Suteetat, the Galileo Universal Speaker Cells come with one MPC double lead along with 5' extenders to hook them to the Cells at your speakers. I don't think you would want to do what you are thinking to do as the Cells go at the speakers and the wire charger attaching point is at the amp. I guess if you were to have monoblocks this would make sense.
I would imagine that there is some ultimate weight limit, but they should be good for heavy weight amps. I don't think they would be good with speaker or that SR intends them for this application. |
Yes, the MIGs slide too easily. Do with care. |
Scotttmac, no, I still have to have the PowerCell at the back of the shelf. This is an old Mana glass shelf rack. I really have not had any difficulty with the MIGs under it, except that the power cords pulled the PowerCell around slightly as the pcs all go to the left of the PowerCell. I still have not decided whether I prefer ambient or pin-point placement of the MIGs under the PowerCell.
Suteetat, with the probably 5' extension that comes with the Universal Cells and the 5' lead out of the MPC, you Universal Speaker Cells can be 10' from the MPC. My speakers are 10' apart, and I have no problem.
The Emitter is a great piece. All that I can really say is that given my experience, I would strongly suggest trying the MIGs in all locations. I must have 15 different isolation feet around here and have a similar experience as you. Don't jump too quickly when you hear the MIGs. They are very dramatic and do take some time to break in. I don't exactly understand why metal cups would break in, but they do. |
I got three more sets of MIGs in today. Since I had the amp on a StillPoints component stand, I had to put a Mana glass shelf on it to use the MIGs. I just listened without the MIGs to be certain that the shelf was not affecting the sound. It was not. Then I put the MIGs on in the pin-point configuration, as Ted had recommended.
It sounded very good with a higher image and more transparency on the sound stage. After about one hour the MIGs somehow had settle down and the sound was utterly transparent. I have never heard a trumpet with such realism or a drum with such percussive impact.
In my experience, you need to have all components and your PowerCell on MIGs to realize the full measure of their benefit. All seem to need to be in the ambient position except the amp.
MIGs are not easy to evaluate given their breakin, but given their price and performance, I suspect that they are a winner for SR.
We are going out to supper this evening, but I expect I will be up late tonight.
Oh, Ted advised that I get all of my Acoustic Revive quartz out of the room. I did so, but will gradually reintroduce it to see if it has the benefit it once had. |
As far as I know, no one has suggested that nirvana can be achieved only with all Synergistic Research products. No doubt in the area of cables and isolation, it no doubt is valuable for a company to remain in the light of conversations among audiophiles. But there is also no reason to dismiss the contributions of designers of products where warranted. You seem to be suggesting that such a strategy herds in audiophiles like sheep.
Have you any experience with any of these products, or is it your intention to sow doubts about any successful product? |
Bacardi, the body of the MPC would clear but the leads going to the cables would defeat the function of the MIGs as they would be tightly twisted to make the turn outward. |
Adwiegert, he thought that perhaps my system was over tweaked. I certainly have experimented with the AR, Harmonix, and Shun Mook tweaks in the past and no doubt found tweaks that complemented my system. So I tried it. I have yet to reintroduce any of the quartz.
So, Tvad, you do think that SR's inventiveness is a hoax. All that I can say is that since the first demonstration of the ARTs at the RMAF, I have been convinced by what I heard. There was a show special on the ARTs and I bought them on the spot. I also bought the PowerCell and Tesla plug on a friend's strong recommendation.
How about you? Do you pay full retail for everything? Why are you so suspicious of designers' works? I see that you got yourself into a tither over the Devialet D-Premier amp. I am sure you are a proponent for truth and justice in the world. |
Bacardi, i guess, like me, that others cannot answer your question. |
Adwiegert, I have been experimenting with MIGs under my amp also. What really shocked me in the SR demonstrations at CES was their using them on the StillPoints rack. I was surprised that there would be further improvement on that rack, but there certainly was.
My amp was already on a StillPoints component stand, so I could not use the MIGs on this four amp stand. I put a glass shelf from my Mana stands on the component stand and added MIGs in the pin point configuration. With the MIGs was somewhat better. I decided to just use Mana stands including the same glass shelf and with the MIGs on top. Initially I thought this was about the same. But I was forgetting about the time it takes for the MIGs to settle down.
