Sbayne,
I have no doubt that your current system brings you much joy. I however must confess that I really adored your former Shindo based system and would have loved to have heard it. Do you feel your current system surpasses the Shindo presentation? Maybe it all the Art Dudley reviews I've read but I get the impression that Shindo gets to the essence of music's beautyand emotion.
Charles |
Sbayne,
I know what you mean by supporting local musicians. Each time I attend a performance I'd like to believe that the money spent contributes to their continued survival. I have such enormous admiration for their talent and mastery of their respective instruments. Also to be truthful it evokes the "man wish I could play like that" response every time 😊. At the core of it all I'm just a music loving guy.
Charles |
Hi Jcarcopo,
I am also an advocate of the "keep it simple " philosophical approach when it comes to components and the audio signal pathway. So I admit the contradiction in preferring the inclusion of a high quality tube preamplifier. Despite adding active circuitry to the pathway, they just give more than they remove in my listening experiences.
This is only my opinion and Lord knows that this topic has been covered ad nauseum 😊. I find myself firmly planted in the active preamplifier camp.
Charles |
Jcarcopo,
Do you have a particular budget range? Yes, based on reading your posts over a period of time I do believe that we have very similar listening dispositions. It seems we both appreciate the "natural" or organic sound of good tube components but avoid the gratuitous artificial warmth coloration of lesser tube designs. There is a hierarchy in the tube equipment universe.
Charles |
Hi teajay and Tom,
The problem is that Jcarcopo already has an active preamplifier (transistor) in the signal chain so he doesn’t need two active preamps in the same path. A zero gain tube buffer could possibly be an option, hard to say.
Charles |
Hi Kenny,
It good to know that the Aric 2A3 SET meets your high expectations, electric print transformers was a very good choice. Do you prefer this amplifier to your LTA ZOTL 40?
It’s clear that you’re quite pleased with this amplifier and it makes music.
I am curious as to how you’ll judge it compared to your soon to arrive Lyngdorf 2170. Very interested in this comparison as to which one will evoke more musical emotional connection. You know, the important stuff 😊.
Charles |
Kenny,
Agree regarding the preamplifier gain issue, 35 db is far too much for virtually any audio system to utilize. You’d literally have no range of the volume control i.e. one click above the 8 o’clock V.C. knob and it’d be too loud even in systems with very inefficient speakers. My Line Stage has 10 dB of gain and that amount is ideal for me.
Kenny if the Aric 2A3 is "more" musical and engaging than the LTA ZOTL and your First Watt amplifiers that’s quite a strong testament and compelling endorsement. So indeed this seems to be an exceptionally good sounding amplifier by your account.
Now the Aric SET versus Lyngdorf 2170 is to say the least truly a contrast on several levels most notably the technology. The bottom line (for me) is music reproduction and which of these two products pulls you closer and deeper into the music you love. Kenny this is going to be a particularly interesting and also an informative comparison. I eagerly await your listening impressions given the high reference point established by the Aric amplifier.
Charles |
Hi Cleeds,
Yes I am aware of the ability to manipulate the volume control taper. My point is that in "practical" terms 35 db is an excessive amount of gain for particularly a preamplifier/line stage. If we differ on that point, we’ll okay. 35 db will be a problem in the vast majority of audio systems even with a controlled taper V.C, Al thanks for your input.
Charles |
Porscheracer,
I had suggested the Sachs, Dehavilland and the Atma-Sphere MP-3 a few weeks ago. I felt that you couldn't go wrong with any of these. I believe that you'll be very happy with your choice.
Charles |
Hi Cleeds,
Aric clarified that level of gain was used for testing purposes and he doesn't use this level in his commercial products. I can’t think of a good reason for that much gain otherwise.
Charles |
I’d agree that the 6NS7 is preferable for preamplifier duty but in Kenny’s power amplifier the task/function is to be a "driver" tube for the 2A3 output tube. So as Aric described above the 6SL7 makes sense. Similar circumstances in my amplifier, the builder chose the 6EM7 over a 6SN7 due to the higher current capability to drive the 300b output tube.
