Vitop,
The Lyngdorf model used by Bill is essentially a DAC, preamplifier and power amplifier. Assuming that it in fact sounds as good as he says then it’s a tremendous value proposition. If it outperformed his previous system of Luxman DAC,TRL DUDE line stage and a good tube or SS amplifier, this is genuine value and obvious simplicity,
"If" it could honestly duplicate the purity and organic rightness of my Yamamoto DAC (with Duelund CAST coupling capacitors) DHT Line Stage and DHT SET amplifier I’d buy it like yesterday. All that’s important to me is the sound quality. I have a breath of life quality that I won’t do without.
Charles |
Hi Bill,
Your response posted before mine by mere moments, same thought pattern however 😊
Charles |
Hi Bill,
I really appreciate your very kind comments (I know you only write/say what you truly mean). I do believe that the Lyngdorf is as good as you describe. Although it may not seem like it given my admiration /affection for DHT tube based electronics, I am open minded to the new and different.
Being the pragmatist that I can be at certain times, I just like to hear an audio product prior to forming any conclusions. Bill I strongly suspect that we’d enjoy each other’s audio systems very much.
Charles |
Brotw,
Here’s my 2 cents worth based on what you’re seeking and music listening habits. Get the Double Impacts and drive them with The Triode Labs 2A3 SET (I definitely trust Teajay’s review and amplifier comparisons he has shared). It you feel that you want or need more power then get the Line Magnetic 845 or 805 SET.
I believe that you’ll have truly marvellous sound quality and there will be no looking back. Follow your instincts as I believe they’re guiding you in the right direction. You will have a very organic, realistic flesh on the bone presentation and high emotional involvement with your music. You’ll replace "weary" ears with happy satisfied ears. 😊, good luck.
Charles
|
Evolvist,
You are most certainly right, all amplifiers regardless of topology present some degree of tradeoffs, this is unavoidable. Super low distortion as a result of utilizing NFB then introduces the unwanted higher odd order distortion (5th,7th and 9th) that Ralph (Atmasphere) has described often on this forum. It’s always going to be some form of compromise/tradeoff to content with. Best solution is to choose what sounds right/better to your ears and accept the fact that it is not perfect in every sonic parameter, nothing is.
Charles |
Brotw,
I believe that you’ll be very happy with either the Triode Labs 2A3 SET or the Line Magnetic 218i a 845 SET amplifiers. It seems that the 218ia is a scaled down version of the 518ia. Some people have some hesitation about LM because it’s a Chinese product. I believe there’s ample evidence that LM is a genuine high quality line.
Triode Labs has earned a very good reputation for being a high quality manufacturer. I can see the attraction to the higher power offered by the 845 tubed LM 218ia. It may be a question of what sound do you want? Well implemented 2A3 or 845. I happen to like the sound of a good 845 SET, Teajay on the other hand doesn’t like the 845 sound. As is usually the case it’s a matter of preference.
I have no doubt the 2A3 SET driving the DI sound as good as Teajay described. Factoring in value/-performance, a used LM 218ia would be tough to beat. Putting better quality tubes in the amplifier (particularly the 12AX7 in the preamp section) would be very cost effective. I’m not sure if the preamp section is by passable for use with a separate preamplifier. I believe that both of these manufacturers pay appropriate attention to power supply and transformer quality which make or break when it comes to a sucessful SET amplifier design.
Charles |
Brotw,
From all indications I’m aware of the 508ia is a higher tier amplifier in all regards compared with the 218ia. No put down of the 218ia at all. According to fellow audiogoners Wig and Waltersalas the 508ia (805 tube) is extraordinarily good. I trust both of them given their long track records on this site. Good ears and experienced with many high end products. Only thing is I'm not sure about transformer voltage conversion/compatibility.
Charles |
Hello Teajay,
Thanks for the initial cursory listening impression of the Tekton Ulfberths. I find it so interesting that this speaker and the Double Impacts are so easy to drive. Your room has considerable cubic volume to say the least. It's near fascinating that the 3.5 watt Triode Labs 2A3 SET can fill your hugh volume of space in such a satisfying manner.
Again we have something else in common, the Star Sound Sistrum Apprentice platefms. I use them beneath my speakers and every component in my system. This is an effective and excellent product. |
I’ll go one step further Teajay. The problem is not exclusively with some "print " reviewers but high end consumers as well who will reject the idea of lower cost audio products performing at high levels. There is a mindset that believes the more costly then surely the better.
