.

Hi Albert,

Yes, I think all three use the Maxon DC motor. Unless things have changed, only Teres and Redpoint are using the feedback controller that was developed during the original project. It uses a closed loop feedback controller with a sensor in the plinth that "watches" a strobe pattern on the plinth. This is how the Teres is implemented and I'm guessing that the Redpoint does the same.

Dmailer, thanks for clearing up the armpod alignment. The implementation you describe sounds like it may have some advantages over the pivoting armboards used by Chris and Thom, although I'm guessing those pods are more expensive.

Are you using the Anvil and/or a ring clamp?

Very good example, DougDeacon. I have experienced this with my 10t's. If I want to hear mud in the woofers I can just remove the 40# stands.

Dmailer, DougDeacon burst my bubble as far as using a ring since he told me that the TriPlanar would not clear it when the cartridge was near the end of the grooves. Maybe Thom has a better idea for machining a ring to use with the TriPlanar but I would probably only be interested in using one to see if it would provide a solution for some of those 'tater chip records. I will have a graham 2.2 mounted as well so maybe I could use it with that arm.

I did express to Thom some reservations about the Anvil but I admit I've never used a weight and am only going on what I have experienced with clamps. That is some records need different clamping pressure than others. I'm not sure how that translates to the weight.

Yes, I was hoping that someone who went could offer a review of these based on what they heard. That's assuming Thom, Chris and Peter were all in attendance.

Hi DougDeacon,

Thom had mentioned something about CES so I assumed he was showing. Perhaps not. It's good to know that the heavier mylar tape seems to be doing the job, but it doesn't make the decision any easier! :)

Hi Colitas,

That is the ring that DougDeacon had mentioned. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work with TriPlanar tonearm.

Thanks for the informative posts, Thom and Chris. I've spent some time absorbing all of this information here concerning these tables and trying to come to terms with what would suit my own preferences. I suppose in the end it would be best to hear these tables. Not an easy feat but not impossible with some patience and vacation time. :)

I have also been reading the archives about the issues concerning positioning the motor pods in order to maintain proper belt tension. My experience to date has been with stretchy drive belts but it can imagine how critical this can be with a belt that gives almost no elasticity. Even with the Basis I used to own I would notice the motor had walked toward the table after a week or so. This did not seem to impact the sonics so I never experimented with spikes or some kind of material under the motor. All I know about the mylar belts is what I've read and it does seem that tension is critical. So I'm curious as to how sensitive this tension adjustment is.

Richardmr, have you made any decision yet? I've got two tonearms and no table. This is causing me nothing but stress. I still can't make up my mind.

Thank's Dougdeacon. I will probably build a stand for which ever table I get so I'm planning what surface finish to use. Thom has a picture on his website that shows an owner who fashioned a mechanism for doing fine adjustments to the motor position for belt tensioning. I do have an idea for making such a gizmo but it sounds like it probably isn't necessary unless I use some hard, slick surface.

I completly underestimated how long I would be without a table and how much I would miss it when I sold my last table. I have no one to blame but myself for my stress. It doesn't help to sit down for a listening session and be surrounded by all those LP's that are still waiting cleaning, inspection and cataloging. They're calling my name and I'm starting to answer them back!

BTW, I noticed you had a bearing upgrade done to your 320. Would you care to to provide details on the differences with the new bearing and how it has impacted the sound?

Hi Richardmr, I know all to well how that side of the bed thing works. I would be interested in reviewing the arguments you mention concering PRaT and high mass tables. I gather from Thom's recent comments that it may be mostly a question of implementation rather than design theories. I have no doubt that there are many great tables to choose from.

I am curious concerning this question of PRaT and mass-loaded tables. It seems that the low torque motor used on these 3 tables contributes to this "lack". This does sound feasible with a low torque motor when considering stylus drag. However, if the platter is anything over 20 lbs. I can't see how, given the inertia, that this could contribute to a loss in PRaT. Perhaps I'm not considering the right parameters.

Xagwell,

This is a bit OT but I can assure you that you will be able to improve on the already great sound of the Rhea with some tube rolling should you decide to keep that Rhea.

I'm currently trying to put together a Denver trip to hear both the Galibier and Teres. Thom and I have started the process. I'm still trying to contact Chris. The excitement is really building around my house!

Guys, if any of you can join me it looks like my trip will be no earlier than the last week of April. It is very exciting! As of this post I have been in touch with both Thom and Chris. I can't tell you what I don't know but it seems there is a very good possibility that new and promising developments will be available from both Thom and Chris. There is always more fun in numbers so if any one else can, please let me know so that we can coordinate.

