Talon Loudspeakers

Audiogon: surely Phill isn't still here, is he?

hi carl, the accuton drivers *are* the drivers used by kharma, even their top-model, which runs ~$80k/pair (?!?) they're also known as thiel & partner - no relation to thiel in kentucky - these are german. perhaps ewe should check their specs, awailable at orcadesign: http://www.orcadesign.com/accuton/accuton.htm my understanding is that they are lighter, fast w/plenty of motor strength. also, they are ceramic - glass - not metal. their operation is virtually pistonic in nature... regards, doug ps - i guess i could have yust anwsered: carl, you're an idiot!, & left it at that - now *that* would have been productive, eh? ;~)

Dear Bookner, I have heard through the grapevine about your post on Audiogon regarding your visit to my home. I hesitate responding, but since you mentioned your audition at my home, your post becomes personal. I invite very few people over to my home to listen to my system. This courtesy extended, you should also recall the status of my system: My Khorus' were not broken in, I received the Marantz SA-1 the day before, and I also had new cable in my system. Most audiophiles know that these are less than ideal situations, but I felt that being an audiophile, you could see the significant differences between our speakers and others. For example, low noise floor, speed, and power handling capabilities. Realizing the other virtues such as soundstaging, imaging, timbres, depth would come together as my system broke in. Never did I realize that you would be as uncouth to post your audition on the worldwide web. This is like unto, being invited to your home to meet your wife and family during yardwork and posting on the worldwide web that they were a disgrace. I therefore challenge you to another audition, not at my house this time, but at my office. Or at least an apology for getting personal with out sharing all the facts. We have worked very hard to bring this new technology in loudspeaker design. Delivering a product that has mass and speed coupled to lowering distortion, eliminating compression, and giving accurate time response. This technology is defineable and repeatable which will improve the quality of our listening environments in the years to come. A simple 60 minute audition does not justify anything. Every consumer needs to listen for themselves. Some will pick it up after 2 songs, some will take several auditions, and then some will stick to there 31 flavors of old technology. Let the customers decide!

I resent that you had to call me a name, Sedond. Perhaps you should ask Jon Valin over at TAS, why he got it wrong in his review, then?

read closer, carl - i was poking fun at our buddy phill, commenting on how productive name calling is: NOT!!! ;~) perhaps jon v *did* get it wrong, but i've heard from others that these drivers are one & the same... regards, doug

Acuujim and Philefreak! The Talons are now breaking in and sounding really good. I left them on while diving out of the country for two weeks. That was enough to break-in the mid-range drivers. The soundstaging and imaging of these speakers is better than my VR6s. The bass is very fast and the detail is amazing. They are truly world class. Thanks for the feedback.

I think they like solid state amps best. I've been trying the Bel Canto EVo. They are amazing with Talons. The speed of the digital amp w/ the speed of the Talons are a perfect match. I was negative at first, having $14000.00 speakers driven by $2400.00 amp just didn't seem right. But the sound is wonderful.Glreno, your in for more as you reach the 500 hr. This is what being an audiophile is all about.

Glreno- They keep getting better. Enjoy the music

I'm using an Electrocompaniet AW120 right now. It sounds really good. I was always a tube guy, so I need that richness in the midrange, which EC stuff has. I almost bought the EVo, but was discouraged by a Talon / Bel Canto dealer who said that the EVo has the typical solid state thin midrange (by a tube lover's standards anyway). I might try a low watt SET. These things are very efficient. I use a PS Audio 600, and it hardly shows any current at all to drive these speakers. I hear that they are very good with SETs. Any experinece with that, Philefreak or Acuujim?

Glreno--I am driving my Khorus' with Lamm 1.1 Mono blocks. If you are not familiar with this amp it is tube in the second gain stage and solid state in the others. It gives that wonderful mid bloom yet with all the authority of Krell KSA 250 in the bass combined with an Audio research VT 200 in the mids and highs. Although I am still not completely sold on the Talon's (getting closer each day) I have yet to hear amps that out do the Lamm's. They make the Khorus' sing and also my VR 6's too. Boy am I having a good time.