It’s true that "generally"speaking you get what you pay for but there are more than a few exceptions to this type of thought process. Teajay as you well know, you have to actually listen to components and form an impression.
Charles |
Hi Corelli,
I glad your wife approves and I believe that she’d enjoy the Frankensteins driving your Double Impacts. In addition to her good taste no doubt she posses good ears as well 😊..
Charles |
Hi Terry,
As you know there are a number of Double Impact owners very happily using solid state amplifiers. Do you plan to use your Pass Labs XA 60 .8 with the Ulfberths to give a contrast comparison to your Triode Labs 2A3 SET. I strongly suspect that the Ulfberths will reveal all that both fine amplifiers have to offer and their differences.
Charles |
Hi Mac,
I believe that your stated plans and future acquisitions are on the mark and you're going to be happy to an extraordinary degree 😊.
Charles |
Thuhalle,
It is my understanding that the "SE" version of the Double Impacts has all Scanspeak drivers as well as an upgraded crossover parts package. I strongly suspect that this version could have the increased "refinement " (at least to some extent) that Teajay hears listening to the Ulfberths .
Charles |
Hi Terry,
Given the larger cabinet and thus increased internal volume of the Ulfberths do you sense or believe that they're even more sensitive/efficient compared to the Double Impact?
Charles |
Terry,
Well I had a strong suspicion the Ulfberths may have a higher sensitivity given that your 3 watt amplifier fills such a hugh listening space.
Hi Corelli,
Is this tube amplifier OTL or a high powered push pull ? Your wife might view my amplifier favorably, there are 3 tubes per mono block 😊
Charles |
Hello Cal 37 13 and Adam,
Ordinarily I’d suggest choosing the higher speaker impedance if that’s an offered option. Ralph (Atmasphere) has pointed out numerous times that in addition to an easier load for the amplifier there’s less distortion produced driving the higher impedance.
It appears that the Double Impacts are an exceptionally easy load despite their 4 ohm impedance (probably relatively flat impedance curve and no steep phase angles). Cal I suspect that the Frankenstein’s 8 ohm tap would likely be sucessful driving the 4 ohm Double Impacts.
A phone call or email to Israel Blume sure wouldn’t hurt.
Charles |
Adam,
I relate to your 300b vs el 34 amplifier and preferring the 300b.
I have an el 34 40 watt amplifier and a 100 watt PP amplifier (60 watt Triode mode). I am currently listening to a First Watt S.I.T.amplifier (40 watt push pull special D.I.Y. design of Nelson Pass ). Perhaps the best solid state amplifier I've heard (generous loan from an audiogon buddy 😊).
Yet in direct comparison the 300b SET is more natural in tone and timbre, more 3 dimensional, lively and just has that elusive "breath of life " quality that the excellent First Watt can't match. Bottom line, the First Watt is overall a sonically impressive amplifier, the SET conveys more emotion and soul.
Charles |
Hi Cal 37 13,
1 Al as is par for the course raises legitimate concerns.
2 As several of us have suggested see what Israel thinks about this potential amp and speaker pairing.
3 I’d also seek feedback from Eric, is this a good match or would he recommend the Double Impact 8 ohm version?
4 As I wrote earlier the Double Impacts "may" be an exception in this scenario.
If you decide to talk to Israel and Eric let us know what they suggest.
The Coincident Frankenstein switched to 4 and 8 ohm speaker taps a few years ago.
You and I have the earlier (original) 8 and 16 ohm tap model.
Charles |
Most speakers unless specifically designed for near wall/boundary placement will sound better when given breathing room. Teajay I hope your post is taken as well meaning constructive criticism. Your recommendations can only yield improved sound quality I would think. Now if there is no further space then you simply play the hand you were dealt. This would necessitate strong consideration of room treatment of some degree.
Charles |
Hi Corelli,
Hey, I love discussing music and products that can hopefully improve the home listening experience 😊.
Charles |
Jeffery,
Based on the posts submitted tonight it's clear that people admire your audio system and certainly appreciate your contributions and input to this thread. I truly believe that Teajay had no intention of offending you with his critical but potentially helpful comments. I hope that you reconsider your decision to apparently exit this valuable thread. It is clear to me that you derive much pleasure from your home audio system regardless of speaker placement and or room constraints.
Charles |
David,
Very well said.
Bullitt,
No doubt that your system sounds good with close proximity of speaker and wall. The point is can "good" be advanced to exceptional or even extraordinary sound due to superior positioning . If "possible" why not experiment with speaker placement and see what happens?
