Subwoofer

You need to understand that a speaker can give it's lowest frequency when you play at loud volumes. When you play at normal volumes, the speaker does not go that low.

Subwoofers go deeper at lower volumes, this is a big advantage. And now comes the main part, you can point out low frequencies from 80hz. 

When you use a subwoofer with an extreme fast driver ( ceramics/alluminium) you can use it till 140hz with ease. This is including acoustic measurment. 

The influence becomes even bigger. It can make instrument and voices more palpable. You even hear more details when you compare the same music without a subwoofer.

Even stage depth and width is expanding with a subwoofer when you are able to use it the right way.

Most subwoofers are to slow in response, so you can't use them over 100hz. In these situations you are better of without a subwoofer.

But.....in 2016 it is possible to create a higher level in sound wiith a subwoofer than without. And yes we are talking only about stereo use.

In the past I said: a subwoofer for stereo use is useless. But....faster subwoofers, using them till 120hz and my own developed Stealth low frequency made me think totally different about subwoofers for stereo use.

But.....still most subwoofers own a slow response. This means still most subwoofers are useless. Even in 2016 there are many subwoofers who create more difficulties than advantages.

About 80% of my clients buy speakers with a subwoofer. Because I have proven that I can create a higher endresult with a subwoofer compared to a situation without a subwoofer.

When you still believe paper is the way to go for subwoofers, you would be a fool. To a few Velodyne owners I have proven that their subwoofers are too slow. 

You need to make audio understandable for many people. Shootouts and explanations why the sound is what you hear is the essential key to bring people to a higher level in sound quality.

Even with a 4000 watt amp, a paper driver is still slow in response. Doesn't make sense. 

You need to look further to focus on the best response/timing possible. To create this each part needs to be used to the max. 

In the past I have sold many Rel subwoofers. For surround I liked them, but for stereo use they were too slow. Because when we did tests in response and timing it was easy to find the limitations. For a perfectionist they are never acceptable.

In the last few years I have auditioned the latest Rel subwoofers as well, they are still not fast in response enough.

Material use is essential for the best response. You should use light and fast materials. Like ceramics and aluminium. That is why I don’t understand why they use the material they use. For Velodyne the same story.

The Velodyne subwoofers were the first which I auditioned who could create a sound without problems with the acoustics of the room.

This was an important part what was not that good in the past.

But still you had other limitations, these limitations were:

- Not a perfect integration with the speakers. It often felt if instruments and voices became more blurry and less focussed during shootout.

I have done a lot of research in room acoustic measurment and I also created a different way to measure a subwoofer. With results were we could only dream of 10 years ago.

At the end it is all about timing. First of all you need subwoofers with a response fast as a rocket. Second you need a professional room acoustic measurement system. And you need the best profesional lasers you can get. And you need to understand music.

This last part is forgotten in audio many times. This had become a serious problem. When you ask simple questions to people who give an audio demo and they don’t know anything about music. Audio becomes useless.

A new approach of measurment, professional microphone and professional lasers has created Stealth Low frequency.

It fully integrates with the speakers. But the main difference is that the energy of instruments is exactly were it the energy should be. When I give  a demo you see their reaction that it cannot be possible. Even when the subwoofer is over 3 metres away from the energy.

The funny thing is that years ago people here at audiogon told me that I a am a liar. The people who auditoned it I have told this story often.

They had to laugh and said: I understand their reaction, because they never auditioned it themselves. For me and my clients it has become quite normal.

And yesss stereo with a subwoofer always will win from any speaker set without a subwoofer. Even when you use a speakerset of 500.000 dollar with starts at below 16hz it will not win.

Because when you use stealth low frequency each part you judge sound for gets better. And even at low volume you can create a much more realistic low freq. Because even a speakerset of 500.000 dollar needs to be played at extreme volumes before they can reach 16hz.

I never thought that I would sell stereo with subwoofers. Now in 2016 over 80% of all my stereo clients use a subwoofer.

When we visit shows ( even Highend Munic) often demos with subwoofers are so limited. Because most don’t understand music and audio.

Many brands still use drivers with material what is too slow. Even EQ will not solve this limitation.

I also use Ultra Stillpoints, which make a huge improvement in timing and accuracy. Same about using a 100% silver interconnect.

At the end each part you can use to improve response/timing are essential to create a stunning integration.

Because most subwoofers and the way people use them are still too slow for a optimum level of integration.

In the past subwoofers were used more often for multi-channel, but.....these days you have the option even for stereo use to create a superior level compared than any system without a subwoofer.

In 2005 I thought this was not possible. But now I can say; It is possible. This makes stereo so much more appealing to listen to music.

For me ( born perfectionist) audio is comparing and testing.....over and over again. This part never stops. In almost 18 years of time I have done thousands of tests in sound&vision. Only to find those products who give the best results. Because inferior products don't add anything to the world of audio.