Hi Rich. Yes. It seems when you get towards the northwestern side of Denver you would end up about half way between Teres and Galibier based on my current understanding of where these guys are located. If we assume a weekend trip this is probably 30-45 min. max between. I'm also assuming a decent motel location, which by my research is not a problem at all.

Cello,

Thanks very much for your input. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble responding to your email. Perhaps try to respond through the A'gon system and that will work? I do look forward to hearing from you.

Dan

I wanted to resurrect this post just to let people know that there is a date planned, May 13, for a Rumble in the Rockies! On tap is half a day of Galibier and half a day of Teres, with some special Schroeder sauce and TriPlanar garnishments thrown in.

Also, and most special, is the chance to meet many of the Denver area audiophiles.

Anyone who can is more than welcome join in!

Hi Richard,

Are you still considering or just curious.

Dan

Haha! Didn't think about table rumble. I was worried some would think there was going to be fisticuffs!

Rick! You dirty rat! (My best James Cagne!) :)

I'm posting here from Denver, up before the rooster since I'm still on eastern time. Just to be clear I don't really see this as a shootout so much since there won't be a a/b in the same system with all other components being the same. I think of it more as some really great auditions of choice quality stuff.

I'll try to post this weekend but in reality it may not be until monday.

I'm not telling you guys nuttin' without yooze each send a small donation to my favorite charity. That being me. For an extra $5 I've give the audiophile approved cryo'd version.

I'll probably post something tonight. I want to get my thoughts together as there was just so much to take in. The trip was very, very much worth it!

Saturday in Denver was, if nothing else, a tremendous amount of fun for me. As you can imagine, traveling almost 3700 miles in one weekend is very tiring and it really took a toll on my wife and me on the way home. Flight delays and cancellations put us back in New Hampshire about 4 hours late. Add to that the fact that we came home to a state of emergency due to some intense rain and subsequent flooding. But we dodged the floods and washouts and made it without serious mishap. We're high and dry but there are many people around us that are going through a very diffcult time up here.

I'll try to hit my main impressions here and then continue with follow up posts because I know more memories will pop as the conversation flows.

As Thom mentioned, I spent good deal of time with his system. We did go through the arm/cartridge combinations he mentioned and I do have some thoughts and observations on those but I want to first get out my impressions of the tables that I heard. I have had the pleasure of hearing Doug Deacon's Teres 320/Triplanar/UNI no too long ago so I was over the initial first impressions of how massive these table are. The first thing I noticed was how much these tables, both Teres and Galibier, just completely remove themselves from the sound. Both at Thom's and again at Chris's some less than pristine LP's were played, because what good is a table that won't allow you to also enjoy those 25 cent garage sale records as well as the expensive audiophile LPs. All of the tables I heard did an excellant job here. So you get to have fun with these tables as well.

I must admit that I did bring some expectations with me concerning what I thought I would hear between an all wood table and an all metal table. There are differences in the sound to be sure, but perhaps not near as much as one might expect. The Galibier, the Stelvio model, was very dynamic across the entire range. Nothing unexpected here at all. Lots of attack and plenty of decay with cymbals. Bass was very detailed and controlled. Several times I heard that bass string growl I'm always listening for.

What makes it tough is that I heard much of the same from the Teres 320. I do think there is a smoothing effect that may be the characteristic Teres sound. Keep in mind I'm trying to relay what I heard from the tables in two different systems and with a good two hours in between. I should also point out that the 320 was set up with a Moerch DP 6. No slouch at all but no where near the dynamics of the Triplanar and DPS. I think it possible to totally screw up the presentation of either table with the wrong arm and cartrige. Naturally, screw up is entirely subjective but I have no doubt that both tables will give you exactly what you ask for.

If you haven't caught on by now here it is. I'm not going to decide this for anyone because I can't even do that for myself at this point. If I take a bit off of the Stelvio to get to to the Gavia (I have not heard the Gavia) and then try to hold that up against the 320, now try to compesate for two different systems and rooms. I cannot make a real stand either way. Everyone is going to have a slight preference one way or the other. Anyone considering Galibier and Teres (Redpoint as well) owes it to themselves to make the trip out and hear for themselves which table they might prefer. If nothing else you get to meet two of the nicest people you could ever hope to meet. They would be Chris's and Thom's wives! They're both good guys, too.

Here's some even more fun stuff. Chris has a new, all Birch model (280 I believe) that is really cool to watch spin. The platter is made from the good, multi-layered, cabinet grade birch plywood sandwiched between birch hardwood top and bottom. Nicknamed "The Blonde", it gives this iredescent strobe effect as the end grain spins by. Some of us are quite sure there are subliminal messages implanted within. This table has the characteristic Teres smoothing but it is a step down in dynamics from the 320. But it is also a big step down in cost. Really could be something of interest to the mid-market owners looking to upgrade.

