Time to resurrect this thread.
It’s hard to believe that we now have a Sluggo that is better than the mirror-finish polished copper Sluggos, all of which I hand polished myself and have exclusively been using in my components almost this whole time.
More thoughts to come soon about the Graphene Sluggos...
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@ozzy What makes you think I'm "getting carried away"?
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@wig Thank you sir! I do feel that my closing comments are true.
Looking forward to hearing from other who are using them.
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@thyname Always nice to hear about people enjoying my writings. I’m a financial markets trader and investor, so identifying risk/reward, knowing one’s own tolerance for risk, and making moves is the one thing I do all the time. I've done well being an early adopter. Seeing some detailed descriptions about what testing went on during the R&D phase would certainly add to credence regarding reliability. In lieu of this, so far anyway, my decision was therefore based on general evaluation of the likelihood that everything that’s been claimed is actually true, including thoroughness of testing. In other words, going with my gut.
Time will tell.
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No-risk return policies are pretty great though 🌞
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Although my use of "headroom" to describe the sound quality still seems apt to me, I also think it might be something closer to "legroom" that needs a mention here as a way of looking at the mechanics behind this. Haha! Legroom 🙂. I mean like all of the inner electronic parts being lifted up off the floor from an operational energy deficiency vs having been relieved from pressing up against a metaphorical ceiling in a state of energy excess, where clipping and distortion occur. In either extreme state, there's distortion. I can't say with any technical certainty about any of this because I'm not an electricity expert, and that's fine with me. It's just the audiophile buzzwords that count, right? 😁
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@tksteingraber Generally, I would say amp first. A little hard to say what order would come next, but I’d guess DAC, then streamer, then preamp. But my preamp has a patented power supply technology that runs on only a tiny fraction of the power that typically preamps do, so I think it’s performance was less restricted by fuses to begin with. So maybe preamp before streamer if it has a higher rated fuse amperage?
@gnu I only posted the review here. If I were running that website, I would place the product description above a long review like this on the product webpage. Just my opinion though.
@audioman58 I can only share that the user manual has a warning not to use the slugs+device in place of an amplifier’s DC rail fuse if there is one. Regarding oxidation, after polishing my copper Sluggos with a gold jewelry polishing cloth they sound different, more neutral and less warm, and at the time it seemed like an little increase in detail retrieval too, but you can’t go back to A/B. I wouldn’t mind having backups of each slug which haven’t been polished because I’m a tonehead. The sound will probably very slowly shift to warmth as oxidation occurs.
@verafiaudio Good morning, you’ve got my attention with those new Sluggos 👀
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@verafiaudio Mark, I’ve got a question. It’s been awhile since I’ve read all of your comments on other forums, so I’d like to clear something up about what I recall less than perfectly.
If, for some unexpected reason, the active parts on the circuit board fail (microcomputer, whatever else could potentially fail due to defect or something) while it’s in use, can charge still flow through it? Or is the relay method one that is passively closed and blocking charge from flowing if the active electronics were to malfunction?
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@verafiaudio I really appreciate all three of those responses. Your answer to my question is brief, but that statement is what I was looking for. I admit that I don’t understand much about relays and the related terms.
I just found that I actually have a spare pair of unpolished large copper Sluggos for my amp, so I’m going to see how the system sounds with those in place of the polished ones that are in the amp now. A normal type of daily activity for me 🙂
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I didn’t have any communication with Walter at Underwood HiFi, but nothing about him copy/pasting my review bothers me. I don’t feel cheated, stolen from, or anything like that. He’s selling this device as a type of partner with Mark of Vera-Fi Audio. I’ll allow it, no worries. Linking here was a good move.
I did speak with Mark on the phone a couple times while I was trying to form a buying decision because I had questions about the two different fuse rating in my DAC, etc. He was super helpful and I got an honest and cordial vibe.
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Switching to unpolished copper slugs in the amp and keeping polished copper slugs in the other three components is really nice. Gonna keep it this way. A little more body, warmth, and low end, and slightly less relative energy in the top end, as expected. There's still the same presence of subtle ambient cues and reverb that I was checking for. Very cool.
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@vandy357 That all sounds right, but I can't be totally sure about your amp fuses. You can call Mark at the phone number on the website URL I gave at the bottom of the review and he'll get you sorted out.
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You can just use stubby little Nema 5-15p to IEC C13 adapters to connect the fuse box to an outlet. They sound good in my application. You may or may not need some extra support at the outlet with this method because of the leverage the weight of the device will put on the adapter’s connecting spades. Vera-Fi Audio also makes 1-ft mini-cables you can try using.
It’s a $395 upgrade for each component. You’ll get enough Sluggos included for the fuses that are replaced. My DAC and amp both use two Sluggos. I wasn’t charged extra for those.
@vandy357 given Wig’s post just above yours, I’m not sure what your concern about the amp is. Just leave the DC rail fuses where they are.
