Tekton Double Impacts

Well Schiit.... that is a hell of a price.

Kenny, by definition the Vidar must be worth a Schiit.

I wish the Vidar had a DAC also. I would really consider adding it to my computer. Overkill, but the speakers I want to add to the computer are not very efficient.

Yes, I see they have separate DACs but since this is for a computer, I want as few things on the desk as possible.

Jeffrey
I have a question as to the Ulf vs DI comparison now that you have had them for a while.

Is the soundstage or "3d" presence of the Ulf any different than the DI? Specifically openness, holographic or whatever other words come to mind when trying to describe it.

Jeffrey:

Tremendous. There is only one speaker that I heard that was head and shoulders above the DIs. And that includes the Sonus Faber, Wilsons, etc that go into 6 figures. And where the difference was, was the holographic 3d sound. I spoke to Eric and he assured me that the Ulf would be there.
But hell, we are talking about a $3000 set of speakers going up against speakers costing tens of thousands of dollars and holding it’s own. I would say a roaring success for the DIs regardless.

Willgolf:

I happen to love Wilson speakers. They have many fans and many detractors, but for the life of me I can't understand what there is not to like about their sound. They sound very good to me. I've heard many in their line and obviously I like some more than others, but they all are very musical as far as I am concerned.

Jeffrey --

I also wanted to ask another Ulf question. Have you heard any speakers that sound better than the Ulf? And I mean any speaker at any price.

Craig:
I had never heard of Lyngdorf. They have some really interesting technology. Glad you shared that.

Hi David:

No, not much of anything. I spoke to Eric last week and they were being painted. I am going to call him at the end of next week to see if they are together and he has heard and compared them to the full size Ulfs yet.

I have a specific sound target in my mind that I would like them to meet or exceed based on another speaker. I can't wait to get them and be able to see what they are like. The only thing I have to go on was on this thread where a pair of Ulfs replaced a set of DIs and they were better in the areas I am looking for, so I think I will be happy when I get them.

Sebrof:

Are you near Houston? I can recommend a dealer that has them (it's where I heard them)

Evolvist:

I have not figured out how to PM on here either, although I have had others PM me. SO I guess I'll just post the information publicly and maybe someone else can get something out of it.

I heard them at Raven Audio. Dave is the owner. You can reach him at 936-662-5100.

Great guy and has some good stuff there. Let him know that I gave you his info. I won't do anything for me but I do want him to know that I appreciated the time he spent with us and that I am referring people to him when I can. I owe him that. He was waiting for equipment to come in and some venders were slowing him down. He was setting stuff up in a huge storm that knocked power out and he came in early again the next day to keep on setting up, so whatever I can do in terms of letting people know, I will.

Hopefully you will like them. If you ever figure out how to PM, give me a PM.

Lmswjm:

I actually do not know the answer to those questions. I basically bought them after I had heard the DIs and Eric promised me these would sound even better. I do know they have the 15 tweeter/midrange arrangement because that was how I ended up going in that direction.

I was primarily interested in HT and was going to go in the direction of the Paradigm Persona speakers which had been the clearest speakers I had heard. I was going for accuracy and clarity as my primary goals. The last speaker I wanted to hear was the Legacy Audio line of speakers since like Tekton, the had a reputation of having much better sound than their price indicated. Basically a giant slayer. To add to that, they used a high quality ribbons and I own a set of Apogee speakers and a set of Final sound electrostats. I think ribbons and electrostats if done right have some of the best sound going. I found a dealer that carried both Legacy and had a set of DIs on the floor so I went to hear them. I did some critical listening between Erics tweeter array and the ribbon tweeter, fully expecting the ribbons to be better.

After listening to the DIs I was going to buy them but since so much of the HT dialogue comes from the center speaker, I asked Eric if he could make me a center that looked like a smaller Ulf turned on it's side. I was after the 15 speaker tweeter/mid arrangement for my center.

That was when Eric mentioned the Ulf mini which were more wallet and room friendly and would match the custom center better. That's what I ended up getting. It will have more bass drivers, but be smaller drivers. It will have the 15 speaker tweeter/ mid arrangement and beyond that I don't know much. I am just trusting Eric here.

David:

No, I am going with black for the sides. I am going white for the Atmos ceiling speakers. Those 4 will be the only white ones.

Willgolf

I believe the width of the mini-Ulfs is around 10.5 inches. They will be slightly taller than the regular Ulfs. Price is $7500. That is all I know.

Bullitt:
Well, you just ruined my "Bullitt has a crane... how come I can’t have one" argument. I do have a 4 post lift in my garage, so it's only fair that my crane would have two more posts than yours would. :-)

Bullitt:

You have a crane? My wife would not let me buy a crane.

I think I see one of my new speakers on Erics website. I needed a thin pair of side speakers because of where the wall and chairs are. Eric mentioned a 4" thin DI speaker. He now has them on his site. He is calling them the DI in wall speakers. I hope they sound good. They look good!

