I guess, I have personally had probably five systems were I did this, starting many year ago with the Namichi ac leakage voltage meter. I have heard it also on at least five friends' systems.
But really it is the ground loop issue which is always there with each chassis grounded through the ac cord as well as through the interconnects to other chassis. Many sources have no chassis ground even if they have three prong plugs.
I do agree, however, that few demonstrators don't bother with this. |
Maxwellssilverhammer, are you speaking of the Galileo speaker cables or the Galileo Universal Speaker Cells? I have heard the expensive Galileo cables at CES, but they are beyond my means. The Universal Cells, I have. They are great! |
Almarg, I agree there is a slight risk and that in a balance circumstance there is probably little benefit, but personally I don't like balanced systems. |
Hey, Dave, I wish I could say, come on up and hear for yourself, but alas I am in the mountains of NM for the summer.
I should say that I brought my three Universal Cells and their Basik speaker wires and ics with me to NM. This is not to say that the Apexs aren't better but the Universal Cells are a must. |
Fplanner2010, I think I understand what you are attempting to do and don't understand why you are doing it. I think you have two sets of Apex speaker wires running from your amp to each Universal Speaker Cells and one set of pigtails from the Cells to your speakers and that previously you had one set of your Apex speaker wires connected directly to your speakers bypassing the Universal Cells. Forgive me if I misunderstand, but I would simply get another set of pigtails to run between the Cells and the speakers and remove the second set of Apex cables. Or get another set of Universal cells. This would be expensive and I suspect overkill. |
Fplanner2010, now I am more confused. What does "both Apex main and Apex pigtails hooked to speaker cell input" mean? I know there are pigtails on the ends of Apex speaker cables. Presumably these are not what you mean. I know that the Universal Speaker Cells come with Basik speaker wires. Is that what you mean by Apex pig tails? If this is so, who suggest that you do this? I would not expect that have fully shielded Apex speaker wires with unshielded Basiks would be best.
If none of this is the case, just ignore me. |
Fplanner2010, I now understand. I can only imagine what it must be like dealing with the Apex speaker wires at the Universal Speaker Cells. When I connected my single run of Apex speaker wires, they wanted to twist the Universal cells onto their sides. I just put a lead weight on overnight and let gravity twist the Apex into level. |
Tvad, "Clearly, hard metal bowls do not break-in." Are you presuming yourself the expert? I thought it improbable myself until I heard it. Ted Denny thinks it is some adjustment of both the component and the MIGs to their combined resonance. As always, you are more confident that man knows all natures secrets and I that we have only begun. Needless to say, I reject your dismissal. |
Well, there is some truth to what Feil says. I was asked to be a reviewer for Dagogo and with many misgivings I agreed and thought had an agreement that I could review what I wanted. It did not work out. I then joined SoundStage and took two reviews that I had done originally for Dagogo, the LSA1 Statement speakers and the Synergistic Research cables with me.
All was going well until on the Tidal thread here, when asked about various amps I said that the Gryphons were not what I consider "world class." This caused much discomfort for SoundStage and I was asked to leave. My remaining reviews were published and in many respects I was relieved to review no longer. A reviewer cannot really be free to say what his or her experiences are in postings.
Feil knows that I do this often, and he has often taken exception to this, but not with any basis, just jibes that he thinks are cute. I have learned to ignore him. As to his warning, I think that I only say what are merely my experiences. I trust few reviewers and think you too should be critical. |
I had an experience, yesterday, that I almost cannot believe. I continue to seek good reproduction in my summer home. I had SR MIGs under the Weiss Dac202, the H-Cat linestage, and the Sanders Magtech. I was getting satisfying sound, but nothing special. At home I had been using MIGs under the Mac that serves as my server but had yet to do that here.
It was easy to do as the Mac is a laptop. I let the music play and put the MIGs in the pin-point position. The apparent sound stage went up about three feet and became much wider and more open.
I guess this has limited application, but if you do use a computer as a source, try MIGs under it. |
Theaudiotweak, I will be back in Texas in late September or early October. |
Tvad, no what I said was true. I bought the PowerCell at retail before I became a reviewer for Dagogo. Reviewers are considered in the industry and get accommodation prices from almost all manufacturers. It has nothing to do with their reviews. Manufacturers do, however, like reviews that end with the reviewer saying that they could not allow the component to go back and bought it.