Glreno, I'm currently having an amp shoot out. I've owned a pair Pass Labs Aleph 2's for a while now and they are great amps. But I think that the Alephs area little soft with this speaker(Talons). I've just completed a home audition of an incredible new design that blew me away. This is of course the EVo which I've mentioned before. I think the EVo might be a liitle forward on bright, forward speakers. That's where you use the real smooth, softer Alephs. The Bel Canto is a real eye opener(ear opener). I've got a Llano Trinity 200 on the way. It's bought on a thirty day home trial, can't beat that. I've heard very positive things about the Llano amp, one thing is for sure it will do a lot to top the EVo. But I'll see(hear).

Your never ending quest to build up the Silverline products is obnoxious and a lie. I had the Silverline Sonatas and I can tell you that you DON'T get what you pay for. The cabinet work is horrible and they use vinyl and not wood veneers. The workmanship is horrible. The bottom plate ripped off mine with minimal effort! The wires inside were barely solderd. In fact two of them were just leaning against the post! The whole design was copied and silverline was sued by Avalon. In haste to make a replacement product, 2 new models were created without much thought except to raise the price. Check the market out. They are selling sonatas cheap and for good reasons. The specs don't live up to the performance. The bass is weak and un-natural. The mids are not coherent with the other drivers. Don't try and get support after the sale. I tried and was basically told I was at fault and would have to pay for everything. Try another speaker, you will thank me for this advice. Joseph audio, coincident are twice the speaker for about the same cost. Stop being ripped off by marketing scams and false specs. And certainly don't listen to the rantings of joeco and his peers. Listen for yourself and buyer beware! Mark

Mike at Talon Audio: Thanks for your post. Although you thing my post was “getting personal” and have called me “uncouth” I take no offense, and hope you have taken no offense either. Being personal or offensive was not my intention. Being accurate was. I don’t think that there is anything uncouth about posting my honest opinion on the web, especially when I “shared all the facts” I had. Nothing injurious was intended by the reference in my 9/19 post to an audition in your home. I thought that mentioning that I heard them in your home would merely illustrate that I heard the speakers under fine listening conditions through an excellent system. (I thought your downstairs large listening room was rather good for how wide and very deep it is – essentially a dead back end. It’s an enviable sound room, as is the amplification in your system.) You obviously don’t recall that I called you only after having heard the speakers playing in one of the model homes at a metropolitan are home show. I asked where I could hear them since the local dealer listed on the web site has or had a disconnected telephone number listed. You invited me to your home and it seemed to me like that was a regular occurrence. I didn’t asked for and didn’t think I was getting any special treatment. I accepted the gracious invitation and we made an appointment. At the appointment, I also accepted your encouragement to stay longer for a home theater demonstration. (An impressive one, I might add – better than home theater systems I’ve heard with Wilson Cubs, and in some ways than all Meridian systems.) After an audition of nearly an hour and a half where you guarded the remote control carefully and even played several tracks off CD’s I’d brought, you asked as I was leaving what I thought of the speakers. I was at something of a loss of what to say because, frankly, I had been “under-whelmed” after what I’d read about them. I told you that for 6 months or more I had been actively searching for new speakers and up grading my system and was hoping that my search for speakers might end with Talons. I indicated expressly that I did not think that the Khorus’ sound staged anywhere near as well as the Wilson Watt Puppy 6s, IMO. That they didn’t surprised me since you’d told me that the speaker designer had spent some years working at Wilson Audio before you found him and started Talon Audio. I mentioned the Chesnokov: Spaseniye sodelal by the Turtle Creek Chorale (track 3 of Reference Recording’s Sampler Volume 2 HDCD) and how the choir and hall ambiance didn’t spread out to either side of the speakers or in any degree of depth or height with defined positions of choir members as they did with the Wilson’s and some other speakers. I’ve heard that track and others we listened to through many well thought of speakers recently. I also compared the Khorus’ to the Maggies, questioned the Khorus’ midrange, and praised the bass, especially that of the Talon sub woofer. That was your chance. Why didn’t you tell to me that you had some new cables? (you did indicate that you loved your power cables, by PS Audio, I believe they were, and you kindly offered to loan me one, to which I politely declined since my quest is for speakers right now.) Why didn’t you say that the Marantz was a day old? Or especially why didn’t you tell me that the speakers were not broken in? Honest, until I say your post, I’d assumed they were broken in and that there were no bugs in your systems as you describe in your post above. What else could I expect? Surely the President of the company would have a well oiled pair of the flag ship speakers all broken in, right in his own home. Unfortunately my ears do not have the ability to detect whether or not something is broken in or not, or that components are a day old, or that cable is new, especially if the implication or assumption is that they are. As I was leaving I mentioned, and you encouraged, that I should hear the speakers again. In spite of being disappointed, frankly, in what I’d heard, I said I’d like to hear them again. You mentioned that you’d have a bigger manufacturing facility opening soon that would even have an audition room. I said I’d be happy to have another listen there when that facility opened. And that is still true. You need not “challenge” me to a second audition. Please let me know when and where you have a properly broken in pair and system to audition, hopefully with a good analogue source. (Yes, I still love the big black disks.) Mike, if you’re trying to sell these speakers on patents, reviews, reputation or pedigree of designers and hype, you may have significant success. (The cabinets nearly sell the whole thing themselves. I expect my wife would love them.) But I’ll buy them only if they sound great, and better than anything else within my budget. (Besides hearing Talon’s again, there are a couple of speakers I want to hear yet before I make a final decision.) In conclusion, it appears, all Audiogon readers, that anything I’ve said about the Talon Khorus speakers should be completely discounted. Preston.

