System synergies: Chaotic or predictable?


When speaking of system "synergies", do you consider these to be chaotic? or are they a predictable sum of the character of the components?  I'm surprised at people who think they can predict the sound of a system from their perceptions of the components (derived, in turn, from other system combinations), and even more surprised and suspicious of the 'tone control' approach to purchasing cables and amplifiers suggested by another forum member (who does happen to be a dealer). 

I think these two views are contradictory. If we think that components have 'magical' synergies beyond our ability to measure, then it seems unlikely that we also can predict how combinations of components will sound.

ahofer

Showing 7 responses by ahofer

I agree that is an eminently sensible approach to start with the speakers.  The "striking gold" part is inconsistent, however, with the rest, which was the point of the OP.

I know this isn't the forum where people want to discuss this, but the frequency response of your cables better be flat, or your cable is defective.  Fortunately most are, to a nearly perfect null test with one another.
I'm not really interested in debating this here, because everyone is sick of it.  I just think the burden of proof is on proponents to show that they *sound* different when you don't know which cable is in the system - and I'm all ears for that. The opposite has been demonstrated enough times tp be a reasonable baseline expectation.  Therefore my prior is that expensive cables are the emperors without clothes (and a very high-margin emperor for dealers).  A null-test can easily show that two cables of vastly different price typically present exactly the same electrical signal at the input posts of the speaker.  Presented with exactly the same signal, Speakers should exhibit identical behavior or...we have a speaker problem.


I don't think wine or cooking analogies are apt here. I'm also pretty sure you are wrong about wine composition, and even gas chromatography of wine.  Measurements are quite developed and component understanding has allowed the introduction of so-called "Frankenwines":

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16136833 
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cloned-frankenwines-fool-even-experts-hhh7qssp7

I have a ton of respect for sommeliers, because they have to do BLIND identifications in order to get certified.  These are some of the hardest tests in the world.  I recommend the book "Cork Dork", on passing the sommelier test, to everyone here.

To my knowledge neither blind nor null testing has successfully demonstrated *audible* differences with cables (without inserts & such, obviously). I could be wrong, but if it had happened, it seems to be flying under the radar.   There seems like a strong case to start from the null hypothesis of no difference and ask for proof to the contrary.

As for the other nonsense with kosst, it's a shame it has become personal.  Dave offers a great service, with an unmatched variety of brands to listen to under one roof.  Y'all should go out there if you are in shopping mode.  Just because we don't see eye to eye on some of his more extraordinary claims doesn't mean I don't appreciate a good dealer when dealers are disappearing.

I'm in Tokyo right now on a business trip. I'm hoping to go to one of those "audiophile bars" tonight and get my SET+horns on.
In particular, “musical” needs a lot of disambiguation. It seems to have come to mean a more old-fashioned, midrange prominent sound with perhaps a touch of even harmonics?
Honestly, I can't make much of the last few posts. But sound waves are, comparatively, simple and well understood. Human hearing is not, and only seems to get more complicated past the ear.