Mac, My music listening is probably 80 to 85% acoustic jazz with bands/combos of various sizes so we have similar taste. Teajay has these preferences as well so his comments carry considerable weight and I relate to them.
It just seems that based on his listening nearly any good quality built SET is going to really shine with the DI. Lower power tube push pull tubes would also be terrific choices, as it seems the DI takes advantage of quality power and doesn't demand high current/watts in order to sound good.
Having said that I wonder how well Teajay's big Pass Labs mono blocks were with the DI, my guess is they were fine as well. Charles |
Mac, I understand your situation, you have numerous amplifier choices and all are good! I'm curious to hear the MZ2 with the Frankenstein. I've reached a point where I believe all the amplifiers mentioned the past few days in this thread would be truly excellent with your DI speakers, just pick a flavor. Charles |
Corelli, I believe that you, Mac and others will likely settle down for the long term once you all square things up based around the DI. When you achieve the sound/music reproduction you really desire you’ll lose the urge to constantly want to change your system.
That’s why I placed so much emphasis on the all crucial emotional involvement factor-musical connection aspect. Once you obtain that you’ll be very content and happy. Choose components that go straight to your heart and music loving soul. Charles |
Mac, Thanks I appreciate that offer. My speakers are the Coincident Total Eclipse II. These were a simpler design than the Total Victory II and probable easier to drive. Charles |
Hi Teajay,
Well I must confess, no tattoos. However I do have large photographs of Bird, Dizzy, Miles and Monk on the walls of my listening room 😂😂
I understand the analogy you used to describe your 2 different audio systen’s character, I know just what you mean. I can imagine how Morgan’s trumpet and Lester’s tenor must sound with your current system.
Charles |
Jonathan,
Your Art Audio Diavolo 300b SET has earned a reputation for beautiful sound quality and aesthetics as well. I’m glad it has mated so wonderfully with your pair of the Tekton DI.
Given yours and other recent commentary on this thread it does seem as though the DI is an ideal speaker for those interested in trying a SET amplifier in their system as it is apparently very easily driven with low power amplifiers.
Charles |
Bill, (Grannyring),
I agree with your assessment regarding the visual/aesthetic impact of these speakers. My wife and I suspect many women will find them overbearing and physically unattractive. They are not going to be an acceptable addition into most living rooms IMO.
I have a separate listening room in my finished basement but this is not the case for many people. I don’t doubt that these are beautiful sounding speakers, however more attention payed to an elegant and more refined appearance would be well worth the effort. I place higher priority on sound quality than cosmetics, yet I do appreciate attractive visually appealing audio products.
Charles |
Hello Eric,
The Ulfbehrt is larger than the DI and has increased internal volume. Does it have a higher sensitivity than the DI and will it be available as a 4 and 8 ohm version ?
Charles
|
Waler,
Hello, I must say that I am not surprised your amplifier and the DI are such a fine match. Given your typical listening levels what is the power range/watts your amplifier meters are displaying?
Charles |
Walter, Thanks for your reply. I was just curious given the sensitivity of the Double Impacts. I suspect at moderate listening levels you may rarely exceed the 1st watt of power. Charles |
Hello 333jeffrey,
As an all around all things considered amplifier which do you prefer with the DI, The Carver Crimson or the NAT Audio?
Charles |
Corelli,
I've only heard a few 211 tubed amplifiers but I 'don't say that Teajay summed up the basic differeween the 211 and 300b well. It does get a bit tricky because there are clear differences among the same genre of amplifiers. Some 300b amplifiers are noticeably faster, more clear and transparent than others. Of course this hierarchy exists with all individual classes of amplifiers.
333jeffery,
Thanks for your reply, it seems that the Carver will be your long term amplifier. If it's 99 % of the NAT and easier to live with it seems the NAT has no advantages.