Charles |
Terry know
I enjoy reading your periodic listening updates. What amplifier is Michael Wright going to use with the Double Impacts? He has the Wilson Sasha I believe nearly 10x the cost of the DI speakers. This will be a very interesting comparison with the speakers as the sole variable in his system.
Charles |
Terry,
It seems that the Triode Labs 2A3 amplifier/Ulfberths impressed your three experienced visitors in the large listening space. Nonetheless I suspect the 3 watt power specification is a formidable barrier for "some" to overcome regardless of the touted sublime sound quality.
Charles |
Hi Terry,
Just to be clear I completely get and understand your point, been there and done that. However you have considerable experience in the audiophile community and know the popular held mantra of "the more power the better". I’m just pointing out that despite your very well documented listening sessions of various types of amplifiers driving the Double Impacts, 3 watt SET won’t cut it. "Just not enough power " in spite of your multiple power amplifier use with these speakers. I’m just making an observation based on behavior/psychology of certain (certainty not all) mindsets.
Further clarification, I’m not critical of those who possess this mindset. I bring it up because I sense your genuine enthusiasm with this amplifier/speaker pairing and just wanting to share this splendid discovery with fellow music lovers. You realize that the Tekton Double Impacts and the Ulfberths allow one to fully exploit low power amplifiers and especially SET. Unique speakers for sure.
Charles |
Mac,
If you and I can ever coordinate our schedules I’d bring my Frankenstein (with its 8 and 16 ohm taps) and we can simply listen to how they interact with your DIs from their 8 ohm tap. I’ll be back in Michigan in a few days.
Cal,
The Frankenstein works wonderfully with the Coincident Eclipse line of speakers and their Triumph Extreme monitor speakers. It seems that the other Coincident speakers need the Coincident Dragon mono blocks or suitable amplifier with more than 8 watts. I truly believe that the Line Magnetic 845 or 805 tubed SET amplifiers would be excellent with your Coincident PRE speakers.
If Mac and I are able to get together I’ll surely report to you how the Frankenstein and Double Impacts fared as a pairing. Grannyring (Bill) you’re right, this is all about subjective preferences. I do believe Terry in that the Double Impact and Triode Labs sound better than "any" other amp/speakers match he has heard in his review/main system and this includes many fine audio products over the years.
Charles |
Terry,
I am I'm agreement with you regarding the Pioneer M 22 power amplifier. It has the reputation as a serious purposed amplifier with a very stout high quality power supply and pure class A circuit. It should mate very well with the Double Impacts. I see no rational reason why it should not.
Charles |
I suppose that I may assume too much sometimes. I expect that others do recognize that opinion and perspective expressed on open forums are indeed just "personal" experiences and not proclamations. I’m a fan of good SET amplifiers and appreciate their virtues. It doesn’t go beyond that simple admission and is certainly no decree admonishing everyone to do the same, hardly.
Charles |
Hi Mac,
If you don’t mind would you email me your phone number and I will call you Thursday evening. Just a reminder the current Frankenstein MK II SET have 4 and 8 ohm speaker taps. My version has 8 and 16 ohm speaker taps. So I'm curious to hear the outcome.
Charles |
Kenny’’s approach to directly comparing amplifiers (or any audio product) is very similar to what I do as well. It is to your advantage to select recordings that you are very familiar with and also enjoy. I usually play about 5 different songs (sometimes more). Just relax and listen, you don’t have to take an excessive analytical attitude where you attempt to scrutinize/itemize every sonic aspect. This is artificial and is not a natural listening mindset.
I’ll make the assumption that you love music and with a passion so there is undeniably emotion involved. Simply listen to the same selection of your music through both amplifiers (after a thorough warm up). Trust your ear/brain processing ability and your spontaneous reaction to what you hear.
At some juncture during this listening period you’ll find that one of these amplifiers connects you to the music (emotional involvement) more than the other. One will emerge as the amplifier that when in use seems to increase the enjoyment of listening to your music.
At this point of awareness you will realize which amplifier is allowing more genuine joy and pleasure of conveying the impact and innate beauty of music you love. This is a natural process and will eventually unfold if you relax and just let it happen. In my opinion audio components are simply conduits to connect you to the fundamental objective, enjoying music.
Charles |
The beauty of High End Audio is the very talented/committed people who produce excellent sounding products. Quite a few are one man operations. Positive word of mouth commentary is obviously good for their business and significantly increases demand. Inevitably this demand exceeds current supply and manufacturing capacity. These are essentially hand made products and can’t be mass produced off an automated assembly line. It will be interesting to see how Tekton manages its rapidly growing business scenario.