Trelja: Which Concident speaker did you buy? I love their interconnects. I'd really like to hear the Mellenium, Total Eclipse and Super Eclipse. I'm surprised you didn't have anything good to say for the Legacy Whisper. What kind of electronics backed them up when you've heard them?

Dear Bookner, Thank you for your kind and complete response to my post. You went out of your way explaining the occurrences. It may have been my mistake, but I thought that I was very clear in letting you know that you were listening to the Khorus' at less than ideal conditions. One would assume that the President of Talon would have a well conditioned pair of speakers. I tend to be very accomodating to my customers and dealers demands and I am often left without speakers. I am,however, very insistent that my designer's speakers remain in place so we can have consistent R&D. I appreciate your willingness to listen to the Khorus' again under better circumstances. We will have a showroom available to customers at the end of October for auditioning. We will offer assistance with the system and allow the customer to play the music they choose and the volume levels they wish. At this time you will be able to listen at your leisure and offer comments under proper conditions. I would like you to post them whether good or bad, everyone has a right to their opinion. Audio is exciting because we can decide for ourselves what we feel is right. Happy Listening, Mike

I'll agree with you that they sound remarkable on the Rowlands and the designer Tierry informs me they work wonderfully on the Electocompaniet. I however most enjoy them on My 3Watt Bottlehead Paraglows with Vaic Meshplate 2A3's. While I am limited in absolute SPL's I am not in sheer enjoyment. On most of what I listen to, smaller baroque ensembles, Irish & Scottish Folk, Alternative Female Vocalists and such the volume in just fine. A bit more efficiency or power would be nice on larger scale stuff. However I do not find any solid state or push pull design has the kind of air and timbral interity that these little amps posses. And talk about emotion in my room it is absolutely palpable. The combination of triodes and talons is superlative beyond description. I have had more than one friend comment on how amazingly good my sound is even in the lower frequencies. Yes 3Watts with these gives me solid extended bass with a sense of upper harmonics beyond anything I have heard including the Rowland of these. Db for DB I'll put this combo up against anything. The new cobalt alloy output trannies from Magnequest(They are all sold now) should take these qualities significantly further. I have mine on order. I have been toying with the idea of running Bottleheads best 300B with the soon to be meshplate 300B's on a passive Roc to increase my headroom and dynamics. After a discussion with Tierry I may instead simply go with a powere Roc. Clements discussion concerning the Roc with the Khorus was quite convincing and has me stocking up the piggy bank again. Wow what a hotbed of controvesy this thread has and is creating here. Too bad some of the respondents have not heard the Khorus in a proper setting or under the right conditions. To hear them is to love them. To live with them is to eschew all else. jgw(James W. on the Assylum and Soundstage)