Here is where the rubber hits the road. The most profound experience of the weekend for me was the new Teres Direct Drive 380! Hands down the best sound of any table I heard. The attack and tempo this new beastie puts out is awesome! Dynamics were very good but I expect this since there was Schroeder Reference and ZYX Universe mounted on it. These don't account for the obvious superiority in timing. Naturally, the cost is much higher starting around $9K. Every genre was played on this table and it just powered right through them. Classical, jazz, piano, mandolin, big band, even Stevie Ray Vaughn could not make the 380 even break a sweat. Chris says he has some more improvements to make to the controller and the final form of the platter and plinth to get to where he believes the table has the potential to go.

Doug, I thought of you and Paul right off the bat when I heard the pacing of the 380. Sorry to give you the bad news, but you guys need to start saving your spare change for this one. I would say the difference easily surpasses the differences between Nick's pre/phono and the Aesthetix gear by an order of magnitude. Chris has a pot on the controller to vary the torque so we had to play with that. It was very easy to hear the effect that excess torque had on the leading edges. All of us agreed that he should have that adjustment on the finished controller, perhaps with a much smaller range of torque adjustment. The 380 was about the same size as a 320. I wish I had remembered to take a few pictures although it is probably better that I didn't because Chris is not happy with the look. But,hey, it's a prototype. I believe it weighs around 120#.

Andrew, SirSpeedy is correct in that we did compare the Triplanar with a DPS. This is just my opinion, but I would go with the Triplanar for no other reason than it is much easier to adjust. The Schroeder is very well thought out and elegant in it's simplicity. Thom was able to tweak the DPS with the Dynavector so that it was very close to the same sound as the Triplanar/Dynavector. It did seem that the Schroeder was not quite up to controlling the edge attacks with piano stikes, but Thom and I both think that it could be done with some diligence in tweaking. The Universe did seem to lack a little dynamically compared with the XV-1s on the same arm. But I heard a very different result latter on at CB's open house. Now, if someone wants to wait for a Schroeder just be aware that the lead time is much greater than it used to be.

Another observation concerning the ZYX Universe. I realize that the arm used has a great deal to do with the outcome, but any talk of the Universe being somewhat slow or rolled-off is not what I heard at all using CB's Reference. This combo was also mounted on the torque monster 380. I can't explain why the Universe I heard at Thom's seemed to lack some dynamics. It could be that it is a better match with the Ref or it could be that the increase in torque unlocks the transient response. The Dynavector gives the Zyx a good run and costs good deal less.

Thom, I may be completely butchering which model Schroder you were using. I thought that only the DPS had the VTF wheel on the back of the weight but I admit that I'm not really familiar with the differences in Frank's arms.

Doug, leave Nick alone, dammit! :)

Well, it sounds to me like Thom did get pretty close based on your last comments, Doug. And Thom also makes a valid point about the differences in systems and speakers. So I see no reason why someone could not be happy with either tonearm and either cartridge.

BTW, someone did post some pictures of the two new Teres tables over on AA. I guess the DD is a model 400.

Thom, that sounds very much like what we heard when Chris purposely cranked up the torque. The leading edges became hard sounding. You're description of this as being more of a digital sound is very good. It was a great demo of the effect of too much torque.

Thanks! I'm sure this table will be with me for many years, which is why I took my time with this.

I already have a new Triplanar VII and a Graham 2.2. I'm getting a Dynavector XV-1s for now. I'm still looking for something a little more compliant for the Graham. Maybe zyx airy 2 or 3, or Transfiguration.

Getting past the initial eye-opening lesson of what increased tempo can do to the reproduction of the music does take a little time. Just as with tone, dynamics, etc., Raul's favorite question is always present. "Does it sound like live music?" and I would add "Does it sound like the original performance?". As I said before, during the demo of the DD it was clear after some point that too much torque was actually detrimental to the presentation. So it begs the question as to what is the proper amount of torque that should be applied. How much pluckiness is too much? I agree that a valid comparison between belt and DD even in the same line, Teres in this case, may not be fair until that torque limit is known and applied. I wonder if Thom's experiments with torquey motors may have uncovered a happy medium if the motors hadn't been of fixed torque design. I have no doubt that if too much torque is applied that it would be a tiring thing to listen to, much like many CDPs.