Evolvist:

I mistyped. Thinner and taller than the DIs. which is exactly what I needed for my space. The width is more of an issue for me. I have some electrostats and they are already tall so that did not bother me but the width dimensions for that wall with the TV in the middle will overwhelm that wall with equipment. These will even be less wide than the electrostats.

Bullitt:

This thread has gotten so long.... rather than trying to find it in here, what are you currently driving the DIs with?

ok, thanks Bullitt. That helps and gives me some perspective. I'm still on path to upgrading my equipment and wanted to see if I thought I needed to make some changes in my plan based on the bright sound and what you might be using.

I appreciate it.

Evolvist, no. I don't. I never got final dimensions.

Any reason you are looking at them vs what they already have out?

That very same statement surprised me also. There are many variables involved such as reflections off of materials and shapes that simple dimensions cannot possibly take into consideration. Just speaking for myself, I would rather measure how the sound arrives at a certain location via mic rather than just note the dimensions and assume that the sound will reach that measured location perfectly.

Again, just speaking for myself, I would have to do some really critical testing before I would believe a distance based correction system is more accurate than a mic based correction system. Not saying it is not the case, but it is something that I personally would have to be convinced of.

David:

It always takes me forever to get stuff done, but yes, I'll make it available for a listen once set up. I want to get to 4K so I can get the benefit of the Atmos sound system. Not sure I can afford it after all of this!

The Lingdorf product that most interests me (but out of my league) is the MP-50. The thing I am trying to understand is that I understood that the shortest path between analog and digital is one of their hallmarks. The MP-50 is strictly a processor (as are most on the market that are not an AV receiver). So since this requires an outboard multi-channel amplifier, doesn’t that make the analog-digital path the same as any other product on the market? I am not getting something basic here I think. The Lingdorf products are excellent but not value like I perceive the DI or Vidar to be. Those are champagne at beer prices whereas the Lingdorf is champagne at champagne prices. Not to say it is not worth it, but not the kind of value I try and look for.

I think there are two different value propositions here based on the Lingdorf unit under discussion. The 2170 has multiple units combined and the price point is $4500.
I am only looking at multi channel capability so although the 2170 would be something I would consider for stereo, it is a non-starter for me.
Their multi-channel offering is 10k and needs external amplification and so that was the basis of my initial question. How much of the Lingdorf "all in one signal path" that pertains to the 2170 really extends to the 50 processor when it needs external amps like the other AV processors?

David:
I'm not concerned about it. You have to do it on all other processors. The only thing is that having to do that negates the Lyngdorf benefit of shortest possible signal path. Therefore, whereas I see the benefit of the 2170 versus other products in the market, the benefits of the MP-50 seem to be more around their type of room correction. There are other in the marketplace that can do what the MP-50 appears capable of other than the proprietary correction system. The others only have 11 channels, whereas the MP-50 has 16. I did not even know that any playback system uses that many channels. Perhaps they are for remote channels. I kind of moved on after the price of 10k. I am very happy with my Anthem at its price point.

The only point I was trying to make (and apparently not very well), was that I see the value and technological advantages of the 2170, but I do not see the value or the technological leadership in the MP-50 to justify the price.

David:
I think the Anthem is a good unit. I used to have an Arcam and it really was very good. It only had a few HDMI ports and they did not make a new processor so I started looking at other units. I like the feature set of the Marantz. It is expensive but it can also do a lot. The 8802 is the one with the better DAC. I almost bought one, but while I like the sound, it has a signature warmness to it. It's not that I don't like it, but I value having the sound being as accurate as possible. I did not perceive that being the case with the Marantz processor. I ended up with the Yamaha. It really is also very feature laden. I thought the sound was more accurate. I ended up with the Yamaha CX-A5000 and believe it or not, it sounded better than the Arcam. Noticeably better. It surprised me.
I just recently decided to move to 4K TV and am now selling the Yamaha and bought the Anthem. I almost bought the newer version of the Yamaha because I was so happy with it and because it has a better feature set than the Anthem. In the end, the better sonic qualities of the Anthem and the better room correction won me over. The higher feature set of the Yamaha would have been nice, but I noticed a slight improvement over the Yamaha with the Anthem so I am glad I bought that. Having to use a PC for room correction is a minor pain, but I am glad I went with the Anthem.

Evolvist

I do not have a deep room and I remember being concerned because Terry had tested his speakers quite a ways out from the wall and he felt that was optimal (at least if I remember correctly).

I did not have that kind of room and asked Eric about that. he told me that it didn't matter and you could put them close to a wall and they would sound fine. And that's what I plan to do, because.... well I have to :-)

Evolvist -- ask Dave to let you hear "my" speaker. He'll know what you mean.

I can also personally vouch for Dave. He is one heck of a good guy. He knew I was trying to make a decision on the DIs and he worked through a thunderstorm to get them set up until the lightning took out most of his area. Then he cam in early to keep working in it over the weekend. They don't come any better than him. 

Bullitt:

Just buy the version with two of the other side and you will be alright.

Very nice Porschracer!

When I heard the Raven amp, I did not hear anything but silence either for whatever it's worth.