All I can say is that with a well designed 2A3 running the meshplate Vaic that you can breathe the air of the recording venue. Much better than even the Vaic Monoplates and I suspect even the legendary Cunningham Monoplates. Talk about liquidity, flow, and emotion. And the bass will still be solid, extended and even more airy in the upper bass. You will hear a sense of harmonic that you have never experienced. I suspect 95 or 96 db is the maximum SPL but it will sound so good you won't care. The Khorus are equally resolving at low levels. The combo with good low powered SET's is the most musically satifying experience I have had short of hearing Mrs Anthony Rooley (Emma Kirkby) and the Academy of Ancient Music live at the Ambassador auditorium a few years back. Try it, James W.

Mike@Talonaudio.com: I'll look forward to hearing the Khorus again in November, perhaps even after I get COMDEX behind me. And if, you want, I can report my view here. Stay tuned.

You are kidding yourself if you think that a 2A3 can power the Talon's effectively. Yes you will get sound from them, but you will not discover what the true SET sound is all about. The Talons are not efficient enough. Most dynamic speakers are not. Add in a big ole guitar woofer, inefficient X-over and you will kill the SET sound. You need horns to make a SET sound good. A 845 based SET might be a good match as they provide 20 - 40 watts and can handle a wider impedance load. You are better off looking for a better speaker to use with a SET amp. Actually a better speaker, period. Fred

Fred: Respectfully you have no idea what you are talking about! I'm doing it and the sound is remarkable in my room. I prefer it to their sound even on 400W Rowland Stero Amp that Tierry uses. Granted I am limited to 95 or 96db but the combo on the Talon's is absoulutely magical. I suggest you compare the impedance swing of Talon Khorus' to most other audiophile speakers. It's pretty Damn stable. So no I don't need an amp capable of handling a wide impedance swing. I have some quite hardened audiophile friends who have dropped their jaw and messed their pants bassed on the quality of sound I'm getting. (Emphasie on the bassed). Yes the bass is more correct to me in terms of speed harmonic and air then big solid state. Chew on that for a minute and dump the genralizations about what will and what won't work. Fred I suggest you head to bottlehead and look at Doc B's Straight 8's a non-horn design that is killer with SET's. I don't know what your game is Fred, but I know what I hear. Don't you get tired of being so negative. James W.

Sorry, but I have had over 35 years of experience with audio gear, mostly SET amps. I know from experience that dynamic speakers do not work well with SET amps. I also can tell by your extreme bias towards the talons that you will not listen to fact or reason. Take a trip over to the SET forum at the Audioasylum. Tell them what you are doing with your SET amps and they will laugh you out of there. Like I said earlier, you will get sound but not the magic SETs can produce. Even your beloved talons can't break the laws of physics. I don't expect you to understand. You seem to quote the specs from the brochoure as if they were facts. 17Hz to 25Khz indeed! I bet the impedance curve and rated sensitivity are also bogus. Fred

he fred, if james & his buddies tink he's getting good sound w/set's on his talons, so be it. it's prolly wery nice. i tink, unless yuve heard *his* set-up, ewe can't make a judgment that it's not working. *everyone* knows the generalized limitations of set amps & dynamic-driver-speakers. i mean it's not like he's saying he goes skydiving every weekend w/o a parachute, & enjoys it! regards, doug