For me audio is not about good, but only about the best. Because this way you will get only clients with a big smile on their face. 

In almost 18 years of time I learned that over 95% of all products in audio are not worth it's money. 

Í would never advice a subwoofer which is not sealed. Each single part to improve the timing is an advantage in accuracy and integration. When you use subwoofers with a 15 inch driver, you get a more natural sound. Also with more authority.

@ricred1 : I will send you a personal message this weekend. I had to find out how I can send a personal message.

These days I can set subwoofers up to 140hz and higher. This is not possible with paper cones. This makes a huge improvement for the integration.

In the past I never went further than 80hz. Rel subwoofers could not even reach this level.

After a phonecall of a client of mine to use it till 120 hz, I tested it directly. And mannn this gave a new level and thoughts. I never had thought to use it this far. These days I set most sold subwoofers till 120hz.

What I said before; there are many ways to improve the interation of a subwoofer. Stealth low freq can only be reached by professional mic and lasers. By hand this accuracy is not possible.

In almost all shops and at shows I only audition low level of integration. This means that setting up a subwoofer is still difficult for most people.

Even with the roomacoustic systems a subwoofers owns you still have not the perfect integration.

When instruments and voices become bigger in proportion or less focussed, you know one thing for sure.....it doesn’t integrate as it should!

I auditioned the DD18 a few years ago. The thing I liked was the integration in the room without any acoustic problems.

But the instruments and voices became less focussed and bigger in proportion. We switched between on and off. That is why you need a room acoustic system what measures both speakers and subwoofer togheter. And not separated.

Audio is testing and comparing. I started to test in 1998 to know all the different properties of each part of an audio set.

Today a client of mine phoned me. He auditioned a surroundset with the new Platinum series II from Monitor Audio.

This set was with the Pl-300, Pl-100, PL-centre and PLW215 subwoofer. Also here the subwoofer was measurend with the room calibration system of the subwoofer. They were not able to let the subwoofer play above 40hz.  Because the control was gone.

These days all subwoofer go till 120hz. The only reason I am able  to  create this is because I can measure the subwoofer very accurate. They become one with the speakers. This is a huge advantage. Using lasers makes it even more precise.

This is amature level in audio,  and this is common these days. Beside this it does not integrate like Stealth Low Frequency. 

Velodyne needs a better response. Last year a client of mine visit me. He also owns the DD18. I told him what Stealth low frequency means and does.

After the demo his words were: This is the level of integration what I would wish. This is a different level compared to my Velodyne. He understood that the difference in timing and speed  is huge.

I use shootouts and testing to find the best products and create the best sound possible. Audio is understanding music and second you need to find out which properties each part owns.

The acoustics of a room limits the quality of an audio set te most. I can garantee you that most people loose a big part of the quality their system could give in a better acoustic room.

It doens’t matter how expensive the audio system is, the room has a huge influence on the end results. So here you can win the most to create a better end result.

That is why I have done hundreds of tests in the last 6 years regarding the acoustics of a room. I have improved it over and over again. It never stops, because a perfectionist goes on and on....

Over time you have new ideas and they bring it to an even higher level. This is what I love about audio as well. Testing and shootouts is like an addiction for me. It doesn't cost me energy, because audio is like a second nature for me.

How I hear music and instruments in real, I want an audio system to sound like. It is in my head and I create it by colleting properties of all the different parts. It is like a puzzle. You combine different pieces togheter to listen what it does. When you have done this like me thousands of times, you see patterns. They make you understand why the stage and sound is what you hear.

In 2005 I had ideas how a subwoofer should integrate, but at that time I thought it was not possible. But now in 2016 it has become possible.

Time and technique go on and they give us much more tools to create a higher level of realism in sound.

That were my first thoughts as well, but I test and compare. At the end the best results count. I have proven that it can bring subwoofers to a much higher level compared to the old fashion way of using it till 40-80hz.

Most subwoofers are too slow to be used this far and second you need a professional system to make the subwoofer one with the speakers.

At the end it is possible and brings it to a new level of integration.

A few years ago I demoed Stealth Low freqency to a surround specialist. He never auditioned something like this and he said: I think you have gold in your hands with this.

What you hear and perceive counts. I never thought that I would sell stereo with a subwoofer to be honest. Till 2008 I hated subwoofers for stereo use.

All the tests I made with Statement Audio Pro measurment did change my thoughts completely.

You need to look further to create new levels of quality in sound.

I have had many discussions with technical people who developed the best highend products. But when I asked them about the properties of the products they use at their shows they could not answer.

So I said; then you don’t understand how the sound and stage is being build what you listen at? They become totally silent. They were not able to answer the question.

I test each part/tool ( amp, cable, speaker, source, condtioner etc.) to find out which properties it owns. I work and think by Total Sound. This contains 8 parts you judge sound for.