Charles |
Rockytophigh,
Congratulations and it's good to read that you're extremely pleased, that is terrific. What amplifier are you driving the DIs with?
Charles |
Tom,
I have heard that DAC in an all Concert Fidelity system a few times and the sound on each occasion was pure natural music! I believe that you'll be very happy with it.
Charles |
Jcarcopo,
It’s the Japanese Concert Fidelity DAC and exceptionally good sounding. It’s a non over sampling design and ln my opinion is "very" natural in sonic character.
Charles |
Hi Tom,
The distinction you hear between the two DACs is what I would expect. The Perfect Wave is quite a good sounding source, no doubt. The Concert Fidelity DAC does elevate you to a higher tier, more life like and organic. A more emotional listening experience IMO. It seems you got it for a really nice deal, Congratulations this is a genuine long term type of purchase.
Charles |
Musikmann,
Agree with your comment and for certain Kenny knows that as well. Emphasis on the chip type or R2R ladder architecture can be overstated. I/V conversion, analog stage design and power supply quality are as important (if not perhaps even more so ). I’ve heard very good multi chip/R2R and also Delta Sigma topologies.
Charles |
I don’t sense that anyone is suggesting that "natural/organic " and detail are incompatible or an either/or proposition. I agree with Sbayne, by definition if it’s truly natural then detail is present, alive and well.
I do accept the premise that tipped up, bright and analytical leaner character can be misidentified as superior detailed information. Also people may use the same terms but apply different meaning to them. The audio vocabulary isn’t strictly established, so interpretation will vary. I by no means equate rolled off, soft or gratuitous warmth with organic.
Charles |
Sbayne,
For the record I'm with David and find your comments insightful and very worthwhile. I just expect a wide array of perspective on an open audio forum. We are each unique individuals who bring their respective experiences and biases.
Charles |
Audiopitbull,
Well said and true. These open audio forums are communication terminals and a fun and effective way to converse with what are essentially strangers who have a common interest or even passion.
I've learned quite a lot from these threads over the years and have been exposed to new and unfamiliar products as a result. When we find something that improves our listening pleasure it's fun to spread the news.
It seems to me that any reasonable person would realize that these are all personal impressions and not interpret them as the gospel or as absolutes.
Charles |
Micheal,
Thank you for your very kind comments.
Yeah I post quite a bit I'll confess, I watch very little television and this allows time for reading, listening to music and participation on this enjoyable forum.
A few years ago at RMAF I heard the Vaughn speakers driven by the Wavelength Cardinal SET amplifier and it was quite a good sounding match. I'm certain that your audio system sounds captivating and very engaging.
Michael this is as you note an interesting thread with friendly and mature posters. Your comments are most welcome here. Corelli I hope you don't mine my invitation of others to your creation (thread) 😊😊.
Charles |
Hi Michael
I took you comment about my frequent posting as a factual observation 😊 absolutely no negative inference at all.
Hi Corelli,
I didn't c"cringe" although I can’t speak for Tom (Mac48025) 😊.
I'm truly an advocate of trusting your ears which is what you're doing with obvious success.
Charles |
Hi Evolvist,
The Linn lacks an amplifier section so what power amplifier did you used in direct comparison to the Lyngdorf 2170 which has its own power amplifier section?
You comments are interesting and somewhat contrary to the near universal praise of the Lyngdorf by those who have heard it. I get the impression that Kenny is as impressed with the Lyngdorf 2170 as much as Grannyring is.
Obviously the power amplifier used with the Linn component exerts some degree of sonic influence. The Lyngdorf 2170 seems to be a fascinating audio product . Yet you find the Linn to be in your opinion "by more than a few miles" superior to the 2170 as a result of comparison in your system. I acknowledge the subjectivity of it all but find this very interesting. I’m looking forward to reading Kenny’s more in depth Lyngdorf listening impressions.
Charles |
Al,
Thanks for that additional information. At roughly 5x the cost the Linn "should" be sonically superior to the Lyngdorf or why on earth would anyone buy it. In terms of features it offers less (most notable its lack of an amplifier) but sometimes more expensive products are minimalist in design intentionally.
