Subwoofer

All speakers benefit from subs in varying degrees. Even speakers with capable sub bass modules at there bases. I agree with subs enhancing and increasing sound stage and all frequencies adding detail and putting more air between instruments. And the more room modes you can activate the more evenly distributed bass and flatter response becomes. But don’t expect a sub or multiple subs to perform miracles if room acoustics are inhospitable, thats at least half the challenge of acquiring well tuned bass thats tight and natural. Another point worth mentioning again is trying to practice some resistance its much too easy to introduce too much bass. Often listeners will go overboard on gains then wonder why they aren’t happy with end results. Just because its there doesn’t mean you have to use it. Less gain is usually more in terms of over all sound quality. Your less likely to start burying other frequencies or pushing the listening environments capabilities or carrying the sub nearer to its distortion levels where it starts becoming more obvious. One more reason I prefer using more than one sub and as many as 4...5..6?? If you have the space to go crazy I say do it.

That’s my take on why people rule subs out. After having much difficulty integrating one their first attempts having a less than great experience they become frustrated give up and rule them out. Ill suspect an issue in the room before a $1500 rel. It comes to mind when I see comments suggesting subs sound "bad", or subs just aren’t for me. That would suggest only certain personality types are suited to subs. That’s silly. I’m convinced they just haven’t "cracked the code" and had subs and the room properly dialed in. Or might be too overzealous with gains. Once you have its a whole new ear opening experience. Bass blossoms all around, it submerges you, yet not to overwhelm. In turn it highlights contrasting frequencies. That I believe is what gives a greater sense of depth and realism to the sound stage. Vision is a sense that reacts positively to contrasting colors making opposing colors appear more vivid than they actually are, standing them further out. Hearing being a sense why would it be any different? As I sit and listen that’s what seems to be going on, and it makes perfect sense to me ;) Full size mains can achieve the same effect quite well, but you can still make it bigger, better.

Regarding how "fast" a sub woofer responds. I do not buy into many of those points. I believe it has more to do with driver motor assembly and the amplifiers dampening factor than cone material and overall weight. I often prefer paper and infused paper for its tonal qualities, never much considered its weight. But have had subs that employ poly and aluminum cone materials that did very well at reproducing natural tones and textures. I never detected any being inferior in terms of pace.

There are way too many factors at play, more than I care to try listing. To sync the subs to every set of mains would be major a feat in itself I would imagine. I would bet most if not all to be off if even by a millisecond or two. Such a minute difference that you wont be able to detect any difference without the use of the multi thousand dollar measuring devices anyway.

Some of the leading speaker manufacturers such as Scan Speak.employ paper, I suspect for good reason. Name calling is childish, I’m not here to debate with the likes of that. Or narrow mindedness. As far as material goes, no one can ever prove which is superior because it comes down to a personal presence, as do many things in this hobby. Enjoy your shootouts.

My closed box Miller&Kreisel subs are paper. They can sound shockingly natural with percussion. I strongly felt I got on the right path with CB and paper after having a bunch of good quality OB subs with a range of different cone materials. Rythmik's are my next subs of choice, again with CB and paper. They left me as if not more impressed than the MK's. It wasn't my listening environment and I'm anxiously awaiting to hear what they do in my own space.        

I can be very particular and posses a keen sense of hearing. I was playing music by ear before I was introduced to my first music teacher. I do not require laser guided measuring devices or proper star alignment before partaking in sub woofer set up to integrate subs to a level of personal satisfaction. I can distinguish variances brought forth by things like cone material and surface areas. I can also appreciate multiples of 8" sub woofers as I find they often produce tighter cleaner bass. Not to say subs with larger cone surfaces are inferior in this respect I don’t believe that to be true all the time. I do believe not all subs are created equal even while being seemingly equal to some. Steps out.

You can put me down on record saying REL and MJ acoustics do very competent subs. The relevant point of cone break up was brought up. That can be one of paper's disadvantages if your like me and push your systems too hard at times. This is another reason multiple subs are a good idea, not only with paper. Not only will multiples make it easier to obtain fuller bass and a flatter response but you wont have to push two quite as hard to get closer to desired DB levels. There are usually compromises everywhere. As with EQ'ed sealed boxes and box ring. Yet another reason to have multiple subs in your set up. The more the merrier. I switched things around a little bit this morning and connected my two JBL subs, they can take a little more abuse. Come to think of it, those happen to have paper cones too. Coincidence, probably not ;).        

You would think Rel would of caught on after all that time. That or stop tricking the ears of all they're happy customer's ;) 

120 hz looks to be about the average crossover cut off point on many commercial subs. They are capable but you will create unwanted over lap and have problems integrating them. At least that has been my experience. When subs are set too high for the mains they stand out as less of a seamless integration. Especially true while using full size floor standers capable of going a lot lower.