Jeffrey, I don't have my Tektons yet, but my plan is to use the NAD M27 which I think is a class D amp ( don't have that either, unfortunately). I will be using a class A/B SS amp in the meantime. After listening to many amps, I honestly believe that you can have enough latitude with any amp design to where you can make it "lean" towards other types of amps. My personal belief is that almost any amp technology can be made to sound great. That great has to line up to each individuals "great" however. I think it is in the engineering and the components for any amp. You can have several amps all with super low distortion figures that all line up in that regard, but they will all sound different. I don't think it is a class D issue as much as the amp you choose, IMO.

Corelli, If I read twoch's post correctly, he was saying that the mod removed his post, not you. 

My decision was always going to be a SS amp, but my decision to go with a clad D amp, did not come easily. Truth be told, I am (was) a class D bigot. And I don't mean a bigot for class D. I didn't want anything to do with it.
As I mentioned, my primary use will be HT. I am working with a person that has professionally worked making commercials, so he knows about the HT sound and how the sound steering should work. Quite interesting actually. He is the one that steered me to the Anthem processor because he said he thought it did the best job of moving the sound around seamlessly between where it was supposed to go. He also recommended the M27 to me. I respect what he told me, but I thought to myself "you can't be serious, with all that is out there."

I started reading as much about class D amps as I could and the M27 specifically. I could not find anything bad on the M27, and some comparisons were to some pretty expensive amps. I also did speak to Dennis at D-Sonic since he is local. His amps put out much more power. Most of the people I spoke to about his amps had good things to say. In the end, with myself finally convinced that I could not only live with but like a good class D amp, my friend promised me that the dynamics of HT would be superb and that the musicality of the M27 was excellent. So that is going to be my amp.

I just googled M27 review and this came up http://www.soundstagexperience.com/index.php/equipment-menu/636-nad-masters-series-m27-seven-channel...
I've actually read better, but this review is pretty typical. Yeah.... it surprises me too...

David: What is the difference that you can hear between the M27 and the class A/B or even class A? Quieter background, more sound spectrum, dynamics or exactly what? Clean sound should be clean sound no matter what it is playing. If the M27 does not sound as well on music as the class A/B or class A, then I can't believe that it would sound as good on HT either. I plan on running music through mine also.

James, you have gone through a few speakers. Would you want to have any of them back over the Did? Also, not many people have heard of the Neat Acoustic Speakers. How did you like them?

Evolvist: Good for you. So we are members of a small group. Mini-Ulf owners without the actual Mini-Ulfs. LOL

Holy Schiit Teajay! That will be a treat.

Evolvist, I wish that that the mini Ulf was out so we could in fact get impressions on the bass, but I trust Eric to make it sound right. I don't know anything about speaker design but I do know that if he uses a driver with a larger incursion he can move just as much air as a 12" driver out of the 8". I've been reading about it more and apparently if the drivers are close together will sound as if coming from one source. I suspect that on the minis the drivers will be on opposite ends of the cabinet. As seen on this very forum, some people will immediately walk away because of the 8" drivers, but I have heard vertical arrays that lack nothing in bass. Eric may have a little bit of an upward grind selling them until he can get a valid reviewer to bless the bass (assuming it really is there), but the physical size has benefits and many people will buy it if it has the goods. As of now, we don't know what drivers he is putting into them. I would like to see 3 high quality bass drivers, but I tend to think now that it might be only 2. Everything is speculation at this point but it will be resolved and Eric really wants to take the $7500 market with this speaker. I think he will make sure it sounds right. He is not stupid. Many $7500 speakers have larger bass drivers (heck, even the DI has 10"). He knows what he is up against when he is designing these. Can't wait to find out what the end result is.

Bullitt:

AWESOME!!! I'd really like to know what it sounds like.

Bullitt: Are there any secret handshakes or raccoon hats involved?

Hell Bullitt... you would pick a password I can't either spell or say...

Dave for me it was both money and size. Since I am getting 12 speakers, the total price was high so I wanted to keep it down, but even more important, the full size Ulfs are just too big for my space. The height doesn't bother me as much as the width and the depth.

So does everyone on this forum own a $4000 headphone? :-)

Evolvist: Well If I could afford them I might buy them. Hell, the only thing I can ever remember being hooked up to my head that cost $4000 was an MRI machine! And it didn't belong to me (the head did, but not the machine)

Evolvist: Eric and I recently had a conversation that started with my electrostats and he mentioned that the sound wave from them was horizontal (flat and hits evenly top to bottom). He mentioned that few things in nature sounded like that and that he wanted his wave to be curved. All that I can think of is that perhaps the top and bottom bass drivers with the other drivers in between them might create a curved sound wave like he wants. This stuff is all beyond my depth so asking Eric would be best.

Terry
I was actually just wondering earlier today if you had gotten your Ulfs yet. So far, it sounds great. I don't have the room (nor the money) for those, but your review is really welcome. I can't wait to hear what you have to say about these.

Evolvist: I got the impression that Eric was talking about how the sound waves normally hits in nature was curved and so that is what he was going for. Electrostats by their nature are flat and Eric felt that they could never truly convey sound as we normally hear it in the world around us.