This way you much better can control audio and adapt it like you want it. Because you understand why the sound and stage is what you hear.

Another benefit is that you are able to use all the properties a speaker owns. I have proven that I can let people hear that they are missing parts in their set. Thye miss parts of Tru-Fi. All these parts influence our emotion.

When you create an audio set with all the different parts you judge sound for, it will be more complete. People are more exited and feel more emotion during listening.

"regarding cone material.....Rythmik’s Brian Ding recommends AGAINST crossing-over his aluminum coned subs at higher than 80Hz "

I understand because the are too slow, and cannot handle more. This is a limitation, you never should choose for audio tools which have limitations. Most tools/products in audio have limitations and that is why you should never buy them.

A full aluminium cone is also not the right material. You can use aluminium, but....just for a part. That is why ceramics with aluminium works better.

When you compare and test subwoofers who are able to be used till 120hz or higher they outperform the paper subwoofer with ease.

Audio needs to be used to find those products which give the best result, all other inferior products does not add anything to the world of audio!

I will explain it once again: I compare and test all the time. The only thing what is important in audio is that those products who give the best results do matter. All the other products doens’t make sense.

Even te brand does not matter, because when another brand can give a better result, this will be the new reference.

When paper subs would be better than ceramic subs I would want them and sell them. But all results gave the same answer.

When I would get better results at 80hz, I would use it all the time. But 120hz makes clear that it is a lot better. That is why you need to test and compare all the time.

Over and over again......

It is our crying Woolfy again. I guess you still use your "old' Rel 150 subwoofer.

 In audio the most convincing sound always will win. It is not 6 years, but 18 years of sales experience. The biggest difference compared to all my collegues is that I have done a lot a research in those 18 years of time. And still do. Most people who work in audio seldom do any research in audio.

And yess all products are not perfect. But only when you are aware of all the properties ( d.n.a. of a tool) it owns you could be able to use them.

When I ask to people; tell me the properties of the product you own or sell? They can’t answer it. This means that you will never understand what you are doing.

When I asked a few people who work in audio for a long time and who sell highend about properties they couldn’t tell.

When I asked them but tell me then how the sound and stage is build, they could not tell. So they said: I guess you are right that this way it is difficult to control the sound.

So I said: it is not about the fact if I am right. You need to understand that the way you use audio never will work that well.

These settings we used 15 years ago with Rel subwoofers as well. Because you cannot use them a lot higher.

I can garantee you 100% that this is inferior compared to using a subwoofer till 120hz.

Rel you cannot use it this high, because I had clients with new Rel subwoofers who were not able to be set till 120hz

I would never recommand a subwoofer what can be set to max 80hz. When I compared a subwoofer what is able to be used till 120hz, they directly sold their Rel.

The rule in audio is; at the end each person will choose for the best endresult. That is why you need to show people the limitations of their subwoofer.

What do you want to hear......the truth or the thing you would like to hear......

In audio there are still a lot of people who want to hear what they want to hear. These I cannot help!

It is a fact that subwoofers give a superior level of qualtity and integration whrn used till 120hz.

But most subwoofers are not able to be used till 120hz. And this is a fact as well. 

I have proven this many times and you are welcome for a shootout to listen it yourself.

In the past you had less different other options. These days there are more options, but also better options like REL.

Shootouts give you the information that they are not the best anymore. In my world the best only counts. I don't care what the name is.

The best results always counts. The quality of subwoofers these days is a lot better based on better materials ( much faster response) and measurement systems.

10 years ago I never thought that we would have the level in speed and integration what we have today. And that the best subwoofers in speed even can be used till 120hz and higher.

In the past we only sold Rel subwoofers. We never went further than about 50hz-60hz.

Based on surround we went to 80hz. I never thought about using it further than that. Until a client of mine phoned me in 2012. He read about an article about using subwoofers till 120hz.

Before I tested it I said that I thought that it could make a possitive difference. After my tests I knew.

These days all subwoofers I sell I use till 120hz of sometimes even 140hz. Even in stereo use I have proven that it makes a huge improvement.

These days I use the best professional lasers to work at mm. precision and professional roomcorrection. Without these tools you cannot work precise enought to use it till 120hz.

Beside this you need subwoofers who use ceramic/aluminium drivers.

When you can measure the subwoofer with the speakers togheter you can create a much better timing.

Nice to hear you bought the Pl-500. I will send you a personal messsage when I have tested the Pl-500 and PLW215.

Audio is all about comparing and creating the best endresult, it is that simple.

When 80hz or lower would give better results we would use it. But it is inferior, so you would be a fool to choose a lower endresult.

I had a client with a Wilson Audio Sasha. I sold them for him a few months ago. He was never happy with them. He didn't like the tweeters and he also didn't like the low freq. Even with the Momentum Stereo he found the low freq not tight and missed the layers he was looking for.