Charles |
Corelli,
Although I am a devotee when it comes to SET amplification I still contend that overall quality of design, built and implementation are crucial. I could be very happy with a well executed DHT push pull amplifier. I do not doubt that the Melody AN 300b push pull is as good as teajay says it is.
It'd be fun to directly compare the Melody AN 300b PP and their 211 SET and note how they differ.
Charles |
Hi Walter, Thanks for the update,. I have no doubt that the LM 508ia driving the Double Impacts sound superb. I suspect this is a match that could keep you very happy for many years. Charles |
Hi David,
You have me confused for Mac48025. He's awaiting his new LTA ZOTL M2-S to drive his Double Impacts. Charles |
Hello Mac,
What is intyriguing to me is that you found the Decware amp to be perhaps not quite enough in some circumstances for the Double Impacts. Yet the lower power MZ2 (1 watt) is very sufficient with driving the same speaker. On paper the Decware has much more power but reality/listening tell a different story. Think about it, 1 watt from a 6SN7 which is universally thought of as a preamp signal tube.
Charles |
Teajay,
I’m really enjoying and appreciate your listening impressions, I understand exactly what you’re referring to. As you’ve noted previously the ZOTL MZ 2 is excellent driving the Double Impacts and one could easily live with this match. Yet the SET amplifiers you’ve tried present that "meat on the bone" and improved tonal texture and color that makes the sound more palpable and realistic.
It takes an exceptionally good speaker to exploit this additional musical information and nuance. Example, the DI allows distinction to reveal the Triode Lab 2A3 is the superior SET compared to the Opera amp (no slouch by any means). Better quality transformers, parts and power supplies will do that.
This is why I would advise anyone interested in a SET to go for upgrade options when possible. In particular I’d not choose to save a few dollars by settling for the lesser output transformer, it’s role is too important. Same philosophy regarding the power supply. The more stout/robust the better the amplifier and I believe this point is magnified with SET.
Charles |
Teajay,
I find it interesting that you prefer the 2A3 SET over the LTA Micro ZOTL sibling power amplifiers particularly the 40 watts version that impressed you so thoroughly during your review of it. However as you note, good quality SETs offer some unique and elusive musical attributes. I don’t believe you could go wrong with either a high quality 2A3 or 300b. It takes a superior speaker to allow this level of fine discrimination amongst very nuanced amplifiers.
Charles |
Teajay,
I eagerly await your impressions of the 300b mono blocks headed to you for review. I believe that at a certain level of execution it is not a matter of "best" but different presentations of excellence amongst various types of amplifiers.
I can imagine both the 2A3 and 300b sounding superb driving the DI yet each distinctly different (as one would expect). At this juncture it becomes a question of individual taste and preferences. Teajay, no doubt that you're having a genuine ball listening to all of these exceptional amplifiers.
The Double Impacts certainly seem to offer a legitimate alternative to horn speakers for those desiring to own lower powered SET amplifiers. This is a good development.
Charles |
Mac,
It’s no secret that I am thoroughly pleased with the Coinc1ident Frankenstein MK II amplifier. However the Triode Labs FFX with the Hashimoto output transformers for 3800.00 dollars seems an exceptionally good value. My gut feeling is that this 2A3 SET is top tier in sound quality. Those Hashimoto transformers will definitely be an asset and undoubtedly worth their upgrade cost IMHO.
The Frankenstein uses double C core transformers made in Japan and there's no question that they are a major contributor to the amp's sound quality.
Charles |
Kenny,
I’m not personally familiar with the Hashimoto but it has the reputation for being a very good output transformer . Israel Blume the owner/builder of Coincident feels quite strongly regarding the merits of double C core transformers. I suspect either is an excellent option in the hands of a talented amplifier builder.
As you acknowledge other factors concerning the amplifier design and implementation are important as well.
In regard to your comments about C core output transformers the attributes you ascribe to them I can attest to with my amplifier. #1 being "lost in the music type of sound ", yes indeed.