When are you going to get around to hearing the Synergistic Products that you seem so convinced are worthless? |
Glory, I have always liked the Accelerator but have never tried it between my preamp and amp. |
We all make investments in our sound reproduction. If we fine a greater improvement in cabling than in electronics, is there something wrong with this? Over the years, I have read countless articles about what percentage of your investment should be in speakers, etc. All I can say is that the author must have lacked thoughts about what to write about. I have never seen an article on how much of the investment in a house should go to doors. |
Bacardi, it is not just physical looks. To use XLRs with your single-ended system, you will have to use XLR to RCA converters. My advice is don't use XLRs unless you have balanced inputs and outputs. |
My spikes came in a plastic bag. I have noticed that some were bent on the ends. Nothing like little hooks to grab the carpet.
But I agree that they are a major improvement. |
Bacardi, I had misunderstood what you posted. Now you are in a quagmire. Some like balanced sound and others do not. I hear no benefit. Much depends on whether the components really have two circuits and thus are truly balanced or whether they merely have transformer coupling and pseudo balanced circuits. |
I only have the Tesla SE Precision AC cord that comes with the SR PowerCell 10SE MkII to experiment with the new choice of resistor plugs and everyone has different tastes, but I much prefer the silver plugs. There is more information and realism of the soundstage. |
Maxwellssilverhammer, I must admit that at CES when I saw that they were going to be demonstrated on a StillPoints rack, I doubted that they would be very impressive, but I also knew that Denny would not do so were they not. Like everyone in the demonstration, I was very impressed.
Like you, I have no real understanding of why they would improve the sound., but I now have six sets. I also know that where you place them under a component makes a big difference. I do wonder if what is under them has any further impact, but I have not really tried to assess this. |
Flashunlock, my H-Cat amp has its transformer on one side and I do put one MIG under it there.
I have found that on many components, I have to place MIGs to assure the balance of the component on them. I have light components and heavy SR pcs. This means that I have to put a MIG under the IEC mount or put support under the pc. The MIGs are slippery on purpose.
I have also found that slight changes in the placement can greatly enhance the benefit of the MIGs. Trial and error are your only recourse.
I agree with you about pinpoint orientation, but it took me a long time to come to this conclusion and your equipment has to be first rate. |
Ozzy, I believe it, in fact I have experienced it. Because of the weight of the SR cables and the slipperiness of the MIGs on the acrylic shelves of the StillPoint rack, I have to carefully place the MIGs under my preamp. I have thus moved the MIGs around in the Pin Point setup and heard major changes in the sound.
I also recently had an instance where the Exemplar/Oppo was suspended by only two of the MIGs and the SR Hologram D. I moved the MIGs around until all three MIGs alone where suspending the player. The sound was, not surprisingly, much better. |
Sabai, I don't understand what you mean in the sentence, 'When I removed an older power cord and swapped my Gabriel Gold Reflection power cord into the Tesla Plex which is my wall receptacle that leads to the Tesla Plex SE it was a day and night difference.' Can you explain? |
I spent some rewarding time in the SR suite and heard the demonstration of the new PowerCell 4 for $1250. It was not compared with anything else but was demonstrated with and without charging. With was substantially superior.
Then there was a demonstration of the new power cables with the option of what resistance was on the charging. There was a substantial difference between the silver and black resistances.
Overall, even on the second day of the RMAF, their sound was one of the very best at the RMAF. I must admit that I payed little attention to other rooms using their cabling or room treatments. |
Bacardi, I must admit that I failed to ask that question. I heard only a comparison on the pcs running the two PowerCell 4s. I also heard no costs for the new pcs. |
Glory, by the "stock" wires, I assume you mean the Basiks that come with them. Yes, I have used them as well as Precision Reference between my line stage and amp, Apex between both my preamp and the phono stage, Oppo player, and Weiss dacs. I have also used them with Townshend ics. In all of these cases I much prefer them with the Universal Cells. I will also say that the better cables continue to prove superior with the Universal Cells. |
Scottmac62, at the RMAF StillPoints unveiled their new Ultra SS feet. I have them under my speakers now in place of the StillPoints Component Stands and they are far superior. They use what they call "new technology" which seems a big improvement. While I thought very highly of their Component Stand and Rack, I never was impressed with the original feet. |
Glory, I here what you are saying, but I think you are waisting your time. |
The benefit of the SR Teslas is being charged. In my opinion, no top cable that is not charged can beat a charged cable in this world of RFI. |
Keithr, you can assess each with no time on them or put all into a strip and break them all in before deciding which you want. Do you have the new Teslaplex mk II? |
Keithr, ironically I replaced an old Sound Applications outlet with the Teslaplex. I did notice improvement over several days in it but short of the eight days that 200 hours represents. I think the key to the Teslaplex and to their cheater plugs is purely the Tesla coil zapping.