The next morning the Mana stand with MIGs was clearly better, but I had to go back to the component stand and let the MIGs settle down. By that evening it was quite clear that the StillPoints component stand with MIGs was clearly better.
One final development. I had never tried the ambient setting of the MIGs. All other MIGs were also in ambient setting. In my system at least, the ambient setting on the StillPoints stand was best. I did briefly try it on the Mana stand, but the sound stage just was as involving and real.
I have no real idea why everything in ambient works best, but for the time being I just going to listen to music. |
Joeyboynj, doesn't a Precision with the special chassis mount come with the PowerCell 10SE? |
Ozzy, I don't have much certainty about this but were I you, I would try the amp first.
Tvad, still beating on the drum? |
Airportsyndome, as Tvad suggests, it probably should be Ted that answers, but I cannot imagine that these iron cups would be affected by a 130 pound amp. As I had a set standing around, I put one on the floor and stood on it. I hurt the ball of my foot but the MIG was unaffected. I weigh 190 pounds. |
Airportsyndrome, just try it. I would be more concerned with what is under the MIGs.
Scottmac62, my solution that works is to move PowerCell to the back of the shelf. I have found the PowerCell sounds better on the MIGs rather than on my Mana stand. It is in the area of sound stage realism and dynamics. |
Scottmac62, SR does have the QLS-6 and 9, which are quantum tunneled. These are quite long and come only with a short pigtail ac lead to the cable male plug. You will probably want a T2 to connect to the QLS. Remember that even the QLS-6 is quite long.
You also could turn the PowerCell upside down so the MPCs to project upwards. I wonder why the outlets are put in that way.
I don't know exactly what you mean about relaxation effect. Speed and transparency improves. You may want to experiment with whether you prefer the ambient or pin-point setting. I still have not resolved which I prefer under the amp. |
Scottmac62, my experience with most metal cones is a hardness also. Brass seems the exception, but I find there are other problems with brass. Everything soft, from wood to rubber, ruins the bass and transient attack. I have found only two exceptions to this-the StillPoints OEM feet and the SR MIGs. But I have never owned any Naim gear.
What is a Teddy cap?
I was kidding about turning the PowerCell upside down, but that would solve the problem as would putting the outlet in the PowerCell upside down. |
Ozzy, are they white at the top surface? |
Scottmac62, I cannot generalize at all, but my amp is on a glass Mana shelf on a StillPoints component stand. Until I got my MIGs, the amp had just been on the StillPoints stand. It took me a long time to decide that the pin-point pattern with the MIGs was better. This is with all other components with ambient pattern. Once the MIGs settled in and I had adjusted the H-Cat WTC to +8, I had an excellent, precise soundstage, deep bass, and accurate timbre for all instruments.
Personally, I don't like soft isolation materials. I certainly have heard very hard metal points glare and be very hard and brass ones sound very smeared and and lacking in dynamics.
All that I recommend is trial and error. |
Rilbr, I also have and still have many Acoustic Revive units. I had an AR RTP-6 when I bought my PowerCell 10SE. When it arrived I merely moved all six powercords from the RTP-6 and plugged them into the PowerCell. I should say that the RTP-6 had replaced my much more expensive IsoClean isolation transformer system. What I still remember was that the PowerCell was more open, dynamic, and had strikingly better bass. I should also say that the power cords were a mix of Isoclean and Cerious Technology and not SR.
I have never tried the Alan Maher unit.
My experience with AR quartz has been very confusing. I remember putting a QR-8 in the center of the wall behind my speakers and hearing it as I pressed it on the wall! All of this effect from a pencil eraser size piece of quartz. I had many other experiences were these pieces work quite well, but I have also had really bad experiences, such as putting one on a cd player drawer and totally killing all dynamics in the music and another putting one on my Murata Supertweeters with the same result. And I have had instances were these and the bigger AR quartz units did nothing, such as on the back of or on top some components.
