Tekton Double Impacts

First I REALLY enjoyed evolvists visit last night. A really great person and we had fun exposing the failings of my system. LOL
But despite that, the DIs held up their end of things for him. They helped polish the turd, so to speak.
The newly formed NW Houston audio society (evolvist and me) have some big plans!

Vitop, I'm almost embarrassed to admit...

Digital: HTPC serving FLAC through JRiver to a Schitt Modi 2 Multibit.
Analog: Thorens TD165, AT440, Schitt Mani pre.
Amp is a Denon 4520 Receiver.
Sub is a DIY Dual Opposed 15" powered by two Crown amps.
We plugged in Evolovist's power amp. It made a huge improvement even using the $250 DAC and the Preamp section of my Denon to feed it.
Last night it was clear my front end was not feeding the DIs to anywhere near what they are capable of. I have an Odyssey Pre-Power on order. I need that yesterday. Although I love the Modi 2 I have the wheels turning to return it and go with the Bifrost Multibit or some sub-$1000 dac. Trying not to go off the deep end after last night! 

There is a picture of "in wall double impacts" on the main page of the site this morning. Looks like a baffle speaker.

External baffle dimensions: 26" tall x width 15.75" x 0.75" deep  

In-wall internal dimensions: 23.125" tall x 13" wide x 3.375" deep

Evolvist and I are planning to audition my DIs and likely my DI SEs at his place sometime in the near future. (Hopefully that won't cost me $100K in upgrades.) I'm very interested in the alternative measurement based room correction also. Honestly, I've never been happy with Audyssey for full corrections in my HT environment. For Bass correction REW helps. But just manually inputting the speaker distances, setting levels by ear and adding Bass correction seems to work the best for me. Even with the Bass I always end up tweaking it manually.

Danoroo, not looking good for another visit this week. Life is getting in the way of fun, but I'll re-evaluate this weekend. Returned your PM. Sorry for the delay on that.
My immediate advice is... buy them. Odds are very good you won't send them back. I'm even predicting evolvist isn't going to let me send the DIs I have now back to Eric. Jonesing LOL.
My new/new DAC isn't here yet. I'm going to the next level on the Schitt I DAC I just got. Seems like I'm the upgrade king right now. Looks like delivery on Wednesday. THEN break-in, again.
I sent Eric an email on Thursday asking for an update on the SEs. I was told 6 weeks and that was last week. Hoping to find out something today and intend to call toward the end of the day when Eric seems most available for phone conversations if he doesn't answer the email.
I'm also going to rattle Klaus' cage on my Kismet amp status today. It isn't due yet, but maybe one of these manufactures will ship something ahead of schedule? Yes, I'm delusional. Sorry... It is nice Schitt seems to ship things the same day even with upgrade options. That's almost shocking.

You need the wheels option on that AHB2. It really gets around. ;-)

Nice Schitt! Sorry, couldn't help it. I just added the Mani and a Bifrost Multibit to my front end. As with the tektons, the Schitt products perform well above their price range. I need my SEs and my Odyssey stuff to get here! ARRG.

So I bring home Led Zep 4 Vinyl today and discover it has two side twos and no side ones. And it isn't just the label. That's a first for me. Maybe that's what they mean by "remastered".

The second meeting of the NW Houston Audio society was a smashing success. Evolvist, thanks for coming over for you dose of Tekton while making up your mind. Your input on the system sound has been very helpful in my efforts to improve it. I'm also glad you enjoyed your Vinyl exposure even-though my cartridge and phono pre cost less than most analog folks pay for a stylus replacement. And we certainly listened to a wide range of music. Elvis to Bleachers? :-)

Congrats evolvist. Glad you went for it. The next meeting of the NW Houston Audio Society will be at your house.

I know that feeling vitop... except DI SEs. Gotta go for the new stuff, don’t we? Eric shipped my current DIs upgrades in one day.

Evolvist, if you want to come over and play with sub integration with my DIs, let me know. I actually think you’ll like it. I take the sub in and out depending on the what genre I’m playing. And I always have it on to handle the LFE during movies. Just a thought.
And when yours arrive we can certainly put them in the same room with mine for low end analysis and everything else analysis for that matter.

Looks like my DI center channel will be out for delivery today. Sort of a boring update with the current conversation between you high-end thread members. But my system will be used a lot for HT. I'm really interested in it's performance. In HT mode, it will be the most important transducer in the room. And extremely important the wife likes it!!

Vitop, of course there are. We're in Texas!

The secret password is Ulfberht. No-one will ever guess that one. Well, maybe a dead Viking.

