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Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


michaelgreenaudio

Showing 8 responses by cd318

cd318
2,636 posts
 
There should be no good reason to remove an amplifier case cover. The cover protects you from a possibly fatal shock and the components from possibly fatal damage (and dust).

Case resonance issues in amplifier design are best left to the designers, but if you are concerned you can always experiment with means of physical isolation via platforms, air bladders, etc

Some manufacturers such as Naim Audio have been physically isolating/decoupling their circuit boards for decades.


cd318
2,636 posts
 
You do have to be careful in what you read about in audio. There is so much nonsense spouted ad infinitum. The worst of it intentionally. 

Ultimately you should be able to save yourself a lot of energy, time and money if you are able to consider the motives behind the words.

The practices of the recording and broadcasting world are one good place to start because they understand that time and money are finite resources.



cd318
2,636 posts
 
Attention seeking, narcissistic, compulsive, repetitive, random, useless argumentative verbiage can admittedly be mildly entertaining on occasion.

Eventually though the lack of meaningful interaction or discourse just smacks of desperation and control freak issues.
You get the feeling of enormous anger issues and barely concealed hostility behind an incoherent attempt to shine and dazzle.

Luckily we don't know anyone like that here.






cd318
2,636 posts
 
@mapman timely advice. You can tweak all you want but you're much better off playing some music. 

Rockin' here in the UK with the Doors. God, I love this band! Even more when the sun is shining.
cd318
2,636 posts
 
The entire history of tweaking has achieved nothing but lead all and sundry who followed down blind alleys where they were effectively blinded by pseudo science and often mugged of not inconsiderable amounts of money.

Spiking has been perhaps the most idiotic of all tweaks. Instead of reducing resonance issues it often exacerbates them.

Real progress involves technological or more likely engineering advances. Unfortunately these are few and far between because market forces rule with an iron hand.

Exactly how far you can tweak a mediocre product and keep it cost effective is a question for the manufacturer to consider. Instead it's often seen as an opportunity for snakelike charlatans to climb on board of the get-rich-quick bandwagon at the expense of mislead enthusiasts.

Thankfully this forum still has members who are freely willing to share their often not inconsiderable knowledge and experience. 
cd318
2,636 posts
 
@prof  Your experience at the dealers is one that is shared by more than a few of us.

You take time off work, and may travel a considerable distance (100k in my case, don't laugh but UK is not the US) to get to listen to pair of speakers that you know must be great. They were designed by a legend in the industry, they've been reviewed well in the press and the dealer is a very nice guy. You really want to like them and they should sound great but they don't because you can hear slight but definite coarseness where the tweeter crosses over to the bass. So disappointment follows.

As you said, if you were a newbie you might not hear it if you've abandoned a critical mindset. Then you've either got to do the return journey or put up with the issue. You could even try tweaking and waste more time and money. Whichever path you pursue more disappointment will surely follow you. 

I imagine that for most people audio is but one way to pursue relaxation (sometimes stimulation). Stress free as far as possible. As much fun as possible. And for me as much tonal density as possible!

At some point we want to stop chasing magic and get off the roundabout to smell the flowers. Hi-Fi can be like a marriage, enjoy what you have but it doesn't mean you aren't allowed to look occasionally! 
cd318
2,636 posts
 
@glupson What is wrong with the Koss Porta Pro?

Nothing! I've yet to hear any headphone that sounds more vivid, more alive in the mids. If ever a product deserved it's classic status it's the Portal Pro's.

The discontinued Jays v-Jays were also brilliant in a similar way.

cd318
2,636 posts
 
A good question to ask before we get embroiled in the highly contentious business of home experimentation might be, 'What, if anything other than a monumental waste of money and time has the entire history of tweaking achieved?' Walk the walk indeed.

Apart from taking care in buying and careful setting up, is there anything more we the consumers need to concern ourselves with? Interconnects (?), loudspeaker cables (??), contact enhancers (??), mains conditioners, magic pens (???), fuses (?????), cable supports (??????) etc.

Serious, highly qualified and experienced engineers, never mind the proverbial man on the street would laugh at some of the lunacy perpetuated in the pursuit of good sound.

Surely it's the job of the designer to research and develop the product in preparation to delivering it to the market.
It's a gross conceit to believe that we can do a better job than the designer and then get angry when people disagree with us!

Instead we might be best advised to first learn exactly what we are looking for and only then to seek it out by listening.
Know thyself my friend.

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