Sedond: (just in case your reading Fred I'll throw a few more thoughts your way in the third person!) A voice of reason! Thank you. How does Fred know the specs are bogus? Has Fred heard The bottlehead Paraglows? Has he really heard the Talons? Granted he may have 35 years of experience,but not with my setup. And it's not like I am some boob who fell of the turnip truck just yesterday. I have owned a ridiculous amount of stuff in the 30 some years I have played with audio. Basically from early teenager to adult. Yes SET's are new to me. I have been playing with them for just over a year now. But I can assure you that the bottlehead stuff is not typical SET and does in fact work remarkably well with the Talon's I wonder if Fred really even reads or thinks before he reacts. Reminds when my dad said you know son I used to walk 30 miles to school in the snow and you kids want your own car to drive. He is so biased based on his experience that he is not open to the possibility of anything but his own experience. Okay so I'm deluded and off my nut. But the truth of the matter is that I have not up to this point heard a system that I prefer to my own. Happy Listening, James W.

Hey James! Thanks for the response about SETs and the Talons. I am going to try an Art Audio Jota with them to see what happens. Not a exactly a three watter, but I am looking forward to the hearing the strengths of these type of amplifiers through the Talons. Your info is much appreciated.

You might want to consider the Bel Canto SET40. It is an 845 based SET amp with 37 wpc. The output tubes last about 8000 hours. I have one on order to audition. I have had good feedback from others using this amp. It will also give you the needed power for dynamcis and SPL's. I agree with Fred on this point. I had the Vonschweikert VR-6's. I had a 2A3 SET on them and it played well... but when I biamped and ran the MT module with the SET it then became magical. The VR-6's are rated at 96db efficient 1W1M. I would not expect a 3.5 watt amp to make the talons sing very well. It is also a very tough on the output tubes hen you drive them hard, they won't last long. The 845 tube will give you the bandwidth and power to handle the dynamic swings. My friend had the Jota and it is a fine sounding amp. It is quite expensive and you are limited to what brand output tubes you can use. Just pointing out another possible option. You can email me for more info... mike

Thanks Mike! I forgot about Bel Canto. Let me know what your feeling are about it after you audition it. I had Cary 805Cs at one time. They use the 845. I think these amps are either highly over-rated or just didn't work in my system. What speakers are you using with the Bel Canto?

I'm breaking in a pair of Khites and a ROC sub, using an EVo amp (great match). While I have a couple of hundred hours of break in still ahead of me (though hopefully not 500 like I've read here) there's a lot about these speakers that seems right. Very fast and articulate, particularly in the bass, with what I can only call an emotional presence begining to emerge in vocals. Given how high the bar on performance expectations has been set for these speakers I can appreciate the intensity of these postings. And then they do take a different path to the music, away from high-end speakers which lack real bass and emotion, offering instead treble detail (Silverlines strike me that way). I'm anxious to get them broken in, but I'm already having fun, even when I find myself 2 rooms away from the speakers and a wonderful song has floated into the room -- clear, articulate, and rich.

Glreno.. I have the VonSChweikert VR-7's. I am using the Thor Audio preamp TA-1000. I am just expermenting with amps and the BEl Canto seems to get great reviews. We will see. mike

Glreno.. I have the VonSChweikert VR-7's. I am using the Thor Audio preamp TA-1000. I am just expermenting with amps and the BEl Canto seems to get great reviews. We will see. mike