I wish them success.
Charles |
Porscheracer,
Thanks for the initial listening impressions of the two amplifiers. I was confident that if you just listen and focus on the music things would naturally sort themselves out. I’m not surprised that you and your wife express a decided preference for the Pioneer amplifier, more "natural and live" sounding as your wife pointed out. Pure class A well implemented will do that 😊. Watt quality versus watt quantity in my humble opinion . Congratulations.
Charles |
Hi Kenny,
In terms of the tonality of musical instruments and human voice what differences (if any) are there between the 2A3 SET and your LTA ZOTL 40 amplifier?
Charles |
Kenny,
I have complete confidence that you will sort out all of the numerous details and have a terrific custom amplifier built that will mate superbly to the Double Impacts.
You raised the issue of 4 ohm versus the 8 ohm tap for driving these speakers. This is my only reservation regarding my amplifier, the lack of 4 ohm speaker taps. Not sure how much of a compromise this may be. If it sounds good with the 8 ohm taps then I’d be convinced that the current Frankenstein models which have 4 ohm taps would be even better sounding with the Double Impacts. . We shall see shortly.
Charles |
Hi Kenny,
Thank you for your listening impressions of these two very fine amplifiers. Teajay has very good ears and has heard many High quality components over the years. You’ve heard many good amplifiers over the years as well and have a sense of perspective. It’s not surprising that both of you hear virtually the same attributes with a good quality 2A3 SET. No doubt that the ZOTL M2Z is a definite asset to the overall sound.
Kenny I’ve been told that the Yamamoto 300b SET has a warmer character than the Coincident Frankenstein MK II (more neutral in relative terms). We’ll see what transpires at Mac’s home later this week to hear his Double Impacts driven by the Frankensteins. .
Charles |
Kenny,
The stainless steel chassis of the Frankenstein is actually understated and elegant when seen in person, it isn’t gaudy at all in my opinion. The Aric Audio looks interesting and makes me wonder how it compares to the Triode Labs amplifier. I suspect that Aric can build you an excellent custom SET amplifier. The Double Impacts clearly allow you tremendous flexibility in amplifier selection.
Charles |
Agree with Bill regarding point to point vs a circuit board and also the output transformer. Kenny get the best output transformer you can comfortably afford if you decide to go the custom route (I know you realize this). That choice can literally make or break the success of a truly special SET amplifier.
Charles |
Bill,
Good transformer suggestions. There are excellent Japanese choices available but they are quite costly. The Frankenstein uses Japanese double C core transformers and no question that they're excellent quality. No question either that they're the most expensive part in that amplifier as well.
Charles |
Kenny,
That was a beautiful summation on the unique qualities of DHT SET, very well expressed my friend, heightened musical involvement. I'm glad you rediscovered it😊.
Charles |
Hi Kenny,
Overbuilt power supply and a good quality output transformer, Kenny I knew you’d get it all sorted out 😊. I believe that you’ll have a very high quality 2A3 SET amplifier for an exceptionally reasonable price. What a wonderful match with your Double Impacts.
Kenny you’re getting excellent sound with the Cyber 2A3 SET and I suspect that the Aric custom built amplifier will be a noticeable step upward. What will be your choice of coupling capacitors and what type of internal wire? You have the ears and experience to get this completely right.
Charles |
Hi Kenny,
Thanks for the detailed reply, you are definitely on the right track. My 300b Frankenstein has interstage transformers as does my Coincident Statement Line Stage (101D tubes which are DHT). I can see no reason why your 2A3 which is also DHT could not use an interstage transformer as well. Going this route and with mono block construction sounds like a fabulous idea. Bill (Grannyring) could suggest some excellent choices for capacitors and wire, he has tried "many" over the years. Your Double Impacts are going to sing to the heavens 😊
Charles |
Kenny,
I appreciate the fact that you want to adhere to a specified budget for your custom made amplifier. I do agree with Bill's recommendation of using film capacitors rather than electrolytic capacitors in the power supply if this doesn't disrupt the budget. This is amplifier can really be a first rate product with specific choices/decisions.
Charles |
Hi Tom (Mac),
Thank you for inviting me into your home to hear the Double Impacts and I really appreciated your very gracious hospitality. Tom and I first listened to the speakers driven by the LTA MZ2-S. Well I finally heard this "1" watt component in action. It does in fact drive these speakers and furthermore the resultant sound quality is good. I just wanted to confirm that point.
