Subwoofer: should we even use them at all?

I have been using a sub for 20 years...and over that time have joyed getting a more and more seamless integration. the combination of my main speakers being upgraded to the point where the sub is now only playing 40hz and below plus the improved speed, quality of subs and their crossover software has made it a joy for me. The ambience, foundation deep underneath orchestral, live performances as well deep house/electronic is wonderful. Good luck. Good set up is a must...but for me, I will never take mine out. And more owners I know who have my speakers (Wilson X1/Grand Slamm) or the Alexandria's use them with subs than those owners I know who don't.

I agree with Martykl...a good combination is tough to beat in my opinion.

I cannot say if my own X1/Grand Slamms plus Velodyne DD18 would work for others...but it works for me. And I know more owners of the big Wilsons who DO use Subs with them (in parallel...not cutting off the Wilsons) than those who do NOT use them.

At below 40hz, I honestly find the solidity of foundation is wonderful, and I find the 'blending' to be quite good after months and months of fine tuning every few weeks.

Hi Bo1972, as an owner of Velodyne DD18 (original), I think I know where you are coming from. How is the DD18+ by comparison?

Have you ever heard JL Audio, Krell Master Ref Sub or the new Magico QSub? Just curious since it would be fun to hear from someone who has. I certainly have read many good things about JL, but curious if you've heard them how you would compare them with my trust old DD18. Thank you!!

Got it. Thanks, Martykl. I am working on a few custom 'tweaks' at the moment. After these I will look further into the active crossover.

cool post...thanks Rhyno.

Hi Martykl,

Thanks for another very detailed post. A question for your advice:

- I have Wilson X1s and am contemplating using the Wilson Active Crossover to cut them off below 38hz (as recommended by David Wilson)...and have the Active Crossover send a properly adjusted sub-38hz signal to my Velodyne DD18.

- Currently I run the X1s full range with a 2nd IC from my preamp to the Velodyne DD18

- I'd love to get a Thor...but that is serious money for a sub! (not to mention amp, cables, etc)

- I am told to expect a very significant improvement in the effortless of the X1s even with such a seemingly subtle change

(I use a Gryphon Colosseum amp to drive the X1s).

I have found tremendous improvement thru vibration isolation of my X1s (Ultra 5s, some mass damping of the upper modules)...and have been told that Actively crossing them over may even produce a greater improvement through even further reducing distortion from thermal, mechanical and cone excursion associated with these toughest/lowest frequencies.

Assuming it is professionally set up by the Wilson dealer who carefully adjusts the Active Crossover (crossover frequency, rolloff, phase, etc) including the sub38hz-signal to send to the Velodyne...what do you think? Worth a try?

I am told it is a great bang for buck given its "only" a Wilson Crossover and one extra IC.

WHAT KINDS OF IMPROVEMENTS WOULD YOU EXPECT ME TO HEAR (IF ANY?) Thanks for your advice!

Hi Bo1972,

I am also a big fan of PAD cables and use their 25th Ann to Canorus across the board, with 2 exceptions: my Gryphon Colosseum was sold (2nd hand) to me with its own Gryphon Ref cable; and my Sub...after using PAD Canorus/Dominus for years...I now use Sablon Audio Quantum Gran Corona which is the only cable I have found I prefer to the mighty PADs. FWIW...I could hardly complain about the PAD with my Velodyne...so I agree with you. But I was pleasantly surprised by Mark Coles great designs with the SA QGC cable (which I thought did have some silver in it?)

Thanks, Martykl,

Interestingly, because I can mute my Gryphon Colosseum amp, I often do so just to hear how much the Sub is working. I will say it surprises me how much it is active.

I don't hear notes per se, but the room seems tons bigger. This is on many, many recordings (live recordings) as well as deep house, electronic, soundtracks, etc.

I can mute my CJ preamp...which shuts off everything...and suddenly the 'atmospherics' disappear and I am back in our living room. But with the CJ UN-muted (but the Gryphon amp still on mute so no X1s)...those atmospherics come back again.

I believe this is part of what I like about good subs.

But your point is well taken...how much does this really alleviate from the X1s? The only thing I know is that DW himself designed the Wilson Thor/XS to be used with the big X-series speakers (cut off below 38-39hz with the Wilson Active crossover)...

guess there is only one way to find out! Thanks for your advice.

Rockadanny,

Totally agree!!!