All of this lead me to doing an interview with the Acoustic Revive owners which was to be published on Dagogo but has never appeared. I explored how many of their pieces came about and what the theory behind them was, if any. I don't think any of the inventors you enumerated were the originators of the use of quartz, not of the SR ARTs or MIGs.
I have not tried the Universal Interconnect Cells but Ted urged me to try the Universal Speaker Cells. As he said, once you hear them you will never stand any speaker wires without them. I would reverse your intended ordering. |
Joeybooynj, my impressions are based on my Acapella LaCompanellas and today I got my Tidal Contriva Discera SEs and they will get installed tomorrow. I really want to see what I get with Universal Cells on the Tidals, but I can tell you that I will be unhappy to remove them to listen without. The clarity with them means that you will never remove them. The realism of the sound stage is awesome and the bass is once again better defined.
When you first put them in you will be very impressed but with time and break in you will repeatedly think that something good has happened. I will be further break in and I am still hearing it some three weeks after getting them. |
Sts, I agree with Glory about the electrical benefits of Tesla but zapping myself!!!
Glory, I am not in the least surprised. I too was shocked. The obvious question is what would a really well made outlet sound like were it treated by SR. |
Barcardi, it has been a long time, but I think a week will probably do it. It will probably continue at a slower pace afterwards. I loves being up on MIGs. |
Bacardi, No and yes. It was a very nice improvement. |
I had a shocking experience today. I got a new SR T2 power cord for my new turntable. Of course it is charged and I had only one outlet available into which I plugged the T2 itself. I had a double lead MPC included and figured that I would remove two single lead MPC and install one double lead and thus have an opening for my new MPC.
I doing so I noticed that my preamp T2 was not connected nor was my phono stage. Under the preamp pc connection I found the charger lead. Once I had connected everything, I play vinyl and was in awe, but later listening to digital, I was equally amazed. All that was changed for digital was that the preamp pc was now charged.
There really is something to this charged cable system. |
Ted, I just did the now recommended halfway between the front of the speakers and your ears on the Magnetrons. I am amazed at what this did for the involvement in the soundstage and ease of the sound. The image is now higher as well. Why did I not do this before?? Nothing else was changed. |
Suteetat, I just learned that the plastic boxes of the Universal Interconnect Cells are intended to dangle off the shelf. where your preamp is. I had managed to keep them on the shelf, using a heavy Walker weight. I introduced my preamp to amp set first and have now had them on for three days. I was trying to figure out how I was going to put the source to preamp set, when I learned they could dangle, so I have not introduced them yet. SR even suggests that dangling is optimal.
I totally agree with what you hear and would add that bass is much more defined and profound. |
Suteetat,
I had assumed that they were all in common. I would call SR. |
Well, I have now put Universal Cells on my speaker wires about a month ago, on my preamp to amp ics about a week ago, and on my digital source to preamp ics, about two hours ago. I had deliberately installed them one by one although Mr. Denney had told me that the completion of the connections would be better than the sum of the individual Cell contributions. But stubborn I am.
I heard a major jump in clarity, ease, bass, top end extension and sweetness when I put on the Universal Speaker Cells. Mr. Denney had said that I would, and he was right.
When I the two sets of Universal Interconnects Cells arrived, I figured that the part for between the preamp and amp would improve all of my inputs, two digital (Mac Server and Exemplar/Oppo 83) and vinyl (Bergman Sindre and Ortofon A-90 cartridge). When I did figure out how to install it with in on the shelf of my rack behind the preamp, it was a nice improvement with all the characteristics listed above.
I have just installed the final set on my digital input. With them hanging down from the preamp. I listened immediately to be sure that all was well. It was. But as I sat there I heard improvements. Before taking off to do some business, I listened to the FIM K2 Sampler focusing on Touch, Pachelbel's Canon in D, and several others in between. Each cut sounded better
On returning I have relistened to many of these cuts and others. It would be hard to overstate what I hear. The clarity, sweetness, ease, bass, and ultimately realism and the overall sense of presence are just amazing. I already know I will need and additional set of source to preamp Universal Interconnect Cells. And these things are not inexpensive, but I may be avoiding a much more expensive amp and preamp. I don't want to think too much about how these would make my system sound with such expensive electronics. My point is merely to suggest the Universal Cells may represent the contributions of much more expensive electronics.
