Surround Processor / Pre Amp / 3D Sound Field


A couple of years ago I purchased a Marantz AV8801 surround preamp but I was never happy with it. It hasn’t gotten much use and since then I haven't put too much effort and attention into surround sound. Sure it was able to decode the latest formats but the sound field was boring, lacked impact, and the 3D sound field it created was mediocre. I remember back in the days I had a Sony STR-DE series of receivers that had an enhance/exaggerate function where for each sound field, one could increase the effect of the field. This created excitement while watching movies and a huge dynamic range. I also remember even before this receiver when Dolby Digital was first coming out Yamaha had an external DD decoder DDP-1 to add this capability to their receivers. Well I still remember that the DDP-1 had the best 3D sound field that I have experienced. All 5 speakers were working with each other to precisely place the sound where it belongs and was simply not just noise coming from multiple speakers. It sounded truly 3Dish and the sound moved around in open air. I really miss those days.

I am not getting this with my Marantz in a 5.1 setup (I have no desire to goto Atmos at this time). There is nothing to enhance the 3D field to exaggerate the effect. It has been calibrated multiple times with it’s built in Audyssey. I wanted to know if there were any current surround preamps / processors that would provide a better 3d field or have this as a feature to adjust the effect?
audioman2015

Showing 4 responses by bo1972

I have done thousands of tests in almost 18 years of time. I am  working in sound&vision for almost 19 years of time. I am a born perfectionist and always compare and test to create and find the best possible. 2nd best and good in my world is for losers.

I had many expensive sysems over the last 18 years of time. 3 dimensional sound or even better to say 4-dimensional sound has become my trademark.

I stopped selling 2-dimensional sound based on the the fact then people all directly choose for 3-dimensional sound.

I did run an andio shop for about 2 years of time. I had all the freedom to choose the brands and products I wanted to sell.

I had a big room as a slistening room. I always had a 2-dimensional vs 3-dimensional stereo system ready. I always started to talk for about 15 minutes about sound and also about 3-dimensensional sound.

Each single person (men and women) all choose for 3-dimensional sound. This had such a big influence on me that I stopped selling any kind of 2-dimensional audio again.

Almost all systems are 2-dimensional. In ourt world each system what creates no depth till 1 meytre of depth is 2-dimensional.

We call a system 3-dimensional when it is able to creat over 1.5metre on depth. 

For stereo and surround we use the same parameters and rules. 

3-dimensional sound makes both stereo and surround addictive and so much more appealing. It is the level of emotion and excitement what makes it superior to any 2-dimensional system. This is based on the human emotion and brains.

We create each stereo and surround system by Tru-Fi. These are 8 different parameters who all influence the human emotion. Most systems are incomplete and miss different parts of Tru-Fi.

3-dimensional stage is one of the 8 parts of Tru-Fi. In real sound, music and instruments stand in a 3(4) dimensional room.

It is insane that by far the most sold stereo and surorund systems are all 2-dimensional. Never you will hear a band playing on the same line like any 2-dimensional system is playing the music.

A surround system or even Dolby Atmos cannot create a 3-dimensional stage. I had to explain the people of Auro 3D that their system was a 2-dimensional system. 

They demoed a plane flying over us. When when the plane was flying more away from us it souned like the plane crashed.

I explained to him that his speakers and amps they use are all 2-dimensional. This is the DNA no one can change.

When he would have used amps, pre amp, source and speskers who are able to create a deep and wide stage his demo would have been much more realistic and would have create a real 3-dimensional stage.

I know the dna of many brands and products. By far most amps, pre amps, sources and speakers are 2-dimensional. This meand that also not even a system like Auro 3D or Dolby Atmos  will change this.

You can only create a 3-dimensional stage when each single part of your system owns it. For example: when you put a 2-dimensional product into a system what is able to create a stunning deep and wide stage, the full 3D stage is almost gone.

We have created Statement Audio Pro measurement. We work by 0.5 mm precision. And use the best professional lasers. We also use Audyssey pro but at a totally different superior effective way.

The people of Audyssey are very kind and helpful. But their knowledge in how a voice, instrument and the acoustic can work is limited. The measurments are done at the wrond places, wrong heights etc.

We have done for over 6 years of time in measuring the acoustic. In both stereo and surround we can create a Statement in sound. What creates a new level in realism ib  sound.

And yess this is 3-dimensional sound as it sounhds in real. I owned the most expensive Meridian 800 stuff. In my world at this moment the dna is not good enough to use anymore. In stage depth and width it misses the level other products can create.

Marantz (I sold it for over 6 years of time) is a 2 dimensional brand. This means that each component can create less than 1 metre of stage depth. Also Dolby atmos/Auro 3D will not change this.
I owned the 800 series products and I also sold Meridian. When you want each part based on highend level Meridian is not precise enough.

The amps they use are 2 dimensional. You need a much deeper and wider stage to call it ’real’ highend.

