Talon Loudspeakers

hi carl, the accuton drivers *are* the drivers used by kharma, even their top-model, which runs ~$80k/pair (?!?) they're also known as thiel & partner - no relation to thiel in kentucky - these are german. perhaps ewe should check their specs, awailable at orcadesign: http://www.orcadesign.com/accuton/accuton.htm my understanding is that they are lighter, fast w/plenty of motor strength. also, they are ceramic - glass - not metal. their operation is virtually pistonic in nature... regards, doug ps - i guess i could have yust anwsered: carl, you're an idiot!, & left it at that - now *that* would have been productive, eh? ;~)

Audiogon: surely Phill isn't still here, is he?

I haven't seen the specs on the particular ceramic midrange that is in the Kharmas (it's not Accuton, it's supposedly much better), but I can tell you that the Accuton ceramic drivers are not any faster than the Esotar mid. In fact, their moving mass is higher, and their motor strength much lower; also their surface area is larger. This translates to "slower and less dynamic", not "faster and more dynamic". Also, any metal diaphragm has break up modes that no crossover gets rid of (all tests bear this out, there's no getting around physics), where a soft dome mid has no HF resonant modes whatsoever, only one suspension (instead of two), and a smaller surface area (I'm only talking in the range above 700 Hz for these domes...OF COURSE you have to use a "cone" type driver if you are going down below 300 Hz, and these ceramics ARE like a cone despite their inverted dome shape, because they use both a front and rear suspension).

jeez, (sy)phill(ys) - i guess yer rite - too bad i'm stupid. too bad that's all ewe care about re: audio. doug

I only play mine loud during the day, At night while we're as sleep they play low.In the manual(which I'm sure you've read a million times) it says not to use any breaking in tweaks with the acception of loud,harmonic rich music.

Acuujim and Philfreak: Are you guys playing them loud? According to the designer, the surrounds of the Scanspeak midrange are an accordian type. He has been using this driver for 8 years, and knew that break-in was a very long time before they sounded good. On the other hand, they'll last forever. I have been playing them for 24 hours for a couple of weeks now at low volume to wear-in the crossover electronics, but haven't figured out how I'm going to break-in the drivers at higher volumes without driving everyone crazy. I once read a Stereophile article that suggested facing the speakers towards each other so that the drivers fired into each other. This supposedly causes them to break in faster. Right now, they sound constricted, murky, and have a midrange glare at high volumes. When I talked to the designer, he told ME what I was hearing, so I know he knows what he's talking about. On the other hand, this speaker is very fast, detailed, and images like crazy. My buddy just bought a pair also. He auditioned them at Jeff Rowland's place. He described them as "stunning", and sold his ESP Concert Grands for them. Rowland told him that the crossover in this speaker was the best he had ever seen. My buddy is breaking his in now. This probably should be done at the factory to some extent to avoid all the uncertainty of new owners during break-in. Thanks for the comments. I'll let you know how it goes.

Doug, too bad you're stupid!

Glreno-- Boy can I relate to what you are going thru. I have the Khorus' and the VR6's. I was planning to sell whichever. The thought of putting the 6's back into my main system crosses my mind every day. The only problem is that the Khorus' sound better and better each time I listen. I was so dissappointed in the mids from the Talon's at first, convinced that I had been spoiled by the VR6's. But the Khorus' did so many things great right out of the box that I amm doing as suggested and giving them 500 hrs to break in fully. I am at about 200 hrs now as is Philefreak. These speakers are really getting so good. The improvement in the mids seems to be constantly happening. They have not yet surpassed the VR6's but if they are this good now they desrve the full 500hrs. I have seen such a change in the raggedness of the mids that started out. I have spoken to several others about this speaker and to a person they all say these speakers get beyond fabulous. I have spoken to reviewers that are in the process of reviewing these that have said the same thing. Enjoy them getting better and beteer

carl, have ewe heard the accuton ceramic drivers? i haven't, but want to - lotsa folks say this is the best midrange driver ever. these are the drivers used in speakers like the kharmas. specs on the accuton drivers indicate they are ~20 times faster than any other conwentional dynamic driver. doug

I'm still in the planning stages of a speaker project that will use the Dynaudio Esotar midrange, and I feel that this speaker will have better midrange than all the rest. It's an unbelievable driver, and I won't be skimping on the "whole" versus the sum of the parts, either. I won't have these built in the very near future, though. BTW, have a good chuckle on me, if you (like most on here) think speaker hobbyists can't build anything decent. These may be on my future website.