We then listened to the same recordings using the MZ2-S as a line stage and the mono block Frankenstein MK II 300b SET. In a very short period of time Tom and I simultaneously heard the quite noticeable difference the amplifiers made. Essentially more of everything, air, more fleshed out tonal body,weight and harmonic color and richness.
Relatively speaking the music came alive with increased drive,energy dynamic contrast and definitely more emotional involvement. Piano and the drum kit in particular were clearly more present, powerful and believable. Miles ' trumpet and Coltrane's tenor saxophone became more tactile and realistic. I was very impressed with the music reproduction in Tom's room, it just opened up and came alive!
As I told Tom there's room for further improved IMO. Using the 8 ohm tap of the amp driving the 4 ohm Double Impacts is not the ideal connection (despite the really good sound we heard). I believe that a Frankenstein with the 4 ohm speaker tap is going to sound superior with the better impedance match.
It was a very enjoyable afternoon and Tom is a friendly and easy to like person. My belief is that if Tom buys the Frankenstein or any "high" quality SET amplifier he is going to have a genuinely top notch home audio system to cherish for many years.
To be very clear, his current sound using the M2Z-S as an amplifier quite good. Unquestionably there is a sizable step upward with the insertion of the 300b mono blocks.
Charles |
Hi Bill,
Off course I was describing the sound of the system as a whole (there's no other way). To try and isolate the speakers is difficult. It is obvious to me that they are truly resolved and honest as the sound changes starkly given a changing variable (in this case, amplifier and the recordings). This is exactly what an excellent speaker should do.
Female vocals, piano and various brass instruments all sound natural and believable. In audiophile jargon, soundstage, imaging and separation/layering are done at a high level of competence. More relevant to what moves me, tone, timbre, musical ebb and flow, engagement, it's there.
This speaker will simply reflect what ever you place before it in the signal pathway for better or worse. Bill this is a very good speaker and makes me wonder how good the "SE" version is with the upgraded Scanspeak drivers.
Charles |
Kenny,
In Tom's room the Double Impacts can provide a good sound stage rendition and avoid the sound emanating from the face of the speaker effect. This ability varied with the recording as one would expect.
Tom, your system did a commendable job of distinguishing the tone of Art Pepper's and Cannonball Adderley's (Miles CD) alto saxophones. These two musicians play the same instrument with clearly different sound/voices.
Charles |
Kenny,
Your comments about the 2A3 amplifier are particularly interesting because I know how pleased you were/are with the LTA ZOTL 40 amplifier driving the Double Impacts.
Charles |
Mack71,
I agree with Corelli, the Double Impacts are going to pretty much reproduce the character of the front end source, amplifier and cables used in the audio signal chain. Based on my listening experience with them there's relatively little editorializing taking place.
If for example you choose to utilize a 500 watt class D or a 5 watt tube amplifier you're going to hear the intrinsic sonic character of that specific amplifier. If you likee the sound of your Emotiva solid state amplifier the Double Impact won't alter their signature much at all . This is why you'll find on this thread Double Impact owners happy with transistors and others happy with tubes.
Charles |
Mac71,
Tom has heard his Double Impacts driven by 5 different amplifiers. Odyssey (solid state), Decware Torii, Raven Audio, LTA M2Z-S and Coincident Frankenstein , the latter 4 are tube amplifiers . He could "easily" hear the differences of sonic character amongst all of them.
Charles |
Hello grey9hound,
This is an ongoing active thread and as a result new friendships and connections have evolved. As Bill (Grannyring) astutely pointed out conversations do develop and are openly discussed. I've been an active participant on this thread even though I have no experience with Tekton products.
I found this thread to be both interesting and friendly and appreciate the insight and experiences of the "many" posters. As would be expected with such a large and active thread other topics do arise, for example power amplifier comments. You have to drive the speakers with something 😊
I accepted a friendly offer to hear the Double Impacts in Tom's home and I simply wanted to share that enjoyable experience. It subsequently generated further comments and discussion.
Isn't that what you were seeking? It's hard to predict what people may or may not respond to. This is the nature of open forums, spontaneous interactions and exchanges. In my case there's been much discussion here about SET amplifiers with the Double Impacts. Some here were interested in the match of my 300b amplifier and Tom's speakers. Nothing more than that.
Charles |
In this price range a number of knowledgeable listeners are very impressed with the Don Sachs preamplifier. An excellent used option is the Atma-Sphere MP-3, very high caliber product. |