A 3 dimensional stage is the most important part what differences ’real’ highend from hifi stereo. Based on stage depth, width and height there are differerent brands who are able to create this. Meridian will not be able to create this based on their DNA.

The 861 is a great pre amp, but for ’real’ highend you need and want a wider and deeper stage.

In the past I liked their Tri-Field mode. But I am a lot further than this based on Statement Audio Pro measurement.

With S.A.P. measurement I can create better dynamics, more diversity in the middle frequencies and also more resolution compared to Meridian.

These parts are essential for ’real’ highend. I also created stealth low frequecy. This puts the subwoofer(s) in phase with the loudspeakers. But the most important difference is that I can place the energy ecactly where it is at the recording.

For example; When a subwoofer is in front of your system and the surround speakers are in the back. The energy of an explosion on the rear ledt speaker will give you the feeling that the energy is overthere.

We work at a much more precise level what outperforms any other way of measering a room. A perfectionist only goed for the best. Seconds best alsways will be for born losers.

I owned 4 different 800 players form 2001 till 2012. I know the 800 cd players very well. But they lack in stage depth and width. A stunning holographic stage is being created by the level a source, amps and speakers can build.

The thread is also about 3-dimensional sound. Both for stereo and surround. 3-dimensionalk sound makes music and movies much more life like and realistic. And yess it is what makes music and watching mocies much more appealing and addictive.

Beside properties roommeasurement is essential. The acoustics fucks up the sound quality the most. But there are many more parts whick have a bad influence on sound and also on a 3-dimensional stage.

These are smog, magnetism and highfrequent noise. We spend a lot of time in the last 2 years on these parts. Sound is a very complex item what is being build en limited by many different parts.

You need to understand them all. Same as you need to understand all the different properties each part in your system owns.

The sound in your room is being created by all the properties of all the different parts in your room including the acoustics. And the parts which negatively influence the sound.

To create the best 3-dimensional sound is based on using the right properties of each part in your system ( speakers, amp, pre amp, source. cables, conditioners and tools to limited parts like smog, magnetism and highfrequent noise) togheter with the best roomacoustic measurement.

Since 2009 I only sell 3-dimensional sound in both stereo and surround.
The problem of most roomacoustic systems is that you loose dynamics, deversity in the middle frequencies and resolution  in the high frequencies.

I use Audyssey pro for our measurement. But I use it totally different. At different places and heights. Beside this we use different  lasers and measure with 2 computers. The results are superior to the way Audyssey uses it.

Their way of measuring has many limitations. I needed to solve all the problems they still have.

I spend 5000 euros on new tools and lasers to create a superior and new level. This can make a huge improvement for all stereo and surround lovers all over the world. That is why I call it a Statement. 

The results speak for themselves. I always say; the sound will tell the truth. Words are not worth a thing. Even my words are worth nothing before you have auditioned it yourself.
Don't take words to personal. I want all people to get the best quality for the money they spend. This is only possible when you focus on the best possible.

When you would focus just on good, you will never reach the level what can create a difference for each single person.

I am working in audio since 1998, I met too many people who were screwed. Most products and brands will nevr be able to make people happy and satisfied with the products they bought .

It is our goal to give many people as possible a physical 3-dimensional sound without acoustic problems.

I sold Cambridge audio as well and I sold it a lot. But at the end the dna is still 2-dimensional.

This means that instruments and voices are standing almost on the same line. When you listen to music/sound in reals it stands in a 4-dimensional space.

3(4)-dimensional audio the music and movies are being played tangible fully free in space and in depth.  This gives your music and also movies a much more intens and emotional feeling.

What it does is that you will use your system a lot more and longer at the same time. I brought many people from 2D till 3D sound in both stereo and surround.

Their reactions says it all. We are now busy with our new website. Soon we will visit manufacturers to talk about our ideas and S.A.P-measurement.

Audiogon does not want people to make advertisement, I will not to this. Later this year the website wil be in english as well.

It is a new platform for sound&vision. With many professional 4K videos as well to explain and show how we work. We want to create a mcuh higher level in realism and quality.

The problem in audio is that over 99% is 2-dimensional. Based on our emotion it is not possible to be happy and satisfies for a long period of time. This is why people buy even after short time new stuff. Or they try new parts over and over again to become happy.

Based on the human emotion each kind of 2-dimensional audio will never satisfy any person. In the last 3 years I spoke to many people who spend a lot of money on audio.

There were many who said that they never have been happy to be honest. 2-dimensional audio is one of the main reasons for this problem.

Over 95% of all the products in audio speciallity shops is not worth it's money based on my personal opinion. We hope to create a more open and honest way for music and movie lovers.

It is my goal to be fully independent, this is based on the fact that I want to use most of the money for a foundation for people who have nothing.

Clients deserve more value for money and that is how we work. And not based on personal benefit.