Then there is the old rule of thumb that many people apply no matter what the subject is, but especially when technology is involved. "You don't want to be an early adopter." I do believe Chris is heading in a good direction with his development of the DD. However, I still ask the question of myself regarding how much is this new option worth to me and does it justify the cost. Another consideration is how long is it going to take to develop the controller and motor to the point where it is ready for the market.

Flyingred mentioned some great points about his choice of the Galibier and I am in complete agreement. I have always been of the opinion that two of the biggest factors in favour of the the Gavia (and Stelvio) are the simplicity of the motor system and the fact that one doesn't have to worry about major movement of the materials used. I also hold the belief that the metal vs. wood structure is more condusive to a dynamic presentation. It is also very true that follow up sessions without so many variations in equipment (tables, arms and cartridges) would probably have helped me to make a more definitive report about which table I preferred.

When it comes to the comparison of the Gavia and say the Teres 320 I haven't experienced anything that would change my opinion. I realize that this may sound like a contradiction from my earlier statements, but in fact, it is a clarification of where my thoughts are at the current time. I just can't honestly say that I can identify that I heard "this was better that that".

The points made about jumping on what sounds pleasing or "better" at the time is well taken. I admit, as I'm sure we all have, to having made equipment choices that latter turned out not to be what I was really looking for.

Thom, I just realized we never played with the Anvil! :)

Well it has been quite a journey for me. I've been all through the pros and cons on paper and in my mind. The choice between the Galibier and Teres tables really does come down to personal preference in all categories. At least that has been my experience. Like some of you have posted I have also read for quite some time about all of the wonderful virtues of the Teres tables. I can't remember exactly when it was that I first became aware of Galibier, but it struck me immediately that this could be the one. It has been 6 months since my journey began in earnest to purchase one of these tables and there was no turning back since I had sold my Basis 2500 at that time. (ok, I've since picked up a used Basis 1400 so I don't go completely crazy without vinyl.)

I've now made the trip out to listen to both tables and I've also had the pleasure of hearing Doug Deacon's Teres 320. I can say that both Galibier and Teres offer terrific tables at very competitive prices to the more established manufacturers. Although I was not able to pin down the differences in music reproduction between these two I do think that will come with time. I also experienced nothing that would make me think less of either. I have sent Thom an email to let him know that I intend to go with my instincts that the Galibier is the best table for me.

Now that I've come to a decision, (which really was pretty easy in the end), it seems that my journey is coming to an close. A new one will begin soon when my new table is delivered!

Thanks for the waring, Larry. That's very interesting. So, are the Airys less compliant or is this possibly something that might be improved with the extra headshell weight? I was impressed with both the Dynavector and UNIverse. They each seem to have a characteristic over the other. The Dyna seems a tad more dynamic and the UNI seems to have more of a neutral tone.

Spencer, I heard only the top of the line Stelvio. I'll be purchasing a Gavia, most likely with the Gavia platter. I know that Thom has a PVC platter that is the lowest cost and lightest weight platter. I've had something similar on a Basis so I know about where this PVC platter falls in performance. The Gavia is step up in price and includes the new TPI graphite platter surface as well as some added internal dampening. I believe this platter has all of the increased bass that the PVC would have with the added dynamics of the graphite surface. If I remember correctly Thom likens the improvement from the PVC to the Gavia platteer as that of a cartridge upgrad. The next step up adds about 25 lbs of brass internally to the Gavia. I'm sure this adds a bit more to the sound, but I could always add that platter later as an upgrade.

There is also a difference in armboards. The first is much like the arm seen on Teres tables, except not wood, which have a hole under the arm to allow mounting of arms with the cables that attach underneath. Then there is a new armboard with a massive hunk of metal under where the arm mounts. I don't know if this is solid or contains some dampening materials. This armboard works easily with arms that have the cables attached on the side.

Both the Gavia and Stelvio come with two mount points. All you need is the additional armboard. I think that the Stelvio plinth also adds some increased dampening. As far s I can tell there is an upgrade path all the way up through the full-on Stelvio. There is a new Serac table coming soon for a real cost effective application. Probably won't have the Anvil and additional arm mounts. I'm sure Thom will chime in at some point and give a better accounting of the differences.

Doug, I've already guessed I'll have to schlep this thing down for a bit of fun. I wouldn't be as concerned about moving a big hunk of metal as I would a big hunk of wood. (We can work out the schlepping later.) Considering we'd be listening with just about everything the same it would be a telling lasagnushi weekend!

So, you don't concur with Larry on the UNI/2.2? I have to admit is has been a bit of a pickle trying to determine what cartridges to settle on for the 2.2. I'd like to get something that works well on either arm. I really liked the XV-1s and the UNI surprised me at how well it handles most any kind of music. Nick mentioned liking some of the new Benz cartridges quite a bit. I've been seriously considering Transfiguration as well. As you know I do listen to mostly classic/alternative rock, but I'm also amassing a pretty good collection of jazz and mild country. Heck, I've even got 30-40 classical LP's. Throw in some blues and it becomes a pretty wide range of music.