It’s really sound quality that’s the overwhelming criteria in an audio product comparison since they’re being purchased to listen to (presumably). Common sense tells me that not everyone will find the Linn better sounding than the Lyngdorf.
In fact there’s the possibility that an equal number or even a majority of listeners could prefer the Lyngdorf despite it being 1/5 the cost (and it is complete with an amplifier). As is always the case, listening encounters will determine which one is preferable to a given listener.
Charles |
Hi David,
Not quite sure of your "the comparative doesn’t apply"
Evolvist just mentioned his personal comparison of the two products. You can compare "any" products if you have them available (as he apparently did). Yes, his is only "1" opinion but I find it interesting and worth a discussion.
You say they don’t play on the same field? By who’s or what standard is this determined? Price? This thread has demonstrated that price isn’t an always effective determinant. The Double Impacts have been preferred over considerably more expensive speakers by many posters on this thread.
Any audio products can be compared and judged by listening to them. Sound quality and music reproduction are what matters.
Charles |
Hi Tom,
Thank you and I look forward to visiting again and listening to the new additions to your system. I know how good the Concert Fidelity DAC sounds and am very interested in hearing the Aric SEP amplifier. I'll bring along a few recordings I really enjoy and that you may possibly like as well.
Charles |
Hi Kenny,
I suspect that the Lyngdorf sounds wonderful and eagerly await your review. I wish you lived nearby (like Tom) as I’d love to hear this very interesting component in your system.
Charles |
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the initial report. Increased refinement? Just what I had suspected would be the case, improving an already fine speaker. I'm curious to read Teajay’s comments on these speakers.
Charles |
Hi Evolvist,
Thanks much for the additional insightful comments. I’m not disputing your comparison results at all, you’ve heard both and I’ve heard neither. What caught my attention/curiosity was the miles ahead analogy used.
It simply made me wonder what the Linn must sound like to create such a performance gulf between it and the highly regarded Lyngdorf. Your follow up post leads me to understand your perspective more clearly. The Linn/Lyngdorf may be analogous to the Double Impact/Wilson Sasha comparison done earlier in this thread. Vastly different price strata yet sonically competitive to some listeners. You just never know until you actually listen.
Charles
|
Hi Teajay,
Thank you very much for your listening impressions of the Double Impact SEs. Ezra's comparison comment with regard to the SE versus the Sonus faber Lilum is quite bold to say the least given the 10x price ratio of the two.
Teajay do you really agree with his assessment or is there perhaps a "bit" of hyperbole and exuberance involved? 😊
Charles |
Teajay,
Thanks for your affirmative comments as they’re illuminating. This is what I was getting at in an earlier discussion today regarding the Linn and Lyngdorf cost ratio and performance. The High End market can "sometimes" be deceptive and contrarian with regard to cost, prestige and pecking orders. Very tricky at times.
Charles |
Evolvist, Well, to be frank there’s no "you’re so full of crap part" I’m sorry you perceive my inquiry and comments this way. Yes I am aware of the obtaining that last 1 % level and this final quest can often be an expensive commitment. All of this is understood. Your Pinto/Cadillac and sports ticket analogies confirm (to me ) you missed my point.
We do agree (I think) that by its very nature judging or determining value, true performance upgrade decisions, getting that final 1% are individually and subjectively rooted. I do believe that generally speaking you get what you have paid for. There are exceptions to this axiom, particularly so in High End audio.
In your case I clearly understand your reasoning and explanation for preferring the Linn over the Lyngdorf, makes perfect sense based on your experience with both. I do not question your choice of the Linn. My only observation is another listener could hear both and choose the Lyngdorf as "their"preference. That simple and nothing more. You could believe that they’re simply fooling themselves yet they may be absolutely genuine in their belief. This is the nature of subjectivity and perception.
Many audiophiles would/could be skeptical and dismissive of Ezra’s finding the Tekton Double Impact SE superior sounding to the "far" more expensive YG Acoustics, Magico and Sonus Faber he has owned. Actually I believe there are those who would flat out reject the very idea and probably question Ezra’s taste and hearing acumen. No way is this possible despite his and teajay’s opinion to the contrary. No way is this possible some would insist vociferously.