@vitop you could join the NW Houston Audio Society and come by and hear it if you want to. Or I could bring it to you if you want to hear it on your system. Just a thought...

LOL Just write it down. That's what everyone does with passwords.

Got the center channel in today. On Eric’s recommendation I got the three tweeter instead of the 7. It looks small vs my B&W HTM1 it’s replacing. Definitely looks small vs the DIs! But it’s the same driver set that’s producing all the mids and highs in the DIs, so hopefully it will get the job done. I haven’t listened to it yet since it was delivered while the Texan’s game was on. Listening/break-in tomorrow.
I’ve actually been thinking a single Enzo 2.7 would make an excellent floor standing center. I wonder if Eric would sell just one of them if this doesn’t work well.

Actually I think you're wrong on both counts there!

Are they similarly voiced with the DIs? I always test with white noise. If the sound of the noise is close, the voicing is close.

I should have know Eric has it right. The center basically sounds like the top half of the DIs, which is basically what they are. They aren't quite there yet, because they only have an hour on them, but they are going to work just fine with the current DIs.

Not me! Hell, I don't even own a $4000 amp... yet.

Actually it's the opposite of a blind date. She lives with you in your house for 60 days. You don't like her, send her back home. No strings attached.

@mdolfnwhr Welcome to the DI with Receiver crowd. That crowd being you and me as far as I know. I have a Denon 4520 pushing mine and it sounds pretty good, as far as I'm concerned. The lower priced front end and DI phenomenon is fortunately going to happen more as the price of the DIs allow individual without lottery levels of income to buy them.  I can assure you that at only 30 minutes now, the sound of the DIs is going to improve significantly. Mine certainly did. Enjoy!

Terry, thanks for the pre-review, review. Lots of us are jealous out here. Would you tell us the overall size of your room and what you would think would be the minimal size for the Ulfs to work well. I've actually had this conversation with Eric and he doesn't think my 12 high, 14 wide, 20 deep dedicated media room would be a problem. We even discussed the necessity of having them a foot from the side/rear walls with bass traps behind them. This is necessary to keep them from being in the way of the HT screen. I'm sure there are better positions, but again, he doesn't think my set-up would be problematic. 

however if someone knows what there doing I’m sure you could get the speaker to work well in a somewhat smaller environment.

Hopefully you’re correct Terry. The current DIs are positioned in the corners and seem to have no ill effects from that. Which surprised me. I even put up panel at the wall reflection point and all that did is narrow the sound stage, so I removed them. Eric told me there would be no problem with the DIs in the corner too and was correct. I’m currently adding no room correction at all. I’m not sure evolvist believed that when he was here because he asked me about three times if I was sure. At any rate, we’ll know in the near future.

I'll (hopefully) soon have my Odyssey tube pre and SS power amp. I'm sure evolvist and maybe Vitop could review the tube to SS sound for everyone. I admittedly have not been exposed to the high quality level and quantity of amps/speakers etc that they have. I just know what sounds good to me. We did use Nick's power amp for a while when he was here. And it sounded really good. Certainly an upgrade over the Denon. But we were still using my Denon as the Pre feeding it, so I'm sure that hampered the results. I'm looking forward to a high quality pre-power on the front end.

Oh, I’m totally on-board with that opinion Vitop. There currently isn’t a tube in my system. The Odyssey Candela Pre I’m getting only has two tubes. Klaus SWEARS I’ll love it and if I don’t, he’ll take it back. The Kismet power amp I’m getting from Klaus isn’t tube. Fully SS. This is exactly why I would seek your and Nick’s opinion on it. You both are open minded, but SS leaning. Exactly as I am. But more experienced in the hobby. But I’m still going to decide what it is I like as the final answer. It’s what we do in this hobby. Right?
And my set-up will have a HT pass-through. I use my system as much or more for HT than I do for Music. Hopefully that will work correctly or I’m in trouble with the boss.

And cool to hear you’re also a car guy. That is my expensive hobby. I have a mustang running 8.6 at 160 in the 1/4. The black hole in the garage into which I pour money. I could have built a stand-alone 100 seat home theater for what I’ve spent on that car since I purchased it in 2001.

@bullitt5094  Are you therefore, watching movies outdoors in your Mustang....?    : )

Of course! Haven't you seen the movie "Bullitt"? It's all related. My car is a 2001 Bullitt edition mustang rendered after the car Steve McQueen drove in the movie. It's like living the movie.
And as far as mileage? Might as well have 100 people in it. A gallon of race fuel per 1/4 mile pass. Eric is a car freak too, BTW.