Carl: The Prodigy is Martin Logan's new $10k speaker that is less seamless between the analogue woofer and the electrostat. RHB isn't over priced. I think it is under priced and so not taken seriously. But their offerings aren't quite high end. My point in mentioning RBH was that I prefer their $1800pr and $3300pr versions' midrange to that of the Talon Korus. Talon beats them in the base though.

Glreno,Be patient the best sound you've ever heard is coming. I'm at 200 hrs. and wonderful.

hey (sy)phill(ys) - it's ewe, again, w/more postings offering absolutely *nothing* constructive. ewe say: "Another dimwitted post from my favorite imbecile Carl_eber. Carl, I'm glad that you've listened to every speaker in existence and can tell us that ONLY maggies aren't overpriced. What a moron you are!" ok, (sy)phill(ys), exactly *who's* the moron here? can't ewe READ? carl said: "IMO" - that means *in my opinion*. nothing more, nothing less. too bad the only opinions *ewe* ever have are that those who don't like only the equipment *ewe* own, are idiots/morons/suckers/tin-eared, ad infinitum, ad nauseum. really constructive... doug

Bookner: I am amazed that the imaging was a problem for you. That's the one thing these things do well with no break in. Having just trade VR6s and having owned many of the speakers you mentioned (Dunlavy IVas included), I'm surprised that was your take on them. These image very well even compared to the VR6s, which were better than the Dunlavys. My sticking point is the the midrange murkyness that the designer says disappears with break-in. Lots of break-in. Jeff Rowland bought these things for his system, as did other equipment manufacturers and well known audiophiles. I am at this point waiting for miracle to happen, but am hearing improvements everyday. Anyway, thanks for sharing your views.

Trelja, sorry the Legacies disappointed you so much. I'm in no hurry to hear them. I like my system right now.

Keep it up, Phill, you're destined for banishment. Then who'll be the crybaby?

Carl, I knew you were a moron, but I didn't know you were a crybaby too. Poor baby.

Carl, if you have any great need to be underwhelmed, then go listen to Legacy speakers. Any of the lot. In my area, they have "group" auditions every year. I usually go to keep up with their products, meet other area audiophiles(and because they have free food/drink). Actually, my first Legacy audition was THE most eye opening experience for me ever in audio. I had collected their catalogs, studied every spec, dreamed about them. They HAD to be the best, it was physics. I saved up enough money(I was maybe 19 or 20), and started to look. A local dealer had a used pair of their onetime flagship model(now called the Signature or Classic???). I brought my best music. And... Nothing. No emotion came to me at all. I had waited 3 years for this. I walked away, and didn't buy. It taught me to never judge a book(or a piece of audio equipment) by its cover(or advertisement - this also goes out to you, Bob Carver). Then about 4 years ago, the "auditions" started to come around. Just like the circus, travelling from city to city. I listened to almost every model. Again, nothing like they advertise. Not bad, just...nothing(to me, at least). I stopped off at a dealer on the way home, and listened to the Coincident speakers which so enthralled me the week before. And I walked out with them. The rest is history, and I still absolutely LOVE them.

Audiogon, is there a reason Phill is still allowed to post here? All of his posts referring to me personally should be deleted, they are wasting your server's electricity. Is there a reason you like having his personal attacks of me on here? If so, we need to discuss that in minute detail. Good day, sirs.

Another dimwitted post from my favorite imbecile Carl_eber. Carl, I'm glad that you've listened to every speaker in existence and can tell us that ONLY maggies aren't overpriced. What a moron you are!

Bookner, I for one, appreciate your take on these. IMO, it seems like the only speakers that aren't "overpriced" are Maggies. I don't care for Wilsons, and ML Quests actually reacquainted me with analog 3 years ago, so I got back into it. I'm unfamiliar with RBH and Prodigy, and haven't heard Legacys in person.

I've heard the Talon Khorus at some length in the company president's home driven by a fortune in Jeff Roland amps. Yes the bass is fast and tight. And that's it. After everthing I'd heard and read about the speaker I was underwhelmed. I've been in audio for 25 years and so have heard and owned a number of fine systems, some even as a dealer. The Khorus' main fault, in my opinion, is that it doesn't sound stage and doesn't have any dynamic response - it sounds dead. Over it I'd prefer the Dunlavy IVa or V, Wilson Cubs or Watt Puppy 6, Maggy 3.6R, Legacy Whisper, and even Martin Logan ReQuest, or and especially Prodigy which is still less money, and even RBH's top 2 speakers because of better midrange, but not better bass. I think the speaker is over priced by more than double. However, they are beautiful and well made. Sorry to disappoint any Talon owner. I am not now a dealer of any audio equipment and have nothing to gain from this opinion, but hope to offer an honest view in exchange for the many helpful posts I've read here recently.