One could say that You and Ezra achieved that coveted 1 % in alternative ways. You by spending more for the Linn and Ezra by spending less for the DI SE relative to his more expensive former speakers. In both cases one could conclude, mission accomplished. Both of you are happy and satisfied with your respective choices. There are without question audio products that occupy different levels of a hierarchy. Most often than not you pay the cost of admission to get there.
Sometimes you can get there without paying this higher rate of admission. In Ezra’s situation this seems to be the happy outcome.
Charles |
Hi Tom,
Congratulations on ordering the Double Impact SE speakers. Wow! You’ve been on a serious ( but well thought out) upgrading spree lately 😊.
Concert Fidelity 040 DAC, Aric SEP amplifier and these speakers. In my opinion you are assembling an exceptionally fine audio system which is going to sound divine. Each choice you’ve made makes plenty of sense. I’m really looking forward to hearing your evolving creation.
Charles |
Jcarcopo,
My speaker’s drivers are all Scanspeak, two 10" woofers, two 6,5" midrange and their esteemed 1" Revelator tweeter. So to a certain degree I see your point concerning presumed upgrade drivers. However I’d give Eric much benefit of the doubt regarding his choice of drivers in the SE speakers.
I know that the bottom line for you is how do they sound? This is the only meaningful goal. Based on early listening impressions feedback it seems to me that these are truly top caliber sophisticated speakers. My gut feeling is that these speakers driven by your excellent Art Audio 300b amplifier will sound stunningly good. I really believe that would be your outcome.
Charles |
Hi Musikmann,
Yes as I acknowledged people do have certain expectations as the cost rises. My perspective is the major justification for more expensive parts is they will provide improved sound quality. Believe me, I am an advocate of high quality part utilization "if" it means better sound (and reliability). If Eric gets superb sound with the SE's chosen drivers I say more power to him 😊.
As far as cosmetics are concerned I do appreciate attractive and elegant audio components but recognize the truly subjective nature of taste.
Charles |
Mofojo,
To clarify I don't own the Double Impacts. I was referring to the Coincident Total Eclipse II speakers I have. I was just giving an example of speakers that have Scanspeak drivers due to them being the topic of recent posts.
Charles |
Hi Jcarcopo,
Thanks, I understand more clearly now your "ultimate" objective and I hope it all comes to fruition for you.
Charles |
Waltersalas,
I just assumed that Shadome has listening experience with the Double Impacts but I certainly could be wrong. Otherwise how could one express such a definitive opinion without actual listening contact? Again I may be working with an incorrect assumption.
Charles |
Hi Jcarcopo,
For me it isn't a case of being "too" polite, I'm just asking him to support his comments. Either he's heard the Double Impacts or he hasn't. I'm open to anyone's opinion on a forum such as this one. I don't expect everyone to agree with my listening impressions. I do expect people to present a reasonable or credible basis for their comments. That’s all.
Charles |
He Shadome,
Clement Perry has the Double Impacts in his listening room and with components he’s intimately familiar with. I’ve read numerous reviews by him over the years and if anything he tends to gravitate to and favor the higher cost upper end products.
He has been exposed to the very upper echelon of the audio high end.
So it seems his high regard for Tekton Double Impacts is sincere and certainly has context. You may not agree with his conclusions (which is fair) but he is a legitimate and very respected reviewer and listener (as is Teajay). Shadome what is your listening impressions of the Double Impacts and where do they fall short based upon your experience with them compared to the speakers you find preferable? What inspires the automobile analogy?
Thanks,
Charles |
Hi Premnath,
Congratulations on getting the Double Impact SE and I believe that they will mate in excellent fashion with your amplifier. No regrets in my opinion.
Hi Walter,
Your Line Magnetic 508ia with the SE versions? I honestly believe this would be an extraordinary pairing, no doubt whatsoever 😊
Charles |
Shadorne,
In an earlier post today I asked you to share your listening impression of the Double Impacts. It seems clear that you have no actual direct listening experience with these speakers. Your car analogy is simply a function of how you believe things should be as opposed to how they may actually be.