Vitop, those are two awesome stangs. Worth LOTS of money now. My two are my 2001 Bullitt GT and a 2003 Mach. Both 4.6 liter = 281CID so your 289 was larger than either of mine. The 289 was an awesome engine. Square bore-stroke and turn it to 10K rpm if it's built right.

So you have Ferrari red speakers being delivered without your wife's knowledge? Let us know who gets the speakers in the divorce settlement. :-)

I had the 8 vs 4 ohm discussion with Eric very early on. Eric does not like to build 8 ohm speakers. He thinks it's old technology and it subverts all his efforts to make the speakers as efficient as possible, if I remember the conversation correctly. He turned me away from that idea very quickly.

And my DIs match my car too. Ford Black.

"When I spoke to Eric he said maybe a foot from the front and side walls, and said that he wouldn't make a claim that any more distance would do much good. "
That re-enforces what Eric told me. Since I have the Ulfs on order, I'm hoping Eric is correct about his product placement. The DIs certainly seem to work well where I have them. Which is close to the wall and about a foot from a bass trapped corner. Especially the sound stage. When evolvist was here, the staging was strong enough where he actually got out of the chair and put his ear to my center channel to be sure it wasn't on. I assured him I wasn't cheating!

+1 Buds. I don’t feel the similar placement of mine are causing any problems. I trust Eric to know his own product’s capabilities.
And as to the earlier inference that as a vendor Eric may suggest things just to sell more products... two things. First, he has more business than he can handle currently. And second, Eric is not built that way. He enjoys what he’s doing and isn’t in this just for profit. Not by a long shot.

evolvist, vitop, is the NW Houston Audio Society keeping it's head above water. Just want to be sure you guys are OK.

Vitop, we are OK. Living a new community has it's advantages in drainage design. Plus the HT is on the second floor if things really get bad. The Tektons will be safe! LOL.
I exchanged emails with Evolvist and he is fine too. Glad you're OK.

Just FYI... LTA is releasing upgraded Linerar power supplies for it's power amps similar to the upgrade available for the preamp. I know several of you are looking for tube amp solutions with the Tektons, so I thought I'd put that out there.

Here is how my Amp shootout has gone over the last few weeks with the Tektons. I brought in an Odyssey Candela Pre and Kismet power with all upgrades available. I brought in the newest LTA offerings. The MZ2 and the ZOTL 10 Mark2 also fully loaded, and the Lyngdorf 2170 on the recommendation of Kenny (kdude66) and due to Bill (grannyring) comments on it. Everything was dutifully broken-in.
First, the Odyssey was a total mistake. Both on a customer service and performance basis. I don't want to sling too much mud, but for me, it was a really bad choice to even call them. If you would like the gory details, PM me please.
Next, dealing with Mark at LTA was just the opposite. Customer service was over the top. The units were well made and just cool looking. I really don't like the "light bulb farm" look of most tube amps, nor the sound coloration. The LTA had neither of those characteristics. Plus Teejay seems to love them too, so I chose them to represent the Tubular faction. In testing I can't understand how anyone could listen to just the one watt of the MZ2 in a reasonable size room unless you listening to camber music or something like acoustic guitar or piano. The dynamics on anything else just isn't there for me. But, that's just me. Now with the ZOTL 10 inline, it is a totally different story. Even with just 10-12 watts the difference was dramatic. Very clean, detailed and dynamic with the Tektons. I wholeheartedly recommend anyone "amp fishing" to give LTA a listen. Unlike Odyssey, Mark made his product trials very painless. Just do it. 
But alas, the winner was the Lyngdorf. It was just a step better than the LTA. Wendy and I went through extensive blind testing. This included the LTA vs the Lyngdorf with both a roomperfect corrected output as well as an uncorrected mode against the LTA. It also included both Digital input and Vinyl. Consistantly over many types of music the LTA was always third, the room corrected 2170  was generally second and the uncorrected 2170 was most often first. I would have bet the LTA would have come out on top with the analog/vinyl input, but even with the Lyngdorf doing an A/D conversion, and the LTA path being all analog, the Lyngdorf sounded better by a similar margin as with the Digital input.
I was surprised by the Lyngdorf. I never gave much credence to Class D, but in my room, in my chair, both my wife and I preferred the Lyngdorf. And I honestly was rooting for the LTA since it is much cooler looking than the 2170, which is closer to the excitement level of a clock radio. Calling Mark to let him know the LTA stuff was coming back was really tough too. Again, if I hadn't heard the 2170, I would have been totally please with the LTA performance. But side by side, the Lyngdorf is noticeably better sounding. The DIs really do reflect what's in front of them. They seem to love the 2170.
This is my opinion, take if for what it's worth. It and $5 will get you half a cup of bad coffee at Starbucks. I don't carry a lot of clout in this forum, don't claim to be an expert, haven't owned every piece of equipment ever made. I hesitated for a long time posting anything because this thread is getting very testy at times. But I thought I could open some minds to other possibilities. And Kenny and Bill are also huge fans of the product. Those two carry a bit of clout in my book, and I appreciate them opening my mind to other possibilities. Very much so.