Charles |
Hi Dracule1,
Thanks for the clarification of the Hashimoto output transformers. I was not aware of their construction but am well aware of their reputation. As I wrote above , Japanese double C core transformers are doing something very positive in my amplifier,.
Charles |
Kenny,
I haven't had an opportunity to hear the Coincident Dynamo amplifier.
Charles |
Hi Teajay,
I appreciate your comments regarding the design and concept of the Double Impacts. It didn’t go unnoticed when earlier in this thread you wrote that you prefer them to the Wilson Sasha and your own Lawrence Audio Cello speakers. This admission really does speak volumes.
This has me very curious about the Double Impact SE , same design but utilizing the excellent Scanspeak drivers and upgraded crossover parts. The DI is a very interesting new product that seems to genuinely compete with speakers in the 20- 30K dollar price range. This is no small feat by any measure.
The icing on the cake is its ability to be successfully driven by a few high quality watts of power. This isn’t an easy task, this represents exceptionally good engineering and execution. Teajay you have own/heard/reviewed many highly regarded High End audio products. You deriving so much satisfaction and listening pleasure with these speakers and a low watt 2A3 (high quality) amplifier is quite significant given your background and deep exposure to many High End brands. This is a entirely different domain from your big Pass Labs amplifier based system. It appears that this current system has taken you to a higher level based on your comments. Fascinating.
Charles |
Kenny,
Double Impacts replacing the Zu DEF IV is interesting as that speaker has many happy owners on this site. There's quite a long ongoing audiogon thread regarding that speaker.
Charles |
Hi Walter,
Do you have any further listening impressions regarding the Double Impacts and the Line Magnetic 508ia? This combo is very intriguing.
Charles |
Hi Walter,
Thank you for such a well written and insightful listening comparison of what I believe are two excellent speakers. The Daedalus Ulysses is a known standard of high achievement and deservingof the high regard it's held in.
This is why I was very interested in what you heard in your system with the terrific Line Magnetic 508ia amplifier. I've followed your posts over the years and value your taste and listening impressions. I'm not surprised that this is a very close and competitive battle and that each speaker has certain advantages.
Based on your comments the Double Impacts are extraordinarily dynamic yet at the same time nuanced and possessing finesse. This is certainly an example of where one of these speakers could be preferred over the other based purely on specific taste.
No doubt in my mind that both sound superb with that 805 tubed SET amplifier of yours 😊
Charles |
Corelli,
Chris (Waltersalas),
Has owned very good components including fine SS amplifiers. He is an experienced listener with good ears. I’d find it rare for a SS amplifier to match the pure naturalness and emotional involvement of his LM 508ia. Of course this is just my humble opinion. Chris is obviously quite capable of speaking for himself. 😊
Charles |
David, After many years of predominantly analog records I've been exclusively Redbook CD front end for the past 8 years and very happy I might add.
Charles |
Hi Chris,
When you speak of "breath of life " that is an excellent summation of my experience/journey as well. I once owned a Symphonic Line amplifier which is a highly regarded German transistor power amplifier. I enjoyed my time with it yet in the back of my head I always felt/sensed that there was something missing to a relatively small degree.
Subsequent tube amplifiers got me closer to what I was seeking. When I got my 300b SET the search was over, all missing links and desires were filled. Pure flesh and blood presence and most important, deep emotional involvement/connection. It will undoubtedly vary for each one of of us, but when it’s right you’ll know it.
Chris, I can thoroughly relate to what you wrote (in your typical well written fashion).
Charles |
Chris,
Interesting your comments about the VAC Renaissance 70/70. I first heard that amplifier many years ago and was instantly smitten, it made instruments and human voices sound real and alive. In those days I was early in my career and had a wife and young children (buying a house etc.). I resisted the temptation to spend that much money on this very impressive but expensive new amplifier. To this day I still regard it as an all time classic natural sounding amplifier.