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My pleasure to help, guys.
For anyone that is using SDFBs, I ended up switching back to the polished copper Sluggos in my amp after a brief time with the unpolished ones. It became apparent to me that, actually there is some small loss of fidelity due to the oxidation-based corrosion on the unpolished Sluggos. My recommendation is to go for polished Sluggos with any SDFB you have installed.
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Nice!
Got slugs? *inserts a photoshopped photo of an attractive celebrity with a half-eaten slimy slug on her upper lip*
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LOL! Welcome to the slug club 😁
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@lalitk They are basically the same adapters that I mentioned briefly in the review. I'm currently using one on all four of my SDFBs.
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@tweak1 It could actually be a good thing, meaning a more capable top end from upgrading, but elusive room acoustical properties can give the extra high frequency energy an unnatural or unpleasant ring. When I went through several sound system improvements back to back, I ended up with a hot top end, but there was an easy way to balance it. I had three SR wide angle HFT units sitting in my tubes and accessories storage area, and I put them on the front wall high up, about 9 feet from the floor. One is in the center and the two nearer the side walls are about 9 feet from each other, and at the same height as the center one.
Just this one thing smoothed out my top end by effectively neutralizing high frequency reflections in the top half of the room. The product is sold with a 30-day return policy, so worth a try.
At this point I'm like an self taught expert on how to use them and another acoustic treatment product called Holostages 😁 Maybe that sounds pretentious, but I do have a desire to teach others about what I've learned and discovered.
Even though I choose to have a 77" TV on top of my audio rack, which is centered in front of the listening position, I have been able to achieve a nicely holographic three dimensionality using these techniques in a specific arrangement around the room. The soundstage depth is now only suffering a little bit, whereas without them, the depth is pretty squashed, even though height and width are fine. I'm thinking of writing a whole, long piece on what I've learned about these methods... but the work involved and the inevitable counterforce from skeptics of non-axiomatic methodologies are a little off-putting to think of!
You'll get it resolved. There's always a way!
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@tweak1 You’re welcome, and if you end up going this route I’m open to help with getting it right. I don’t want to go into details here, but there’s certainly technique involved in tuning it, taking into account room size and shape, etc. The wide angle HFTs can pretty easily be overdone, so for a small room the regular HFTs could work better.
Of course, there’s traditional acoustic treatments for the upper part of the room, but they are typically more expensive, much more difficult to install, and not something you can move a few inches this way or that way, again and again, to get it to sound just right.
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Well, it's an extremely simple test that anyone can do themselves. Unempirical speculation isn't really necessary.
Step 1) Take out your Sluggos, handle them with your fingers getting sebum on them, then put them back in, and listen.
Step 2) Take them back out, clean them with an extra fine cotton cloth, then put them back in without touching them, and listen.
Quandary solved.
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@thyname, @wig and other SDFB users: I found out today that, whether or not you’ve polished your Sluggos, wiping them and handling them only with a clean, fine fiber cotton cloth when inserting them into your fuse holder is very important for high frequency response. Touch them with your oily fingers after cleaning or polishing and your finer detail resolution and HF response will degrade. Handle only with your cloth and listen for better resolution! Cool, huh?
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The best is full polishing with both sides of a Connoisseurs gold jewelry polishing cloth, then clean with 99% isopropyl alcohol using a microfiber cloth, then insert into fuse holder, all without skin touching it. Maybe wear nitrile gloves, or just handle with the cloth. Crazy good details. I can hear sounds of the wiping of fingers along guitar strings. Incredible.
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@thyname I got the polishing cloth idea from someone else's comment on a different internet discussion forum. But once people start trying the whole process I just described, I'm sure it will become the standard. Order the cloth and find the alcohol; I'd love to hear your report. Yes, I'm using Sluggos in a number of different components, but I'm certain you'll like the change just in your single component.
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@recklesskelly I totally respect your position on fire safety. Everyone should have a capable and charged fire extinguisher.
@thyname Looking forward to your untreated copper to treated copper comparison. Personally, I never ended up sticking with any of the brass slugs, whether treated or not.
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@verafiaudio Generous policy! Love it. I have a new preamp in the works, so this is good to know.
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@lalitk I do understand your issue. I might be able to help figure it out. Of the six outlets in your Mr. T power conditioner, are there any which are unused? Which locations?
Also, if you can tell me the distance horizontally between the centers of the three duplexes, that would help.
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@lalitk Actually, on second thought, I don’t think any of that matters. Regardless of which outlets are used, I think that you can use short NEMA 5-15p to IEC C13 adapters and expect to fit at least three SDFBs in a "V" shaped orientation, where there are two at the same height on the outer duplexes and one on the opposite vertical position in the middle duplex. Potentially, you could use four with all of them being on the outer duplexes, but they would be pressing against each other angled a little unnaturally.