Suteetat, I put the first set into the dangling position and heard no change. |
Joeyboynj, yep. The ic Cells will do the same.
I am presently using all of my Cells with Basik cabling in a small room at my summer home. Even with just the Basik, the sound is quite good. |
Suteetat, I too have added both the MIGs and the Universal Cells. I tried them one at a time only to realize, as I have said, that the final one makes all the difference. Like you I find they get better with time, but mine have not settled down yet. What really takes me aback is the precision of the sound stage, especially on live recordings. One can clearly hear the separation of the first and second violins as well as what is going on deep in the sound stage.
The MIGs are an unexpected benefit, again as I have said. I did not think they could work. But work they do! I have found the placement of the feet under components greatly affects their performance. And for some unknown reason, they break in! Moving them around doesn't undo this but switching from ambient to pin-point does. I still am using pin-point only under my amp.
Ozzy, of course the question arrises-do the SR Universal Cells and the Audio Prism Ground Controls complement each other? |
Bacardi, much depends on what you hear with all ground loops removed from your system. On my H-Cat equipment putting them on all grounded units except the line stage makes a great difference. YMMV.
Tvad, I don't know what they are charging. |
Fplanner, the MIGs are curious-they break in. Also positioning has a big impact on their sound. I have no experience using them between components, however.
You are quite right about going slowly. I changed speakers, a preamp, and added the SR Universal Cells at the same time. I love my new sound but am having trouble understanding what is mainly important. |
I think this is another question you should ask directly to SR. I wouldn't think it would work. |
Milimetr, the cable leads to the speaker binding posts are 36" long and the connections are about 4" off the floor. My stands are 28" tall and the connections on my LSA1 Statements are at the bottom of the speakers. I don't think you or I will have any problem with the Universal Speaker Cell wires.
The Cells also come with a very long connection wire allowing one Galileo MPC to be used to both speakers. The Apex speaker wire's charger connection is at the amp end. The Apex speaker wires are thick and stiff so they might twist the Universal Cells around, but you can shape them to not have them do so.
I strongly recommend both the Galileo Universal Speaker Cells as well as the Galileo Universal Interconnect Cells. |
Suteetat, maybe available in 3 standard lengths, but I didn't specify and got 36 inchers. The extension leads for the MPS on the Speaker Cells is standard. |
Milimetr, I have tried the Interconnect Cells with Townshend interconnects. I would definitely say that the Cells improved the Townshends, but the SR Apexs are definitely better. However, I have a Summer home and am going to use the Townshends there with the Cells. |
I understand it is the same technology as the PowerCell and as I understand that charged plates are the key. |
Tvad, these are very strange devices as it is hard to say why there is a breakin, but there certainly is. I have found that you can gently move them beneath components with little needed settling in. But if they are jared, they may take several hours. There placement under a component makes are great difference.
What I have recently noticed is that my initial preference for most being in the Ambience placement is now reversed. I have switched the phono and dac to pin-point placement.
I just had a visitor who was just incredulous at the sound. He said how is this done, adding that he has heard many expensive systems. He was here on other business and needed to get back to Dallas, so I did no a/b comparisons. As he left he was still babbling.
Ted, I suspect trial and error are the only way to see what works. True? |
I have now had several people who had previously heard my present system who have listened in the last several days after I merely moved the Magnetrons on the side back to half-way between the front of my Tidal speakers and my ears. Both asked what I had changed. Neither would believe that it was merely the location of the Magnetrons. I was unwilling to move them back, but for one guy I remove the bowls. He was shocked at the loss of realism. |
Adwiegert, there will soon be a recommendation of using four new Magnetrons, all on the front or speaker wall, and one new Bass Station for your rear wall. The new sidewall, Magnetron position does wonders.
