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Suspended Basis vs Nonsuspended Teres

Hi:

I am preparing to upgrade my TT and I am seriously considering a Top-of -the-Line Teres with Basis Vector Arm or Graham 2.2 and Shelter 901 combination. In researching the arm, I had some e-mail exchanges with AJ Conti from Basis.

It was kind of him to correspond with me and I am appreciative of his input. Of course, he endorses his own TT but he was very negative about others except SME. I have excerpted a couple sections to illustrate. Is he correct that nonsuspended tables are inferior unless you purchase a Vibraplane platform. And, do we believe that the Basis has 50 dB less environmental noise infiltration than other TT. My lack of hands-on experience with these TT and their strengths and weaknesses leave me wondering. I have no doubt about the quality of Basis TT but I am seeking input from several sources I trust. Audiogon is one.
see comments below.

"The 2001 with Vector is clearly superior to the SME 20 with any arm. The only turntables I would consider, if I were buying out on the market and knew all I know about all of them, would be Basis Debut series, 2500 series, 2001, SME 30, SME 20.

"Once you own the Vector, after you place it on something else, you will wish you bought Basis, especially after you see one, see the platter turn but have it look so stationary you don't think it's turning, such is its rotational accuracy, and they you note the platter on yours
going up and down as it rotates..........or after you realize that even the 2001 is TOTALLY isolated from all room vibrations, including its own motor, while any Teres, VPI, Nottingham have 50 DECIBELS MORE outside world garbage
getting in than the 2001. Yes, 50 decibels. ... That means NOISE, every unisolated turntable, including our own 1400 and 2000 (only offered to get in a lower price range where
all of the competition is unisolated) are full of noise, changing the tonality, losing and obscuring detail which you can never get back. It is pathetic and ridiculous to offer the $3k plus turntables that are offered without isolation, pretending cones and mulitple layers of actylic and other materials can "isolate" (proving the incompetance or dishonesty) of the designer or sales guy at the company. I love what Teres said to one of their dealers: "We can't
compete with the expertise, fixturing, tooling that Basis has, but here's why we are great-we listen to each one and throw away an entire unit if it does not sound good." What a great statement of "We don't know what we're doing, but
we try hard to not let poor product out the door."

cardiackid

Showing 5 responses by cardiackid

cardiackid OP
63 posts
 
Thank you all for your input.

Esoxhntr,I have only excerpted part of an e-mail exchange with AJ not a phone conversation. Also, I clearly understand where AJ is coming from and I appreciate and respect his honest opinion. He should be supportive of his own equipment and other equipment he admires. The issue is not AJ for me but whether a nonsuspended table like a Teres is the best decision for me. AJ has provided one perspective.

I am simply trying to get a cross-section of opinion on these TT options in order to make the best decision. I think the Teres has strong supporters but it may benefit from the use of an isolation platform, such as the vibraplane. Does it require it for top performance?

I think the sound of the Teres wooden platter and base maybe acoustically preferable to acrylic. I will need to listen for that answer. I am not sure if the engineering of the Teres platter and bearing and speed control ae not the equal of the Basis.

The last issue is whether the best engineered table is the best sounding table. Where does the art factor fall in to play.

And certainly there are other well engineered table to consider beyond Basis and SME.

Thanks again for the discussion. It helps me to dig out the issues so that I can make a better personal decision.
cardiackid OP
63 posts
 
Thank you very much Lake513, very helpful. I will e-mail you to expand the discussion briefly later on tonight. Thank you again.
cardiackid OP
63 posts
 
Thank you everyone. I had not given the suspended vs nonsuspended issue enough thought until recently. I will be making a decision soon and I will factor in all of the info provided. Thanks.

Goyescas: I read the vinyl asylum regularly but I have had trouble getting my posts to go through in the past. I am sure it reflects some ineptness on my part. However, I am more of a reader and buyer than a poster to either Audiogon or Audioasylum. I guess I feel I have more to learn than I have good info to share. I am learning from you all and that is fun.

One fact is sure, this suspension issue is very complicated and challenging to many of us. I will be taking an open minded approach to the problem and giving my ears the benefit of the doubt.
cardiackid OP
63 posts
 
Hi Dougdeacon:

Thanks for the input.

You are absolutely right about listening to different systems. For instance, I have listened to an SME 20/ SMEV/transfiguration set up several times and enjoyed it every time. But, the speakers were large Dunlavys with BAT electronics, all first class. I have Avantgarde/Cary 300B system. So how much can I infer about the TT relative to my system - in particular how dynamic is the sound, how defined is the lower bass, how sweet is the midrange, how spacious and transparent is the imaging. It is really a guess IMO.

I wish there were a centralized venue where one could pay someone to set-up and discuss different components for A-B comparisons. I hate to bother dealers because their time is valuable and I may not end up being a customer for whatever reason. Also, most are trying to sell home theater and time spent with me may be interesting but not profitable. They are in business to make sales.

After all of this discussion, I will post my final decision in Feb sometime. I expect to make the purchases early that month. I am sure, regardless of the decision, there will be disagreement. But, a little controversy makes life interesting.

Thanks again for the help.
cardiackid OP
63 posts
 
In general, I agree with Aroc. In my thinking, I concluded the table must be of very high quality first to allow the full benefits of the cartridge to be appreciated. The cartridge selection then must be selected to match the arm-table combination and the phono preamp. I already upgraded the phono preamp to a Steelhead in my particular case.

Gjpgamer, describes an ideal situation not available to me in St. Louis. We seem to have a dearth of High-End Dealers involved heavily in analog. The retailers must market primarilly home theater to survive here. Therefore, the option of trying several in my home is unlikely unless I ship one in with a 90% assurance to buy. It would not be fair to the dealer to do otherwise IMO.

I have also concluded from this other threads, that the requirements of the TT stand will be related to the TT choice. Trying out an unsuspended TT on my Atlantis equipment rack may not be appropriate. I plan to optimize a dedicated TT stand to the TT I select.

Analog reproduction is truly a multivariate problem with many elements that must work together. However, the effort is well rewarded. I have enjoyed the input and look forward to making a choice and enjoying the music.

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