The reason why the V shaped pattern will work is because the adapters' length will position the SDFBs just past the AC plug bodies of your other cables.
Either way, you’ll still have the joy of your Takumi PCs.
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None of this undergrad academic credential jockeying has anything to do with the actual sonics of replacing fuses with slugs by using SDFB.
Purely based on the same stubborn pattern repeating without end, it appears Jason was Bourne to be an internet troll feeling desperate to be perceived as the superior intellect, regardless of experience. Basic business reality and profit margin doesn't seem to click either.
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The whole argument is like claiming someone needs to be a chemist to know what water tastes like.
Any child can see the fallacy.
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I've used 4N silver slugs and the sound just wasn't for me. Pretty much what I expected though, as I've never found all silver conductors in power cables or in signal cables with the analog section of my chain to have a desirable tonality. I do use all UPOCC silver conductors in my two Ethernet cables, though, and absolutely love them.
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Good to hear you're enjoying your Fuse Boxes, either way. I'm just really picky about my own preferences with tonality.
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Whether it's new and improved slugs or next level Fuse Boxes, I'm excited for both. Only improvements to come from this point on.
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Less snide and disparaging remarks here would be a huge upgrade to the discussion, much like SDFBs are to sound quality.
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@lalitk
Speaking of improvements, I hope next revision of SDFB eliminates the need for pigtail PC or inexpensive male to female plug
I think you'd be very surprised how transparent the extra short AC adapters we are using are. To me, they are sonically undetectable. And any remaining tiny bit of coloration or electrical resistance coming from the wiring in the Fuse Boxes is overwhelmingly outdone by the sonic improvements from swapping fuses for slugs.
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Your very strong belief has been noted once again.
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@kennyc Thanks for the comment. I’ve added two more and now have six units. Rythmik subwoofers adore these things. I’ve never seen any reports of users saying something like "no thanks, didn’t hear a difference". In my system, every one of the six was an eye popping improvement.
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@johnnycopy I have two Rythmik subs, both with SDFBs and the power cables that connects them to the subs are Vogue Audio 11ga UPOCC silver, which I changed out the connectors on. The SDFB’s have the largest impact on power and speed, but I think this particular power cable is the best you can get for a subwoofer. The large guage UPOCC silver has the deepest sub-bass and most linear bass response for these subs of anything I’ve tried. I’m not a fan of them in most applications, but for subs they are the cherry on top.
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@bsavage Thanks for sharing. Your SDFB journey was very similar to mine, and I think you are describing very similar qualitative changes as I tried to articulate in the original post, just with a few different words. I hope my post inspired your journey that turned out so well in the end.
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Small update -- I’m now waiting on a couple more graphene sluggos to arrive and burn in a bit before doing final, focused testing between the G-slugs (😁) and the mirror-polished copper slugs, as there’s some subtle differences that I’d like to define better in my mind before trying to language it here.
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Final update: I went with a Member Review for graphene sluggos HERE
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That is very accusatory, to say the least. This isn’t a conspiracy theory website, it’s for discussing home audio products. Save your keystrokes for something else -- perhaps consider focusing on a benevolent intention.
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I read the article you guys are referring to some time in early 2023, so I’m aware. It has nothing to do with me or what audio products I discuss here. The above comment that my posts here "amounted to nothing but advertisements praising his products" and the "read between the lines" comment are twisting facts to vaguely accuse me of some sort of malfeasance. My historical contributions to audio related discussions here vary greatly, including some criticisms of VeraFi Audio products. I don’t like being wrongly accused, so I’m defending myself, not "deflecting".
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@thecarpathian Thanks for walking back a little there.
The learning about and practice of forgiveness is one of the most profoundly important things in human life, at least that’s how I see it. There is also the intention to understand rather than to judge, without being naive and taken advantage of.
Many people on this discussion forum have been aware of Mark’s somewhat distant past for a significant length of time, and yet they have still given him business and high praise regarding their actual experiences in interacting and transacting with him. I’m one of those people, even though I don’t think I’ve bluntly stated it online... until now.
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@grannyring
You can build four awesome, top tier 9.75 inch power cables with 1 meter of Furutech DPS 4.1 cable, and four pairs of Viborg VM503R/VM503F connectors. They will total to about $132 each. Or build three at 13 inches long for a little more. (See vh audio and AliExpress)
Or you can use the cheaper Furutech FP-TCS31 cable and they will be $100 each.
Lastly, you can use cheap IEC C13 to NEMA 5-15P to IEC adapters (in the US), and they are only $6 each and sound good because the length is so short, but they will bend under the weight over time.
Sound quality is DPS 4.1 > FP-TCS31 > C13-to-5-15P adapter, but the sound quality differences are somewhat less impactful in the position upstream from the SDFB than whatever power cable is used downstream from the SDFB, and which connects directly to your component.
I would recommend the DPS build route for people like you, and the adapter route for people on a budget.
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