Subwoofers with current source First Watt?


All, I’ve got a rather esoteric question that I hope those of you more technically minded than me might be able to help answer.

Today, I tried hooking up a pair of REL subs in stereo configuration to my First Watt F2-J via the high level Speakon connection. I won’t bore you with all the details of my daylong adventure, but both the subs and the amp behaved strangely connected this way; the sub seemed to significantly reduce the amp’s volume in one channel, while the subs themselves appeared to be receiving very little signal. This was consistent even when swapping the subs to different channels, changing the cords out, etc. Strangely, plugging in and unplugging the sub would change the amp’s volume, even if the sub was turned off. Unsettling stuff.

The F2-J is a current source amp - would that explain these strange results? Is it just not possible to run subs from this amp? Is there any danger to amp or subs here?

I also tried the subs with my SIT-3, which seemed to work appropriately. (Results were still unsatisfying, on the whole, but that’s an entirely different topic.)
I know there are some issues with running subs from Pass Labs amps, so I just want to make sure I’m not trying anything stupid with my First Watts. I can email Nelson about this as well but thought others here might have some thoughts to offer.

Thanks!
zm

Showing 5 responses by zm

My understanding from REL’s documentation is that they are designed to be integrated with the mains using a high level connection and that is the recommended method for using them.  At any rate, my preamp does not have a line out to supply the REL with a line level signal.
Thanks everyone for their guidance on this. I will definitely be in touch with Pass before proceeding any further with the F2-J. The SIT-3 manual explicitly states that the black terminal is ground and that it is safe to drive the inputs to subwoofer amplifiers, but the F2 manual says nothing about that.

Will report back just to archive the response for anyone in the future who might be in a similar situation searching the forums for an answer on this.

Thanks again and happy holidays!

@imhififan, indeed, I am wondering myself if the F2-J's high output impedance is one reason this happened.  But the REL's impedance is 100,000 ohms, which should produce no additional load for the F2-J? 

I admit I don't understand circuit design and basic electrical engineering well enough to understand all this.
Just to close the loop on this after hearing back from Nelson Pass. @imhififan was right, actually, although I agree that we should be careful not to generalize about First Watt topologies - but like the SIT-2, the F2 is a phase inverting amp, and the red (+) terminals are ground and the black (-) terminals are live.

Nelson advised to hook the subs up reverse polarity, which I did, and everything is working great. It’s a bit unnerving to hook the REL’s ground wire up to a positive terminal!

I wish that Nelson had put the information about the phase inversion (which is in the SIT-2 manual) in the F2 manual! Would have saved me a headache here...

So for the record and any future adventurers who find this thread - if you have a phase inverting amp, take care with how you make a high level connection to a subwoofer amplifier!