Mikem,Glreno: I am not advocating that everyone should go out and do this. It's just that the combo of Dan Schmalle's(Doc B)Bottlehead Paraglows running with Vaic Meshplate 2A3's and GE 5 star 5965's and a number of tweaks I have done are absolutely astonishing. Yes I agree more power would be nice and certainly the Jota or even an 845 would provide more volume and perhaps a bit more drive. What you have to understand is that the combination of a parallel feed output trannie and the Vaic's have authority and drive that don't take a backseat to anything. Doc's Parabee(300B version of same type would probably be even better with 8 watts. But if you follow the threads on tube assylum or bottlehead.com you will hear people screaming about the musicality of 45's. I realize that is to low at less than 2 watts. But according to a few people the meshplates sound amazingly similar to 45's and yet the Vaic tubes have amazing slam. Why do I love them? Air, palpable air and emotion like nothing else I have heard. Make every solid state and push/pull tube sound anemic, thin, hard dry, closed in etc. Pace and rythmn are better than anything I have heard. And of course these are things the Talon already excells at. So just imagine if you will. Yeah it's only 95 to 96db max but oh is it glorious. James W.

Vrauthor: At the risk of taking a different approach to break in. I have spoken at length to Tierry about the break-in phenomenon. I think the Talon's pretty much establish themselves with around 100 hours or so. Yes some of the sublties keep getting better after that, but I think a large part of the extra hours is growing accustomed to the way they sound compared to other speakers you have owned. After a couple of weeks of listening go back and try and listen to your old speakers? It will suprise you how hard they are to listen too. Believe me I have a hard time enjoying anything else anymore. Happy listening, James W.

Hi James and Mike! One thing I've noticed about the Talons is that they do seem to be more efficient than the 90.5 rating they are given. My amplifier runs off of a PS Audio P600. When I was driving the VR6s with the same amp, the output voltage of the P600 was reading 210. When driving the Talons, the output voltage is 170. Yet my VR6 speakers were rated more efficient than the Talons at 96db efficiency. I spoke to Mike at Talon about this, and he said that in the real world, the Khorus is more efficient than the specs indicate because the speaker has no compression. Clement Perry mentions this in his review of the Khorus. I am receiving an Art Audio Jota at 20 watts per channel later this week, so this will give me some example of how well these speakers work with lower powered amps. But I don't doubt that these speakers will do things not normally associated with current mainstream technology. I would love to try them with a 3 watt SET. Just don't have one to do it. Maybe I can borrow one from Welbourne Labs, which is just down the street from where I live. I'll let you know.

Glreno: It would be fun to hear what you think if you get a chance to run it on some Welborne Moondogs. I think you will be startled at just how much 3 watts will do with these babies. Of course in a bigger room you probably wouldn't be satisfied. My room is 17 X 13 X 8. The other thing that kills you is how immense the soundstage is with the meshplate Vaic. This is going to sound like sacriledge but since I use a very tweaked top-o'the-line Marantz DVD for my listening my system doubles with the TV for home theater. You would be stunned at how you can seperate out musical lines you were never even vaguely awayre of and street scenes just floor you with all the distinct focused noises in a wide range of locations. And voices just simply sound convincingly real. Hell I don't need surround the results are so convincing. And bass is quite astonishing although I suspect Clement and Tierry have both convinced me I need a Roc in the near future. Tierry assures me it will give me the effect of having at least another 3db. Happy listening and tinkering, James W.

Jgw -- thanks for the break-in advice. I bought this Khite/ROC set up purposely to find the best solution to quality music while still doing HT. Cool to hear you're having success using stereo talons for a similar purpose. I have an interconnected ring of rooms -- kitchen/living room/family room/entry way -- even without the sub, the Khites send beautiful music to the far corners of every room. Amazing. With the ROC my son comes into the living room worried that there is an earthquake shaking the walls.