@grannyring awesome information. Thanks for sharing!!

On the Lyngdorf questions...
In my room, the 2170 sounds better corrected than uncorrected. But not by a lot. It may be that my room is pretty good anyway. This admission was hard for Wendy because she’s never liked any previous room/speaker correction. But in blind testing, she mostly chose the corrected but did go with uncorrected a couple of times. But never chose the LTA. And a couple of notes on the LTA comparison. At higher volume and higher dynamic music, the LTA fell way behind the 2170. Perhaps it was pushing the limits of its 12 watts. At one point with one of her favorite songs at higher volume Wendy said "I don’t know what that one is, but it has to go back". On low volume the 2170 was also much better. I was very surprised. Thought that would be where the LTA would shine. But the 2170 kept all it’s detail on the high end and even more so, the dynamics and tight bass on the low end. This effect was amplified in the room correction mode but was also true when uncorrected. Only with less dynamic music, and in the middle volume range, without the 2170 correction, did the LTA come close. Even then, it was never chosen.
I did not know about the ZOTL 15. The 40 was out of my price range. I went with Mark’s recommendation on the amp configuration and was assured it would not be lacking for what I was intending with the DIs. I’ll also add I spoke to Kenny a couple of times, who owns a 40 and the 2170 and he told me the higher wattage wouldn’t help.
On the listening impression question... I could line up a number of often used adjectives here, but really it came down to the 2170 just acted like a wire with gain. I could hear details I couldn’t hear with the others. Everything sounded very natural. I know, not normally a class D trait! It didn’t sound "digital" at all. I can, and have, listened to it for hours and it wasn’t fatiguing. And it sounded detailed and dynamic at even low levels. That just blew me away. And this was consistent with both Digital and Analog inputs.
Now, when I first got it with no hours on it, it was awful. I was questioning Kenny’s take on it for a bit there. But after a couple of days of burn-in, it came into it’s own. If you hear it in a store, you’re cheating yourself.
Complaints? It looks like a clock radio and the LTA stuff would be a conversation piece in comparison. You have to turn the volume knob A LOT to effect change. I’ve learned to just spin it now or use the remote. There is no rack-mount provision. You have to go through dealers. It’s made in Denmark. That’s really all I can come up with.
Finally, I was not expecting this result. The only reason I tried it was due to Kenny’s and Bill’s feedback on it. But I’m certainly glad I did. For me, in my room, and my listening habits, it just works. I certainly don’t think that will be true for everyone.

Corelli, the transducer centers are a 1.5ft from the side walls and 2.5ft from the rear wall. I didn't move them durning testing because I'm not going to move them when I listen. So that would be pointless. They are positioned in front of corner Bass traps that extend from just off the floor, almost to the ceiling. The rear wall is also treated with flat panels below the HT screen and stop about 4ft off the floor with the screen above that level. I also have bass traps in the rear room corners and additional absorption panels at most reflection points on the side walls. I actually had more absorption panels at one point, but with experimentation discovered imaging and depth was better with some of them removed. Evolvist heard the DIs in my room, but later posted he hadn’t hear the DIs in a treated room. All I can assume is he wasn’t impressed with my sound absorption efforts and didn’t feel it was a good sample. Hey, I do what I can. It sounds pretty good to me and looks good on a graph. Imaging is great with the correction on or off and not a real noticeable difference in the low end. Mostly it seems to improve the image depth placement and adds a bit of detail in the mids and highs. The big thing is, it made a huge difference when I tested it with my B&W 804s. It was like night/day on them and brought them much closer to the sound of the DIs. It was pretty impressive. I guess it makes sense that the better the speaker, the less correction it needs. And the worse the speaker, the more of a change you’ll notice.