Charles |
Hello David,
Here’s my background. I grew up in a very music oriented family, I played trumpet beginning at age 10, my mother, both grandmothers and a brother played the piano and another brother played the trombone. There was much live music in our home. My father loved music and the record player seemed to always be playing Duke Ellington recordings.
Live instruments were my reference by default. I grew up in the vinyl records era and stuck with this medium for decades as early digital just didn’t move me. Eventually I discovered digital components that sounded natural and believable. The genre of jazz has always been well recorded for the most part (IMO) on Redbook CD. I just had to aquire the right digital gear.
I don’t miss my previous analog system although it was very satisfying, I’m very content with what I currently have as its natural and engaging which meets my objective.
Charles
|
Hi Vitop,
I agree with you in that preferences can cover one end of the spectrum to the other. I hardly consider myself the arbiter of establishing any sort of sound quality standard. I just know what "I" like. It seems that Chris, Mac and I have very similar taste in regards to the qualities of well executed tube amplification (SET in particular).
Bill (Grannyring) is every bit as happy with his digital signal amplifier. At some point along the way hopefully we all fine the sound we want in our respective systems. With so many choices available there’s truly something for all listeners to eventually fulfill their sonic quest.
Chris writing "breath of life " in reference to tube power amplifiers struck a chord with me. I recognize that my audio journey and conclusions may certainly differ from those of yours.
Charles |
Hi Chris,
It seems that once again our ears hear similarly. I use the EML XLS as an output tube in my amplifier. You’re using this tube as a driver tube in your amplifier and we have the same listening impressions of it.
I’m beginning to believe that driver tube selection is as important/influential as the output power tube. You should extract many years of service from this superb tube.
Charles |
Hello jcarcopo,
Let me know if the new production Elrogs 300b prove to be reliable , obviously this will take time to determine. Ìt is a fabulous sounding tube in my amplifier but unfortunately unreliable. This reportedly has been resolved with the current batch per new ownership.
Charles |
Twoch,
Regarding your comment about the Wilson Sophia 1 and the Tekton DI, is it based on listening comparisons or an assumption based on the cost of these two speakers ?
Charles |
Hello Kenny,
Congratulations on acquiring the MZ2.
I look forward to your listening impressions of the MZ2 as an amplifier and as a line stage mated to both the push pull and SET amplifiers.
Charles |
Teajay,
As someone who has had the good fortune to hear many varieties of power amplifiers over the years I must compliment you on your comments above. In all candor we probably hear in a very similar manner just as we have quite similar taste in music.
Your description of the sound of the amplifiers you've listened to driving the Double Impacts is exceptionally insightful. It really does seem to me that given the design and easy drive nature of these speakers that high quality SET would be an ideal match. For example my knowledge of the Canary amplifier would suggest the superb results that your listening impressions confirm.
I appreciate your very respectful tone toward Jeffrey and his preferred amplifiers. There's absolutely no doubt that we as individuals hear things differently and must choose what we find most suitable for ourselves. Thankfully the Double Impacts allow this flexibility of choice.
Triode Labs 2A3 and Canary 300b SET amplifiers no doubt sound as fantastic as you describe. This continues to be a very informative and very friendly thread.
Charles |
Hi Mac,
You're probably aware of this point but I'll state it anyway 😊.
If you go with the Triode Labs amplifier get the best output transformer option that you can comfortably afford. They offer very nice choices for this critical part.
Charles |
Hello facten,
No I haven’t. I know several people whose hearing and listening impressions are simply rock solid and they’ve told me that the Canary 300b amplifer offerings are something special. Right in line with what Terry wrote earlier, "music makers" as opposed to "hifi". I understand his point.
Charles |
Baranyl,
Thanks for your additional listening impressions. If the Canary 300b SET is anything like my Coincident amplifier the choice of 300b tube has a substantial effect on the sound quality and character. What tube was teajay using?