I think the charging is the key to the SR cables along with zapping. They are also a mix of three entirely different sounding circuits and are hand made. |
Joeyboynj, it would be interesting to side by side compare the new and old SR pcs. |
Lifeengineer, the Teslaplex SE looks quite different. I have one and may today put it into my system replacing the Teslaplex. |
Lifeengineer, I have it but took it out to put in the SE. It does have many of the attributes of the original but a good deal more so. It is very quiet, dynamic, and open. |
Bacardi, there are a pair of connectors at the wall plug on the Precision AC. One is from the MPC and one is for the resistors. The MPC has two connectors as in the past. One charges the PowerCell 10 SE MkII and the other the Precision AC. The resistor choice is also on the Galileo Element cables. |
Bacardi, yes, they are new. They are silver, thinner than the Apex, and are charged as all their cables. They are shown as costing $5000 for one meter. |
Ulysse21, the Galileo MPCs sound much better than the older MPCs, especially on ics. I expect that the Galileo spinoff speaker cables will come with Galileo MPCs as the Galileo Element Silver cables did. If you are going to buy these new speaker cables, I would keep your older MPCs. |
Ulysse21, I don't have much to say. I do use the BASIK speakerwires that come with the Galileo Speaker Universal Cells and the Cells in my NM home. I leave behind my Apex speaker cables in the summer. I don't have any experience with the Designers References, however.
My guess is that keeping the Designers Ref. option is your best bet. |
Glory, my question is still can they be used on StillPoints racks? Somewhere I heard they were used on some else's racks at CES. I guess what you are saying is that their EMI isolation is more important than vibration isolation. Do you use MIGs under the Tranquility Bases or under the computer? |
Heykay, the SR PowerCell 4 SE is better than the original PC 4. Everything is better than the PS P300, IMHO. |
Sorry, Ted, I thought there was a PowerCell 4, 6, 10, and 10SE earlier.
Heykay, I heard the PC 4 at the RMAF. It along with many other introduced products sounded excellent. |
Glory, what are "upper end platforms?" Are these Tranquility Bases? What does 3rd gen. quantum tunneling mean? My question remains, do TBs work on any rack? |
Bacardi, I think the new Teslaplex SE is better than the original, basically it is more of all the good characteristics of the original but more so. It is small enough investment that you can just try it.
I should say that you need to very tightly screw down the hot and neutral wires, as they are not wrap around. |
Mtseymour, in my summer home, I used the Galileo Univ. IC Cells and the Speaker Cells all with the Basik strings. Then I came back to Texas where I had Apex speaker wires and interconnects. I listened for a while without the Cells and then put them in. I was shocked at the improvement in the Apex. I did try the Cells with the Basiks on one source and found the sound was so far from what I had been getting with the Cells and Apex, that I put the Basiks in the bag.
I think the Apex alone are better than the Cells and Basiks, but did not really try this comparison. Remember that the Basiks are really just basic cables with no shielding. |
Flashunlock, I compared the standard MPCs versus the Galileos in many applications but not the Speaker Cells. It would shock me were the Galileos not better there also. |
Sgs, I have used them on four different speakers with no difficulty. |
Joeyboynj, I preferred the silver bullets but did not try them in many different locations. |
Ted, I am very happy to hear about the fuses. Are you starting with top quality fuses before using the Tesla coil? |
I should note that many fear patents only alert others as to an improvement and are easily worked around. I'm sure that patent attorneys would say that is because their services have not been used, adding of course great additional expense. I know this from my grandfather's, father's, and brother's experiences. |
Dave_b, thank you for your opinion. |
I once heard a very interesting talk by a John Camille on what it would take to achieve 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100 db of signal to noise. His conclusion was that 60 and even 70 were doable. That 80 was achievable with great difficulty and that 90 could be achieved only by impractical means such as encasing components in half inch thick steel with no holes anywhere! 100 db was, he said, God's country.
I have found that charged cables are a very great improvement at least in our modern world with all the EMI and RFI around. I suspect that were we to put everything into a Faraday cage, we would all hear an improvement and listening in a room that was a Faraday cage would be better yet.
Yes, Scott, I suspect better isolation and a grounding plane would make some difference. I think putting one on top the unit would also. But would it be very great? I don't know. Long ago I realized that isolation was important also, and I experienced modest improvements. Later I was shocked at the improvement given with the SR MIGs and even more by the StillPoint Ultra SSs and Ultra Fives. This was well beyond what I thought was possible. All that I will conclude now is, "try it!" |
