Suspended vs. non suspended turntable


Hello all,

I am ready to begin my foray into the world of vinyl (again). Looking at the turntables out there, it seems as if there are two types - those with suspension, and those without. What are the advantages and disadvantages of each?

Keith
amfibius

Showing 8 responses by sirspeedy

Actually,you DO want to be concerned about the "type" of table you chose.
I would strongly suggest you go on the "Basis" website,and read the "white Papers".These are very well written pieces,based on good science,and logic!Also,a good means of educating one,about the advantages of a suspension on a turntable,as well as vacuum clamping(if that interests you).
At that point you can better make an educated decision,which type to chose.
Good luck.
The "only" reason I stated that one should read the Basis White papers,is because the arguements made(there)seem logical,and make the most sense to me.Of course each person makes their own buying decision.The more educational ammunition,the better.
To me,it is not an issue of what seems correct on paper. If one is so critical as to be concerned about the minutiae of cartridge/arm issues,then being careful about what table topology you buy,is a good thing.
As to the why it "may" be a big deal.....just some thoughts,which a new table purchaser should "think about",before making a decision....From the arguements made in favor of an "effective" suspension system,on a table,the subtle sounds of "any movement" can be picked up by the finest cartridges/systems.This is indicated by not only footfalls,but the vibrations of many "real world" occurrences.A truck,airplane,or any vibration that can cause the slightest impact on the "super sensitive" vinyl replay system(in a normal home,even the general outside world's "sound" is vibrational....listen at night,not to music, and it becomes obvious...things are just much less noise/vibration sounding)....Having a concrete floor(I do too)is still not totally effective for stopping these deliterious effects.My friend has a concrete floor,but can pick up the vibrations of his elevators,and other causes in his apartment building.Noisey neighbors,furnature moving,someone wheeling in groceries etc are all present in an apartment building.If you claim to have a fine system,you are picking up the effects,whether you like it or not!One family homes are not immune either(I have one and know this to be the case).
I had a non-suspended table,on a specialty wall shelf,drilled into two by six inch beams,in my wall(dedicated room).Fine,but there was still the subtle vibrational energy coming in when a large vehicle,or plane passed by.Even the effects of my room's exhaust fan(on the roof)caused some degree of vibration,which I felt(slightly).Washing machines,vacuuming(don't laugh),furnace kicking in etc....you may not be aware of the subtle impact,but it IS there!
Of course I am not saying "these" can easily be detected,during LP play,but It makes "sense" to me,that if the vinyl set-up is SO good,to have expensive cartridges/arms/electronics etc,and "is in a quiet room",then there IS going to be a difference in the perceived sound,based on the "better" table topology!...
I say,try to read/educate oneself to the topic,consider your own system/room,and make the decision which is most logical to you!
Somehow,I cannot believe a table like the Walker would sound anywhere as good as it does(though I am sure it still would be acceptable)if the "air suspension" was omitted.
Personally,I could easily live with,and love many non suspended designs,but the suspended arguement makes the most sense to me...in a very revealing system.Some set-ups are more revealing than others,so this might not be a "big deal" to some.....I agree!
Best.
"I'm sure if you take away any part that was designed in there will be a change"....Could not agree more!
One of my good friends,who is a very experienced hobbyist,alweays claims(humorously)that even if one was to "put a banana" on the top of a speaker,it's presence would be heard!-:).....I love that statement-:)
The only "easy answer" to this hobby is...."it's fun"!
Best.
"Getting pace or prat or liveness by moving the table beneath the cartridge is adding something to the music that's not in the grooves".....If this is actually true,then the particular table mfgr who designs "that" particular suspension deserves very few sales of that product!!!...Just like some arms,or cartridges,or any device has inferior or superior implementations,so DO the suspension designs as well.I doubt there is much movement in the Walker,Continuum,Rockport,the top Basis designs(Debut/Work of Art series),Blue Peal,Avid Acutus,SME's etc!All suspended designs!!ALL considered world class!!I cannot for the life of me,see how there is any platter/plinth movement beneath a cartridge,on "these" products,as a LP is spinning(has anyone actually measured this,or is it conjecture,and assumption?).....I've tried the cone route,and defeated the "superb" suspension of my SOTA COSMOS!The difference in performance(especially in bass power)was not even close.This was using a custom wall shelf,riveted into three 2x6 beams.We then tried the VPI TNT without a suspension,on a massive 300 lb floor stand,and compared it to an added air suspension.After that,we tried my friend's SOTA COSMOS,on an SRA rack,mounted on a concrete floor,with a Symposium Ultra platform beneath.Defeated the suspension,then with the "NEW" suspension employed on the series IV.Not close!!Once again,the suspension design was FAR superior in virtually every meaningful way!Each individual consumer should make their own choice,and really I have no stock holdings in any design,so my thoughts are simply just that...my personnal experience,along with some other friends.Whatever suits you is fine.-:)
This is not to say that a non suspended design cannot sound great(anyone wanting to give me a Kuzma REF can E-mail me,and hear my shouts of joy),but some analyticl thinkers may be overanalyzing the subject a bit. -:)
Best
The main reason why I enjoy Audiogon forum life(now that I realize there are "real" people on the other end of my computer screen)is it allows us to all give our own thoughts on every subject(obviously)....I am not about to be too stubborn to consider other viable thoughts,which surely have come up with this subject.
I might have my own way of viewing things "audio",but if I were too closed minded,I'd never have the kind of quality music now playing,in my room.
Most of "you" have definitely helped me realize there are legitimate alternate views,on this subject,as well as many other matters regarding "getting music" to sound like we'd like it to,in our homes.
Thanks for keeping me grounded!...Always much to ponder/think through,with my somewhat overly analytical "ways".
Best to all.
Keith,in all honesty I'd seek out a good dealer,who might be so inclined to give you a trial product.That is the ONLY way,other than conjecture,to evaluate something that might suit your tastes!
I am lucky to have a close friend who has an almost identical system as me.Fortunately(for me),he is obsessed with spending money on this hobby,so he is used as the proverbial guinea pig.-:)
You have a better shot with a "reliable dealer"!
Keith,two of my experienced friends approach the hobby differently.I was just at both of their homes this week........
Friend #1 spends,makes mistakes,than sells what he does not like.He has a great set-up,now,but has had errors along the way.He is almost in a constant state of considering new changes.
My friend Sid,has a different take,which he adheres to ADAMANTLY...he purchases nothing new,until he compares it to his current set-up!He spends the rest of his money on new music,for his incomparable collection.
Who do you think has spent the most time,and wasted more money on equipment?
More importantly,you don't have to guess who has a more "involving" set-up!!
Yes,I do understand your plight,but with big time expenses,there is always a seller willing to "be a good dealer"!!
Good luck.