Now I've got to build a stand to handle this hunk!

Thanks to everyone for the support. Hang in there Speedy, that amp will come back and be all the better.

It does look like we're having a change in the weather to more dry air for the next week so maybe things will really improve around here. No complaints from me, though. My only problem through all of this is not being able to get the grass cut. Oh damn! Another weekend of uninterrupt vinyl has come and gone. I don't know how I make it through!

I guess it really is a no brainer about the UNIverse. I'll just have to see how the budget handles it. I'm already making plans for amp and speaker changes so I do want to have something left.

Obewan, please forgive the transgression of one who is but a wee nematode on the path to audio enlightenment!

Now if I can just find that extra $12K I had lying around. . .

Hi Nick! Yes, I remember Doug bragging about how he put a hurtin' on you once. :)

HaHa! Bob, we have met in the past! I bet I can still drive right to your door. We are very close indeed and we should get together for some listening sessions. Do you still have your Basis? I have progressed more into the music you enjoy so I'm sure we could enjoy some jazz together.

When I read about the meltdown at Doug's I couldn't help but image some poor schmuck audio dude who caught just a glimpse of nirvana right before the Three Mile Island melt down. Morbid, yeah, but funny in a whacked sort of way.

Mike, thanks for sharing your experiences from the early days! That was most enjoyable reading from the perspective of receiving a "new born".

Interesting that I was just talking with my wife about how I could easily pass this table on to my son (a young dude of 26) and feel quite comfortable that he would be able to enjoy the best of vinyl playback for many, many years to come. Thanks for your vote of confidence and for sharing your experience.

Hi John,

I tried to give my "report" based on my impressions after a very long day topped with another 5 hours in the evening. I tried to listen passed both unfamiliar systems (BTW, that was my most extensive session with horns) and just tune into the tables. Really hard to do with a 2 hour break in between unfamiliar systems. I do remember trying to pick out the reported warmth and smoothing of the Teres line and it was apparent on the birch table. The increase in dynamics with the 320 was a bit step up and more to what I rememberd from the Galibier. BTW, I still believe that one day I'll find out that the Galibier definitely has the better resolution.

Perhaps if I had started at Chris's and then gone to Thom's, or if I had gone back and forth a time or two I could have come to a more divining statement between the Galibier and Teres sound. I actually may have subconciously, since I have voted with my checkbook for the Galibier.

We'll have to agree to disagree about my stating my impression of Chris's new DD table. I know Thom encourages every one to go a listen to the Teres line as he believes that it plays to the strength of his tables. So I can't see how you would think it is somehow harmful to give an honest impression. You don't agree with me and that's ok. Would you be willing to state what you thought of the new DD Teres? I'd be willing to listen to what you have to say and wish you had spoken up sooner. I did point out that there was a diference in arms and cartridges, but I do believe there was an unmistakeable difference in tempo that the DD had. I don't think the arm and cartridge alone could make up for a perceived difference in speed. Dynamics, most definitely. But, hey, I've been wrong before. If you have read past that one post you will see that I later also questioned what I had heard. Was the applied torque exagerated, overstated, unrealistic? Maybe. I got the impression Chris is not completely satisfied and will be making more changes and improvements as he sees fit. So, perhaps once he's done we can talk some other poor sucker into listening to both the Stelvio and DD and then sticking his neck out and telling us what he/she honestly thought.

Best,

Dan

H John,

I do realize that sometimes what we post and how we post can impact someone's business. When ever I post an opinion on a component I do try to think things through so that I don't post something that would be seen as a condemnation. It is very hard to give an opinion or express an impression on the internet and get the point across. Face to face, or at least phone to phone, will always be the best form of communication. Anyway, what I though you were suggesting I had done was what I try pretty hard to avoid. Thanks for posting back and letting me know that I did not slam either Thom or Chris. Appology accepted, but not really necessary.

I hope you do get a chance to listen again to both tables as I would have loved to stay another day to do just that. I was hoping that someone else who had attended both events that Sat. would offer their opinion. It was tough to come to a solid conclusion with so many variables involved, and I could really use some confirmation or dismissal of what I thought I heard with the Teres DD. Perhaps we'll get a chance to do this again in some fashion at RMAF.

Just for the record, I have had not thought about these tables or their differences since I sent Thom a deposit to buy the Galibier. I am just that comfortable with my decision.