@david_ten I am actually running it in the room correction/focus mode all of the time. It sounds better corrected. In addition, you can have two speaker correction files stored. I have one file for the DIs alone, and another for the DIs with my subwoofer on line. But all testing was done without the subwoofer. The 2170 really does a good job incorporating the sub with the mains using it’s correction. Something that was going to be difficult to do with the LTA or even the Odyssey without throwing something else with a crossover function into the signal path.
And as far as groups embracing different technologies... I really didn't care. I just picked the one that sounded the best to my wife and me. If wanted to pick "cool" I'd have gone with the LTA. If I wanted to pick "big and impressive" I would have picked the Odyssey stuff. But I picked the totally unimpressive class D clock radio instead. But again, that's just me. I am not in any way saying there is anything wrong with the other technologies. If you like it and enjoy it, and don't think what I chose is the best, that is absolutely all right. Keep an open mind and follow your ears.  

evolvist, of course you're welcome to come by. I got the impression you had auditioned the Lyngdorf and didn't like it. But if you want to hear it with the DIs, that's great. I also have absorption panels we can play with in the room if you want to do that. I don't think we could do the ceiling would need some velcro up there :-)  is going to happen, but floor/walls would be no problem.

My room is a HT with bass traps and some absorption on the front wall. I put additional panels in the room in "traditional" locations. First reflections, etc. But it worked better without them. As stated earlier, my DIs are near the corners in front of bass traps. All this done prior to testing the Lyngdorf. The room is rectangular with a sloping, peaked ceiling and a ceiling drop at the rear where the projector is mounted.

Lyngdorf actually recommends you place your speakers in corners and the sub centered against the front wall and then use RoomPerfect to make it work. Perfect for me with my HT setup.

My main source is my PC Music server feeding USB to the 2170 optional USB module. The signal path is deathly quiet. The LTA was almost as quiet. The Odyssey was noisy as hell in comparison to either of those. I was told that was normal for their products. Even my Denon HT Receiver made less noise than the Odyssey stuff.

@lpretiring I don't feel there is too much low end with no correction. But I  was not using correction even before the Lyngdorf in stereo mode. So that wouldn't be a change. The Lyngdorf isn't noticeably changing the level low end when correcting either. My assumption is that it seems to "think" it's pretty close. But we all have our preferred room curve. Corrected or uncorrected the low end is much tighter and well defined now. It seems to control the subs better.
evolvist, thanks for the kind words. I'm pretty sure you'll see a definite improvement when you hear the Lyngdorf vs the old front end. 

@david_ten Certainly I would welcome a visit. It would be best to communicate by Email. Could you PM me an email address?

@audioarchon

If this is right, essentially, the speakers would be corner loaded.  In such a setup I believe that you preferred a class D amp over a tube amp.

I do realize tube amps are less forgiving and much more particular in their set-up requirements. That said, members with better environments have sold-off all of their tube equipment after purchasing a class D amp. I can also assure you, the difference in the sound was significant enough where I sincerely believe, even with a perfect room, and all the stars aligned for the tube amp, I would have still chosen the class D. It sounded better with no correction. And if your point is that the class D controls the transducers better than a tube amp, which allows it more flexibility, then my point is made.  

Just got a call from Tekton. My Ulfs are about to ship! Which is great since they'll be here and somewhat broken in when the family is here over Thanksgiving. Very good news today.

Kenny said it looks like the Elves are bringing the Ulfs. :-)

The speaker’s ability to hold it all together when played very loudly is stunning. Just a fun and engaging speaker all at the same time.

They are also fully engaging at very low volume. My current rig does explosive dynamics and engaging, low level listening with equal proficiency.  

@grannyring Bill, I've experienced the same thing. Especially how the 2170 retains all of it's detail and dynamics at low volume. It's almost eerie. Or any volume for that matter. I'm sure your speaker mods contribute to that, but I'm experiencing the same thing with my unmodded DIs. I'll also add this was not a characteristic I experienced with either the LTA or Odyssey products. The tube experience for me was...  it sounded it's best  in the middle of it's output capabilities. It wouldn't support the dynamics at lower volume. And at anything close to it's output limits it would display distortion. And with 10 watts you get close to that max output pretty quickly. But I do understand many people like the sound of the tube distortion/"warmness". I'm just in that camp.

@nitrobob  I use two 6466 Precison Turbo "mufflers" on my Mustang. Highly recommended. Nice to see another NHRA License holder on the thread.

The Ulfs are in the house! Well... they are in the garage at any rate. Now I need to get two, 200# 83" tall boxes though a 6.5ft door, across the house, up a 20ft high circular stairway, up a couple more steps in the upstairs gameroom entrance, through the 6.5ft theater door, around the HT seats, and down two more steps in the Theater. Then unbox them. All without damaging them, the house, or most importantly, any humans. It would be nice to know which side of the box is the front where the transducers are so we don't lean it on that side. That isn't marked and the box is square. So I can't even tell which are the sides. But they are boxed similarly to the DIs. Those were very well protected so I'm not too concerned. And Eric/Karma also sent some specific unboxing instructions similar to what comes with the DIs. Help is on the way tonight.