He used a very well regarded NOS RCA with the 2A3 amplifier. Based on your sonic descriptions I’d choose the Triode Labs 2A3 SET as well. I’ll always prefer the component that gets to the core of music and increases the emotional involvement/communication aspect of listening.
This emotional connection factor (and tonality/timbre) could vary noticeably depending on the quality of 300b tube used in my amplifier. The one drawback admittedly is the better 300bs are expensive relative to most other output tubes.
Teajay said that the Double Impacts are a conduit and that seems to be quite an accurate assessment. The variety of amplifiers mentioned in this thread is diverse. Personally I’d love to hear the Triode Labs 2A3 SET in direct comparison to the Line Magnetic 508ia used by Chris (Waltersalas). Now that would be very interesting, pure SET DHT tubes in both low power and moderate power presentation.
The Double Impacts open the door to some compelling scenarios.
Charles |
Teajay,
Thanks. I’ve used both of those tubes in my amplifier and thought the Sophia Royal Princess was very good sounding. I like the EML XLS and Takatsuki even more with direct comparison. I’m pretty certain that the particular amplifier in use has some influence regarding tube preference.
Charles |
The dialogue exchange on this thread continues to be educational and certainly interesting. Teajay said that the Tekton Double Impacts are a true conduit and I believe the same would be true regarding the Ulfberths.
This leads me to believe that the "forward " presentation of the Ulfberths is simply a reflection of what source and amplifier driving them. Change the power amplifier and the presentation changes accordingly.
A genuine conduit will starkly reveal the the nature and quality of the recording and audio components in the signal chain or pathway. My gut feeling is that the Double Impact SE (with the excellent Scanspeak drivers and upgraded crossover parts) driven by SETs mentioned throughout this thread would be musically sublime.
Charles |
I’d seriously consider a used First Watt amplifier as a viable alternative if you’re adamant about only seeking a transistor amplifier. Nelson Pass design pure class A and ultra simple circuit. It has enough power for the Double Impacts.
I think that in terms of musicality and natural high quality sound presentation it may be superior to the other candidates mentioned, just my humble opinion.
Good luck ,,
Charles |
Stfoth,
I didn’t bother with any tube power amplifier suggestions as it seems clear that there’s only an interest in transistors. The "cold and clinical " character you mentioned (Emotiva) is why I recommended the First Watt amplifiers. Probably as natural and lively as you’ll find for solid state, particularly for the stated price range. Howeve It’s hard to know what another person may like.
Charles |
Teajay,
Your suggested SS amplifiers are good recommendations but keep in mind the stated budget. He’ll never find those caliber of amplifiers used anywhere near 1500.00 dollars, thus my suggestions above. First Watt will get him serious quality 2 channel music reproduction if he can find a used one. The First Watt S.I.T.won't be found in this price range either used.
Charles |
Hello Bullitt,
There’s a used First Watt F3 for sale on this site. However it’s a very simple single ended design(RCA) rather than the balanced you desire. |
I can see where the username of Tekton could raise some suspicion. However the last thing this thread needs is a shill at this juncture given the multitude of positive responses from very happy owners. What could a shill add at this stage of this thread? Seems like tardy timing IMO.
There are enough credible audiogon members participating here and I feel very comfortable with the many High endorsements written here. I believe it’s all legitimate and sincere.
Charles |
Soundermm,
Your frustration is understandable and has merit. I believe that the various Tektons sound as good as their owners say they do. However the website needs to be organized and provide specific and thorough description and pertinent specifications of each model.
In its current form there’s little information that gives potential buyers any idea of what significantly distinguishes one model from another particularly with the overlapping cost of a number of models.
I believe that hiring a professional to design and construct a a high caliber website worthy of the product quality is a wise direction to take. The site should reflect the quality of the speakers.
Charles |
Hi Jonathan,
We may be brothers from another mother as the saying goes 😊
I can definitely relate to your comments and amplifier progression/experience.
Charles |