All that I can say about MIG positioning is to try alternatives. If you move them under a component, do so smoothly. These things don't like to be moved. I have found there to be little to predict what will be best other than to have about the same load on each foot. After they are broken in (yeah, I know that sounds like nonsense for footers, but it is true), I prefer the "pin-point" position. I again tried putting three under my Mac Powerbook that I use as a server. I am again shocked at how effective these feet are. |
Adwiegert, my Mac laptop sits on two MIGs in the back and one in the front, all in the Pin-Point configuration. All of this is on top my StillPoints rack, which of course means I am gilding the lilly. Nevertheless, it makes a big difference. Last night it was not sounding as good as it had been. I noticed that the screen of the computer was against the crossbar of the rack. When I closed it just enough to clear the crossbar, all was well again. |
I think the initial placement is as it was, except that the Vibratron is more open in its placement, requiring more experimentation. And this entails a stand for it, like SR uses at shows. The side wall Magnetrons go half way between your ears and the face of your speakers. The Gravatron is place as in the past, high on the back wall.
The four new Magnatrons go on the speaker wall between 3 and 6 inches from the side wall, with one pair at the same level as the Vibratron. The second set go above the first somewhere about 2.5 feet up.
The additional bass station goes somewhere on the back wall in a corner. Here experimentation is most important.
These instructions when finalized will appear on their webpage. I had asked about treating a small 10 x 13 x 8 foot room, but hold for all rooms at least up to a very large size. |
Glory, yes this all would be quite expensive. I am going to try adding two Basik art systems after I use them in my small listening room in a summer home.
I am assured that a 10 x 13 x 8 foot room can be made to sound much larger. I will report on this later when I get this all settled down. Then in the Fall when I return to my home in Texas, I will bring both sets back with me and use them to complement my ART system here.
Were it not for hearing the ART system demonstrated, I probably would not have bought this system and greatly benefited from it.
I feel largely the same about the MIGs. Both are implausible but have great benefits. And the MIGs are cheap. I still am perplexed as to how and why the MIGs work, but nevertheless enjoy their benefit. |
Adwiegert, that is precisely what I will be doing in New Mexico. I doubt if it will be the equal of the full-blown ART system. I have never heard the Basik system. |
They are just Levitron cheaters that have been Quantum Tunneled. I had 7 of them done for my system, which requires that all but the line stage be ungrounded. They are far superior to the standard Levitron cheater. I tried a comparison of treated and untreated in all positions. One note tells you the difference. |
Tvad and Splaskin, I have had them for well over a year. I don't even recall whether I sent Levitrons to them are they provided them. When I found a solution to my need for better cheaters I acted. I had no idea that they were going to actually do these although I told others with H-Cat about them. |
I'm sorry if the truth upsets you but don't understand why. At any rate live with it.
How did the MIGs sound? |
Tvad, I don't really understand why you post here. Can you please explain it?
Again, it was long ago and I could not find cheaters that didn't corrupt the sound. I may have originated the idea of Tunneling the Levitrons, but these cheater were a godsend.
Again why have you posted nothing on your experiences with the MIGs? Why have you yet to visit SR as you are so nearby and were invited? I get tired of your conspiratorial tone of voice always and really why. |
Tvad, how is it that I bring it on myself? Why are you so interested in the price of the SR cheaters? Is forgetting how this all developed a sin? It all developed out of my asking Ted if he knew of any good cheaters. Can you not believe that?
Do you own any SR products that you inveigle yourself in discussions of products which don't interest you, especially, as you don't seem to learn anything from others' experiences? |
Bacardi, I have no experience with subwoofers and pcs or ics. I have bought a used Zu Method and have it in place but have yet to use it. |
Bacardi,
Understand that the Ground Lifter just does that. You could do the same thing by cutting of the ground pin on the plug going into the wall. I don't really know whether lifting the ground on the PowerCell would adversely affect it, however.
But I do know that most systems sound better with only one component grounded to the ac. This is especially true of the H-Cat components and is why I was so happy to get a good sounding and easy way to lift all grounds on grounded components in my system except the line stage. If anyone is happy using the Levtron cheater in its standard, $.89, form, I am happy for them. |