Audio is simple in this regard, you listen to a product and form an opinion. Subjective? It's all that we have, you must hear something in order to properly judge its merit and performance. You present no factual basis for your Double Impact assessment. Apparently you've determined that you have it figured out based on their cost and nothing more.
As mentioned above byVitop and I raised a couple of weeks ago, there is a strong element of snobbery in High End audio amongst some. You appear to fall into this niche. You haven't heard the Double Impact and likely feel that you don't need to. You've determined its sonic performance based solely on its cost. Not a rational position in my opinion.
Charles |
David,
I have much appreciation for you as you know. Here's my take, Shadorne is dismissive of Clement Perry and Teajay due to their praise of a speaker heard in their respective systems. It bothers him that they both find the DI comparable or even better than more expensive speakers. More expensive speakers they have formally reviewed in their main listening system by the way.
Shadorne finds this unacceptable and besmirches the credibility of both! Shadorne has zero listening experience with this same speaker. He has no reference point or context other than price point. David my friend, what am I missing here?
Charles |
David,
I respectfully disagree with your post 😊. This has been and continues to be an open thread with different viewpoints and experiences expressed. No rule says we all must agree (and we don’t). You wrote that we see and "hear" differently and that is true. Keyword is hear. So what has Shadorne heard regarding the DI to base his opinion on?
Of course he’s free to post comments here and by the same token people are free to ask for clarification or some modicum of substance to support what he writes. Is this asking too much? To me this is what dialogue is all about. How is he in a position to judge performance of a product he has never heard? How is this enlightenment?
Charles |
Eric,
Good point, but again the feedback from dissatisfied customers is based on them having heard the speaker. Would you accept negative feedback from someone who hasn't even listened to the speakers?
Charles |
Hi David,
Well it looks like we have different perspectives on this matter. I feel the same as Mac and Vitop, someone "hears" the speaker and doesn’t like them, okay no problem. Someone says the speaker isn’t as good as speaker A orB because it doesn’t cost enough is a silly argument IMO. These are very different scenarios which generate different responses. Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. You are still my brother 😊.
Charles |
David,
I suspect that we agree more than we disagree. You cited Ezra and that’s a good example because he has solid context. His DI SE speakers compared to his expensive Sonus Fabers. You can agree or not with his personal experiences but he does have vital and very credible context. I’ll be the first to say that there are superb sounding expensive speakers.
A few examples that impressed me significantly
Kaiser Kawero
Tidal Contriva Diadora
Cessaro Liszt
Rockport Altair speakers
Trenner-Friendl RA Box
Dynaudio Evidence Platinum
TAD Reference One floorstanding
These were all truly excellent in the respective systems I heard them in.
My gut feeling is take the Double Impact SE pair it with a superb source and first rate amplification, it won’t be embarrassed (and not claiming that it would be better). Just a hunch on my part. Just listen.
Charles |
Hi Aric,
I can see the advantages of a parallel SET (PSET) design. One issue I’ve seen raised concerning this parallel configuration is maintaining equal power sharing from each tube in the pair. Apparently there’s a tendency for one of the tubes to become dominant and the other tube provides lesspower/current output.
Audio Note has been making PSETs for a long time and I assume that they have solved this problem. It seems that some other PSETs perhaps not. PSET 2A3 or 300b would seem a very good fit with the Double Impact/SE.
Charles |
Aric,
Thanks for the reply. Yes, eventual "drifting"-of matched tubes was the concern. Your solution of having separate bias control for each output tube seems as though it would solve that problem. Aric regarding hum are you a proponent of DC heating versus AC heating in low power SETs or is either acceptable to you?
Charles |
Hi Aric,
I really appreciate your clear and thorough answer. Some really hard core diehards tend to favor AC heating particularly for the 45 and 2A3 tubes. The 300b seems to be the dividing point (in terms of power) and above this level (say 211 or 845) then DC is preferable for the reasons you gave.
I've had some very experienced builders say the same as you in that DC can sound every bit as good as AC. Given your knowledge I was interested in your take on this topic. Thanks again.
Charles |
Tom,
It sounds like you're having a ball with your new KT 88 SEP amplifier. You may not be able to contain yourself once you get the DI SE paired with this amplifier 😊.
Charles |
