Supporting Local Audio Stores are we?


I know, money talks, bullshi* walks...
But having owned an audio store for about a dozen years, I know how tough it is to 'make a living' for a mom and pop store, without some sugar daddy/momma in the background funding the enterprize.
So, I am wondering if the nice folks of Audiogon support local businesses?
As I stated, "Money Talks" and I get it, we all want the best 'value' for our money. The question is...when does the price versus local support begin/end. When does the follow up and or service/set up outweigh the raw savings?
To be clear, I am not talking fantastic discounts, but a few percentage points off retail. I remember a painful transaction that I had once, during which a customer had taken home a particular CD player two weekends running, only to purchase elsewhere because he 'saved' $53.00 (on a $500. item). OUCH!
I contended that without the long term audition, he had nothing on which to base his purchase? How does everyone else see this?
Right now, its obviously a tough financial climate out there, but looking to more normal times, I am wondering how many of the readers/writers of Audiogon would forego price for service/set up? OK, forget buying great used pieces for fractions of original retail, everyone must probably assume that that's good for everyone, including the dealers, as this frees up customers who are now, 'back in the hunt'.

It will be interesting to hear back, it's been some time since the Brick and Mortar (at least for me) question was aired out.

Best,
Larry
lrsky

Showing 2 responses by brimac

The biggest problem facing the dealer channel is its delivery mechanism. Margins have lost any grounding in reality, and so a $500 amplifier needs to be sold for $5000 in order for the manufacturer, the distributor, if any, and the retailer to stay in business. Why? Small volume for the mf, light sales for the retailer, and the need to make big margin at 2 or 3 levels in the delivery-to-market chain. And, as the potential customers for any product diminishes, the people involved in selling that product must derive larger profit margins to sustain the business. it's a vicious circle all right, Because as prices rise, less and less consumers see value and leave the market. It's a death spiral, and it's made high end audio pricing a laughingstock for people who get a glimpse at it from outside the hobby. Try justifying a 2 way loudspeaker priced at 25k to anyone outside the hobby. Especially when the parts cost for said loudspeaker might come in around 2.5k.

How has the industry responded to this condition? They've raised prices, naturally, and they institute price fixing at the dealer level to protect the network. which, of course, offers the same operating conditions no matter if a dealer can get by with a 20% profit margin or needs a 50% markup (And yes, margins for speakers can get at least that high, as well as electronics, with showroom discounts or bulk pricing) to pay his bills. This results in constraining the retailer who tries to bring some sanity to the price of the product and perhaps grow the volume on a product, and protects the retailer who continues to push a business model that has not evolved in, what, 50 years? Forever? This dealer seems to be happier selling one unit at a 50% margin rather than 5 units at a 20% margin. And so a consumer looks for better value, and takes his business online. As it exists currently, the dealer channel is unsupportable.

Is the business salvageable? I think so. Interest in better quality audio gear seems as strong a it ever was. Used gear that's priced well seems to sell very well here and on EBay. There are products that show good value at retail or just below, PSB and Magnepan come to mind.
And, and this is a big one, there's another media migration in the works,:CD to media servers. Sadly,, the industry still doesn't seem to get it if the products on display at the CES are any example. 25k CD players; 7k media servers like the Blue Smoke? Preamps with no DAC, DAC's with no volume control? Fortunately, some companies do get it, like Berkeley Systems and AVI. Maybe high end audio needs a sub-structure of companies that will help bring some value back to the market; and maybe these products need a to be offered at 30 day home trial direct from manufacturer or dealer. Let's face it, a listen at the dealer can not compare to having the product at home in your system for a month. Or, conversely, develop dealers who have other, more mainstream products to sell, such as computer dealers, who salivate at the thought of a 20% profit margin. Let them sell at whatever the market will bear, at some point pricing will self-regulate. Bring products to the awareness of the general public in stores that sell other products; how many average consumers enter high end audio stores? And yet, everyone listens to music.

No one likes to think they have made a bad deal;, we all look for good value when we make a purchase. But when I know 5k of my speaker purchase money is going to support my local dealer when I buy 10k speakers, I don't feel like I'm receiving good value. And, of course, I'm not. I'm really buying a 1k speaker with overhead. Of course it costs money to get a product to market, but when that cost is 10 times what the product's finished goods cost is, the perception of value, which is critical, loses credibility.
Hi Larry,

Given the context of your writings, it looks like you are establishing price by attaching values to service, product availabilty, demos, expertise. Given that there will always be customers who appreciate and happily pay for these attributes, do you then end up with a business that caters exclusively to the very few who are willing to pay 40% or 50% of the sticker price for these benefits? Seems to me you could do a whole lot better selling services a la carte to shoppers who need them. Bundling the service with the product is a solution for some, but it's patently obvious that, for the majority, they would prefer a choice. What if i call you with an order for a product, need no help or guidance in selecting it, just a fast over the counter transaction. If i pay your service surcharge without receiving or needing the service, am i not paying more than i should? If you want to call that extra payment 'supporting' my local dealer, i wonder what i get in return for said support, other than the uneasy feeling that I'm 'supporting' a business model that may no longer be relevant. i do apologize for being so blunt, but the answer to the thread is that, no, for many of us, we do not support our local dealer. Why? We think we can do better with our audio spending dollars elsewhere. It really is as simple as that i think.
i guess as long as I'm in this deep, i may as well articulate another belief i have regarding pricing and its impact on the industry. i believe that nothing has marginalized, isolated, satirized and damaged the high end more than the price structure neccessary to 'support' the infrastucture. When less consumers buy into the value proposition, retailers buy less product from manufacturers, they in turn need to derive more profit from weaker sales to support their business, and the end result is 50k amplifiers. So, in a very real sense, supporting my local dealer contributes to this flawed system and perpetuates the damage done to the industry.
It takes a brave man to ask the question you did on a used equipment forum full of value shoppers; hope you take the answers you receive in the spirit they're offered! I'm certain we all want the high end industry to succeed and be profitable, but it looks like we're on shaky ground based on the evidence before us. Maybe the high tech industry will save us from the death spiral that has become the high end industry; people do love music and are buying audio equipment; they just don't see any value in buying ours anymore, sadly.