Philefreak - I think you will love the Llano amp(s). I'm using an S200 driven by a Joule Electra LA100 preamp. Very very nice. Look forward to your report. JB

Actually the Khites are remarkably good and frankly I prefer there sound to anything but the Khorus and the Peregrine. What is amazing is how well the Khite's will do low frequencies by themselves. With the Roc they make an awesome SAT/SUB system. Again the cool thing about Talon is that all there speakers have the same sound. The larger models are more dynamic, will play louder and have a deeper bass. The Khorus also has more upper frequency extension which is not all that apparent on most recordings. Although there is a bit more air and more upper frequency bloom. Here is a wild thing from Tierry Budge the designer. You can actually put a Khite, A Peregrine, or A Khorsus in any combo as a pair and they will match almost seemlessly. I kid you not, they are that well balanced spectrally between each other. Yup I have heard the Roc at Tom Miller's place(read his review in Perfect Vision) and at Tierry's. Awesome is the only word on Theatre and musically it is just right. Watching Jurassic Park at Tierry's is quite an experience. I hope to get a Roc into my system in the near future. James W.

jgw, I haven't had the opportunity for a side by side comparison, but given how close you say they all sound to each other, the Khites with the ROC deserve to be offered as their own package. The sub is so good and fast, the Khites do bass so well, the trio may out do the Peregrine because of the ability to position the bass appropriately for any given room. The affordable Khorus.

Vrauthor: I would agree that a Roc with Khites has the potential to be better than the Peregrines by themselves. Because you can obviously ideally position the woofer and the satelittes. One thing is that you will find once you get settled with your Khites is that if your willing to take a bit of time subtle adjustments can make significant improvements. Just like the Khorus and Pergrine the Khite are not only sensitive to low frequency standing waves like other speakers, but also to the same effects in the high frequencies. Subtle movements of a 1/4 inch or less can make noticeable difference in terms of locking them into a room. I have found difference in a 1/16" of toe in or sidewall placement. This may seem at first ridiculous but once they are broken in it is worth tinkering with. For what it's worth. James W.

I was talking to Joe Fratus of Art Audio today about the amp I bought. He asked what speakers I was using. When I told him I own the Khorus, he said he heard them two weeks ago and "it was unbelievable what those speakers can do. They're great." He said that he heard them driven with a 12 watt SET, and thinks his 6 watt 300b amp just coming out would easily drive them.

Glreno: In a smaller to moderate size room with baroque chamber music, alternative female pop singers, Irish and scottish folk music etc. 3 to 3.5 Watts does quite nicely. If you Run them with a Roc you could probably run 2A3's in an even larger room and/or with larger scale stuff. I'd consider a 300B, but I want to wait and see what people think of the new Vaic Meshplate 300B's. I really wonder if you can get the same kind of air, midrange and upper frequency bloom out of a 300B. The Vaic Meshplate 2A3's also kick more serious heiny on the Talon's then you might imagine. No question the Talon's love triodes! James W.

Hi James! I got my Jota today and it drives the piss out of the Talons using the VV32B at 20watts per channel. It plays as loud as the Electrocompaniet AW120, which is what I was using previously. The Jota takes 310 volts from my P600, where as the Electrocompaniet took only 170 to drive the Talons. I agree! SET amps sound very good on the Talons.

Awesome bud! I keep trying to tell people how wonderful SET's and Talon's are and people tend to look at me funny or send me email's about how it can't be done. How big is your room and what type of stuff do you listen to and how loud? Would you mind comparing/contrasting the differences between the Electro and the Jota. James W.

That is an interesting comparison. The Jota actually has a less lush midrange than the Electrocompaniet. Both work extremely well with these speakers. I obviously like the Jota more, but I'm a tube guy. What is amazing is that the bass with this SET is awesome! It rattles the floor on some CDs. The solid state obviously is better to some degree, but not as much as you would think. The Jota gets the nod for inner detail, mid-range purity, and soundstaging. My tube biases probably come through with this comparison. I've never kept a solid state amp very long, but the Electrocompaniet is the best I've had. My room is 14 by 8 by 26. It is opens to another room on one side where the speakers are, and a huge, thick drape. I listen to just about everything except rap and country. I like new age, light jazz, easy listening, rock, musicals, classical....like I said, about everything else. I just got the new spikes for the Talons from Mike. They are much better than the ones that came with the speakers. I don't know if you are familar with the concept, but they aren't your normal spikes. Tierry has designed 3 made of a softer material then the forth. He says that this directs the mechanical energy to one spike or point source for dispersion into the floor instead of spreading it out into all four corners of the speaker. Creative, huh? I also just put multi-wave into my P300 and P600. Too many changes, too little time to listen.