I'm sitting & listening to my Khorus's after about 80 hrs. of break in,by the way listening to Diane Shuur & B.B.King GRP Heart to heart. I now know why I paid more for these speakers Than my fisrt car. Words can not describe. You know how every time you upgrade something you think how can it sound any better? This is it, this is the sound I wanted. Well I'll tell you how, get some Talon's!!!!

Glreno- I know that was a tough call to make. The mids in the Talon's are really coming around. These speakers do so many things so well you just have to keep listening and then dammit they start doing more things with such grace and control. This make being an audiophile a little personal adventure. Life is good.

Carl... I hesitate to respond to you... but here goes... I do not believe this speaker can be described.... it has to be heard... someone said the bass was fast.... it doesn't really describe THIS speaker... once you hear it, you will understand... until then continue to laugh at me.

Thanks Acuujim! That's been my experience so far. I now have a pair, and the upper mids are murky. Sound staging is very good, though. I traded the VSRs for them. I hope I won't be disappointed, but a phone call to the designer convinced me he knows what he's talking about.

Glreno- I bought the Khorus' brand new and I hated the mid right out of the box. They are a design that has taken more break in than anything I have ever had. They are fabulous. I still am not sure they are better better than the VR 6's. They are two fine speakers. If I HAD to get rid of one, I'd keep the VSR's. Glad I don't have to sell either one.

Carl. Iam glad you are in love with your system. THAT is all that matters.

Yes! My room is 85 x 140 light years, or so...Just kidding! My smaller room is around 1800 cubic feet, and my large concrete one is 4200 cubic feet.

carl, i *have* to agree w/you about importance of room set-up. my system, while not cheap, is nowhere *near* some of the hi-dollar set-ups out there, but it's wery musically satisfying, because i'm blessed w/a nice big room - 25'x38'x8.5'. the room is the *most* important component of *any* stereo system, imho...

Acujim, I appreciate that at least you could describe the sound quality of these speakers. OK, so they have a "fast" bass, that's nice. Most any speaker can have "fast" bass, with decent room setup. Either of my cone or planar speakers have unbelievably fast bass, besides the other attributes of these Talons you name. I think YOU ALL need to hear my system...Yesterday, I heard a system at a dealer that costed 6 times what mine costs, but mine sounded like a million dollars by comparison. Perhaps we are all biased by what we like, but I submit that my system is radically more transparent than most, because I know how to set up a room acoustically. I want to hear what's on the recording, and not the room's echo. The room echo at this dealer gave me all the transparency of a boombox on a Wal Mart display shelf...And no, I won't name this dealer (he didn't make me overly angry, so there's no need to roast him on here). Besides, ALL dealers I've ever visited don't know jack shack about setting up a room acoustically...

Mr. Crazy, you don't need to invent any new language, because you can't even use English, no offense. I knew you couldn't articulate any descriptive phrases for this speaker, and I am now laughing heartily at you. Thanks so much, I needed a good chuckle!

Acuujim: Did you buy your Khorus new? How did they sound right out of the box. I've heard a friend's, and they are constricted and wooly in the midrange. I'm told this goes away after an extensive break-in. I also own VR6s, and right now they are not even close to their equal. I also own Magnepan 1.6QRs, which are much faster than the Talons. So what's up?

Carl, I own the Khorus' in one of my systems. The bass response is simply the fastest and most articulate I have ever heard. There is no hangover of notes. The mids and highs are light and airy and they are absolutely seamlessly integrated with the bass. The soundstage and imaging are fabulous the speakers completely disappear. I still own VonSchweikert VR6's. No slouch of a loudspeaker. Yet the Talons match the VSR mid and high liquidity with the BEST bass I have ever heard. Carl they are quite captivating. I'm driving them with Lamm monoblocks fed by a Resolution Audio CD 50 via all Kimber Select cables. These speakers are good

Carl: As soon as invent NEW jargon, I'll use it to explain things to you. Also, there is no way to compare it to any other speaker on the market. From the tone of your message, you will not like to hear this... but, once you really listen to them for an extended period, you will know what I mean. Any owner of these speakers (including myself) will say the same... 'descriptions' of the sound are inadequate to express just how must fun it is to have discovered this speaker.

TO ANY TALON OWNER: I am curious...Tell me, in audio journalistic jargon, exactly what any Talon speaker does better than the competition...and name your idea of that competition. Also, be up front with your listening biases.

Phill, what does a Sony CD player have to do with Talon Khorus'? Your references are vague and the only thing that you are making clear is that you have some sort of grudge towards Talon.

To Phill. Have you heard the Talon speakers?

