Surprised


Every time I listen to my system I am delighted with the sound, realism, imaging, tonal quality etc. First to describe my system in 2-channel since it seems most people who read these forums listen to either 2-channel or 2.1 channel.
I have a pair of Paradigm Signature S2’s and compliment each of them with a REL R-528. The REL’s are connected high level at the binding post of the amplifier (Anthem P5). It took awhile but I have them dialed in pretty good to the point when I watch something, even a movie streamed from my computer (Amazon) which comes through in 2-channel, I’m fooled thinking my center channel is active. When low frequency information is delivered, I forget there are subwoofers and the whole soundstage comes alive.
I just wonder why more people don’t opt for quality bookshelf speakers each complimented with it’s own dedicated subwoofer. Keeping in mind the REL is different than conventional subs in the way it gets the same exact signal signature as the main speakers.
I’m interested in hearing others thoughts on my scheme as opposed to floor standers with a single sub with appears most popular.
oldschool1

Showing 2 responses by oldschool1

prof,

I must rebut to some of your post and this will apply to all of "us". First, we all have different speakers, room conditions, subwoofers, and ideas of what information is supposed to sound like.

Those who use a subwoofer OTHER than a REL, you basically have one way to connect it to your pre amp, through LFE. There are other methods however, that is the most common connection scheme. The REL connects not only to LFE but also high level. High level for those unfamiliar is straight to the amplifiers binding post where your speakers are connected. This is something unique to REL. It allows the same signal signature to reach the sub as the speakers. The LFE, well that's a no brainer. Essentially setting up a REL is a two stage process. Each connection scheme is set up individually without the other connected. Imagine having two subwoofers in one.

Next, subwoofer placement when it's a compliment to an individual speaker like mine is set up, is adjacent to the speaker. NOT in the corner of the room. If you have ONE subwoofer and looking to take advantage of room gain, then you do the sub crawl or use elaborate set-up methods. I'm not even gonna go into how a single sub is set up in a room as it is an art and you still end up "hearing" where the sub is. I don't care how good your sub is. There will be places in the room that will be energized more than others. That is why multiple subs are ideal.

My subs for this purpose are set up in stereo. My left main has it's own dedicated sub and so does the right. Essentially my "bookshelf" speakers, which were very pricey compared to what you're gonna get from most manufacturers and very "high-end", are very accurate and sound incredible. If you haven't auditioned a Paradigm Signature Series speaker, go hear for yourself before grouping them into a category of "budget" solutions. When you read a specification like the Signature S2, just knowing it can perform to ±2dB from 52 Hz - 45 kHz isn't enough. It's how accurate and tonal quality. And again, we all have different ears, right? With all that said, marrying a sub to each main speaker I essentially have the same as a floor stander with a HUGE benefit, a floor stander has a small driver usually 6-8 inches which can't possibly reach below 20 Hz as my 12" REL can and does. For those who prefer a floor stander, thats great. They're compact and take up little real estate on your listening floor. Having a stereo bookshelf and stereo subs, more real estate taken up but the advantage of dynamic range, realism of reproduction, and overall room energizing is far superior to having one sub stuck in a corner. I don't care what anyone says, 30 Hz IS directional resulting in hearing exactly where that sub is located.

That's my humble thoughts of stereo subs. IMO, the ONLY way to go! For watching movies, I have a third REL R-528 in the rear of the room center of the wall. This sub is only active for LFE. When a movie is playing and the .1 channel (LFE) is active, my listening position is center of the triangle of subs. You can not detect where any of my subs are from any intended listening position in the room.

To finish the system, I have a REL T-9 connected high level only to my center channel which is a Paradigm CC-690. Sure I could connect my center channel sub LFE as well but it's not needed. Oh btw, the REL R-528 sports a 500 watts RMS Class D amplifier. Doesn't get any better!

For those wanting help tuning their REL, here is a tutorial I used. It's a great read and very helpful:
https://relsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/categories/115000822488-How-To-Tune-My-REL

In closing, you probably have figured out I am a big fan of REL. That is because having a full set of them, I know their potential, understand their technology and how to set them up properly. They are unlike any other conventional sub out there. They are actually a "sub base" speaker than a subwoofer. I am not stating they are the best sub in the world. That is a matter of personal taste and why there are so many different manufacturers of subs. Although never heard the SVS, Rhythmik, or HSU, I understand they are outstanding products and for home theater, are great for the designed purpose. There are no subs out there more "musical" than the REL sub base speaker, hands down!
kosst, with all due respect, you are far from correct. If you’re talking about inexpensive bookshelf speakers, their performance doesn’t justify the money agreed, however, spend good money and get quality products and a REL will integrate nicely. Most quality bookshelf speakers are two-way, good to somewhere around 50Hz give or take some. My Paradigm Signature S2’s are good to 52 (±2dB from 52 Hz - 45 kHz) as per manufacturers specs. Therefore I crossover my R-528 at about 60Hz.
Floor standers (towers) are only good to roughly 40 Hz. Not that much difference. Also it’s important to have the sub the same distance from your listening position assuring there is no phase shift. A common mistake is stuffing a sub in the corner and their mains are 2-3 feet forward of them. This creates a timing issue as the mains will reach your ears before the sub.
The REL has the ability to seamlessly integrate at pretty much any frequency necessary. Too much overlap and it sounds like mud. Not enough and there’s a disconnect. Trick is to find that sweet spot. Don’t forget, volume has a play in it as well. The beauty of REL is as it’s connected high level, they get the same signature as the main speakers. I highly recommend a left and right subwoofer to compliment the left and right mains. With a REL integrated with each main speaker, it will blow away most floor standers (towers) without a sub. Although Focal speakers are very nice, I have a set of Utopia’s in my truck and they are outstanding, it’s all a matter of taste. I’d be careful making direct global comparisons without hard data to back it up otherwise you’re just stating an opinion.
Btw, my room is 13' x 15' x 8", hardwood floors covered by a rug. a sofa 4" from the rear wall, a coffee table and the only room treatment is some sound deadening foam center between the mains.

Here's my system;
Paradigm (Signature S2- Front L&R): (CC-690- Center): (Studio 20- Surround L&R)
REL R-528 (FL & FR, RL & RR, 3 total) / REL T-9 (CC)
Anthem P5 & AVM 60 / Oppo BDP-103 - Blu Ray
Interconnects: Audioquest, King Cobra & Yukon
Speaker cable FL & FR: Transparent Audio / AC cords: Audioquest NRG-4 & WyWires Juice II