Glreno: Out of curiosity do you think that leaness may be due to break-in. I would imagine it will take a couple of weeks just for the tubes to settle. My impression of my Meshplate 2A3's altered substantially over a hundered hours of running them. I wouldn't doubt the bass quality at all. I get fairly slamming bass with 3 watts although the level doesn't get real loud, but then it doesn't in any other part of the range either. But it is solid with drive, impact and detail that would make you smash almost any solid state I have heard including the big boys. And of course with Tierry's loading technique I'm getting around 20 Hz in a 17 foot long room. Impossible, nope it's in the loading. I have heard one of Tierry's older less sophisticated designs do close to 20hz in a friend 10 foot long room. Yeah I have seen the new spikes. They look very cool and I have no doubt they work very effectively. Until I can swing the cost, I'll use my audio point brass/standard steel spike combo which works quite a bit more effectively than all steel. I have to come up with the rest of the bucks to cover the new cobalt alloy output trannies I'm getting. I'd love to hear the Jota and I'll bet it will flesh out quite a bit over the next 100 hours or so of listening. I'll agree on the inner detail and mid-range purity that triodes have over anything. What might suprise you is that the Paraglows with meshplates have flat response out to 47K maybe a bit more. In combo with the Khorus the high's seem to have bloom and airiness with timbral details that go well beyond what I hear in Push/pulls and other highly review speakers. Bass response is flat to about 10Hz maybe a bit lower according to the guys who measure that stuff. It really is hard to listen to anything else. Yup I've become darn spoiled! James W. the tubes to

I think you're right about the tube break-in, but I wouldn't describe the sound as lean. If anything, I think the Electrocompaniet has a tad too much bloom for my taste. It was a great match with the Maggies, which is what I bought it for. The Jota is already starting to flesh out more, with the soundstage getting wider and deeper. I am very happy with it, and if it gets better, great!

Hey Gary: How's the Jota doing at this point. I was chatting with Tierry a bit about your situation as well. I think both of us would like to hear what your amp is doing. I'm pretty hardcore about lower power, but it would still be a lot of fun to hear 20+ watts of real triode on the Khorus. Are you running it with 32's or 52's. Very curious???? James W.

Hi James! It sounds great! Bass is as solid and powerful as the solid state amp I had before, but with more detail. It can rock, or play delicate passages equally well. The sound is harmonically rich and natural, and the soundstaging is wider and deeper than anything I've experienced before. I'm using the VV32B, but I will buy the 52Bs and try them just for kicks. My Jota has the bigger transformers and electronics designed for the 52B, so both can be used.

Gary: Very cool! I know Tierry's getting excited about listening to the lastest Cary 805, but that jota sounds like one hell of a fine amp if you want serious triode SPL's. My little Paraglows still do a more than adequate job for most of my listening. James

When I started this post on Sept. 11th I had no idea of the tremendous response it would get. Thanks for the input. I have recently purchased the Peregrines and am waiting for them to break in. Just one more response to this post and it will make one hundred responses. Wow!

OK ELB, now go back and count the posts that have substantive content and are not bent on arguing or undermining the integrity of others and you'll find the count is much less. Arguing subjective opinion without a baseline of common respect is pointless. It's a hobby man. Listen with your ears, look with your eyes and buy with your dollars. Sharing enthusiasm and respecting others opinions is a good way to make these boards fun for all of us. Grant