...and all the $$$ I have left are my dues for the Audiophile Idiots Club. Life is good.

I reckon me & Acuujim are just a couple of idiots in idiot land on idiots get in free day. But we sure are enjoying great sound. What ya think Acuujim. I need some oceanfront property in Tenn. by the way. But need financing from Phill or maybe Joco since he seems to have so much $$$ and since I've spent all my $$$ on speakers.

Phill, is 06896 your real zip code? If so, I take everything back I ever posted about "Joe". Will you adopt me?

Hey Phill you have made yourself perfectly clear so quit flogging a dead horse and move on.

Let me make myself perfectly clear. In my opinion, only an idiot would buy Talon speakers at anything more than 30% or so of list price. The people who buy Talon speakers remind me of the idiots on the classified board trying to sell the Sony SCD-777ES SACD player for $2100 used when it can be purchased from an authorized dealer for $1600 brand new, sealed in the box. There's a sucker born every minute!

I have a Khite center channel that opened up my home theater sound. Voices and dialog sound completely natural with no coloration. I have lisitened to the Khorus's driven by high quality mono amps and they sound completely natural - IE you hear what is recorded with no speaker coloration. The low end responce is fantastic - eliminating the need for a sub-base in home theater and sounding natural with 2 channel. I also listened to these played with a Denon mid-priced receiver. Again, they sounded great. My suggestion, go listen to them, Try Talons website for dealers. Speaker in this price range should be auditioned in person and the Talons are worth the effort to find a dealer.

Tubegroover- I own the Merlin TSM SE's in the sytem in my office and I just love them. Now imagine that level of detail and smoothness and imaging coupled together seamlessly with the fastest (and I do mean no hangover at all of a bass not) bass you've ever heard. You now have the Talon Audio Khorus' They are quite captvating.

Acuujim Your description seems to be the concensus from those that HAVE actually heard the speaker that I have personally spoken to. I am much interested in hearing these speakers especially their bass performance. I would also be interested in hearing the differences with the Merlins which are also fast and "accurate" though less apparent bass than the Peregrine by those who have heard both. Have you heard both and how would you describe the differences? Will

I agree with philefreak. The only ones diparaging the Talon's are those who have never heard them or those that think it is their job to save us from ourselves. I have been listening to high end equipment since my first Audio Research system in 1973. I am fortunate to be able to afford to put whatever I want regardless of cost into my system. The Talon Khorus's are better (by far) than speakers sold at three to five times the price of the Talon's. On a personal note (which really has no place in this thread but what the hell.) If you have heard something at length or own something that is the subject of a thread I value those opinions. All you tree hugging, socialist, Ralph Nader wannabees, go join GreenPeace and chase whaling boats around the Pacific. I am certainly glad I am smart enough to earn the money to pay what I want for what I want and can toss those useless opinions in the Pacific as whale food. Enjoy your music. My ten month old dances like crazy to the Talon's. Life is good

I own a pair Talon Khorus. They are without doubt the best I've ever owned or heard. Fast, so neutral that at first I thought I didn't like it but the more listening I did the more I realized they're just right. All those disk we play over and over, while others get put back in the back because we think they don't sound good. It is the recording engineers job to make a good cd with it's air, detail,tonal accuracy. Not the speakers,the speakers should play out what goes in. I have found myself digging out the old disk and finding them to be real gems hidden for so long, cause my old speakers were to analytical, to bright,some kind of coloration that made those few select cd's get plenty of play cause the speaker coloration plus the cd's colorations matched up so well. But all that changes with the Talon's, you have to relearn all you have learned. Talon's just let you here what recording engineer wants you to here. They are simply incredible. So to the gentleman who has all our money, maybe he should come off some that rusty money & buy a new speaker so advanced that it blows him away. This speaker is for true audiophiles whether they use credit or pay cash,cause it is simply involving to the point of allmost an hypnotic state.

IMO, Talon is considerably overpriced. Beware. Most of the folks who tout this speaker appear to be dealers, employees and the INEXPERIENCED. But don't take my word for it. Go and listen for yourself. But make sure you listen to plenty of competitors at the same price point. If you do, I doubt you'll buy Talon.

Loco, have you heard the Talons? I have and have also heard speakers that range up to $15K. If you think making more money than someone else makes you a better person then you are only deluting and serving yourself and not adding anything of value to this tread. The Peregrine Talons have more than just one 10" woofer and tweeter. There is another 10" woofer inside the cabinet. Having heard the Khoruses and Peregrines, I can only say they do everything right and sound as close to the original recording session as you can get. They are certainly not low cost knockoffs. If they are so good, why are there so many Sonatas for sale or auction?