I have found that a very musical sub works well for my tastes with music. Something like the REL Strata or MJ Acoustics Ref100 should work perfectly. If you want something for Home theater to mimic dinasaurs stomping about, then get a more powerful sub with a stiff cone that stands out and forget about music. |
Raul, How do you roll-off the lows from the main speakers ?
My sub does not have "hi-pass" outputs to drive the main amplifier. My pre-amp drives the sub (with its built-in amp) and the main amp directly, so even though the sub handles the lows, the main amp and speakers see the full audio spectrum. |
Well. I have worked on speaker placement for general quality. My work at that time didn't come up with anything that increased the bass a lot. I wouldn't want to do an extreme placement for bass that messed up everything else.
The most bass I ever had was when I bought the Musical Fidelity A5 and was still powering my PSB Stratus Bronzes. Switching to the Unico SE dropped the bass notably, but to proper from almost overwhelming.
Before this stuff, I never would've thought I'd like that much bass. Now I want it along with all the quality the Adagio's have everywhere else. So this is how you get hooked on endless upgrading. |
Dear Shakeydeal: I don't want to disturb you on the subject and my thoughts are in the attitude to give what IMHO is a worth to try alternative.
IMHO and due to my subs experiences the primary/main use of subwoofers in a stereo audio system ( not HT. ) is not to attain a best bass response but to lower the IMD in the main speakers ( almost any passive speaker. ), let me explain:
if we take your P-10's and due to its woofer crossover frequency point ( 500 hz. ) " we " are asking to that woofers ( drivers ) to reproduce with accuracy at the same time frequencies that its needs are different: 30 hz , 100 hz, 200 hz, 500 hz and the like, those long woofer excursions of a 30 hz frequency " disturb " and degrade the quality response that that same woofer has to reproduce on higher frequency range ( say 100 to 600 hz. ), this kind of interrelationship between different frequencies that most be reproduce by the same woofer/driver has a name: Intermodulation Distortion. It does not matters how good the woofers and design are that IMD exist and degrade the quality performance always ( nothing is perfect and exist trade-offs. )
What happen if we liberate that woofers from 80Hz and down ( that the woofers in the main speakers handle only the range from 80 hz and up )?
the IMD goes at minimum/lower given you a better/clear midbass/upper midbass/lower midrange, and not only in the original woofer frequency range but " clean " all the main speaker performance where you now can have and will hear " sounds " that that IMD hiden before: now the main mid range and high frequencies are outstanding with a presence that you never before attain in your system.
with the integration of two subwoofers in true stereo way you will have additonal benefits: not only a deepest bass but a more accurate bass because this frequency range is now handle by a dedicate woofers that were designed in specific for that frequency range and where too the subwoofer dedicated amplifier was designed in specific for that critical frequency range.
other advantage is that your main amplifiers will work a lot better because now the frequency range operation is from 80hz and up.
now you don't have to made/make any compromise in the room placement of your speakers between the " best " bass against the " best " midrange/high frequency/soundstage. Now you can choose the best place ( room interaction ) for your main speakers and the best place ( subs ) to attain the whole quality audio system performance that you and the music deserve.
Only an opinion.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
Thanks Raul, but no thanks. I have owned (and loved) subs before. But I am getting the best bass response in my current setup than I have ever had before.
Shakey |
JM Labs SW-900. Sounds great. |
Dear Shakeydeal: If you still own those beautiful Piega P-10 and due to that frequency croosover point ( around 500hz. ) between the woofer and the mid range driver IMHO you too could improve the overall quality performance of your audio system adding a pair of subs in true stereo fashion.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
What you fail to understand is that looking at my profile will tell you little or nothing about me or my history. I have been posting here and at Audio Asylum since their inceptions. My initial retort to your post was made with tongue planted firmly in cheek, so no need to question my humor either.
Shakeydeal refers to a Neil Young alter ego, if you must know. But thanks for your little attempt at that dig.
You should relax and release that sphincter muscle a little. A laxative perhaps?
Shakey |
Yes it did clear things up. Let me sum it all up:
1 - You obviously think that hijacking someones thread is more important than pointing out accidental grammatical errors.
2 - Merriam also has an extensive definition for "humor" which, IMHO, you need to look up.
3 - A formidable retort would be one that isnt an obvious copy/paste from the internet. But maybe you're not the most cunning linguist?
4 - "Shakeydeal" is an excellent choice for a user name. Especially on a web site that prides itself for providing a forum of trust between members for the exchange of very expensive items. But from the looks of your profile...you dont have to worry about that.
5 - Ah, the good ol' days. I remember back when I was 13.
Lastly, and most importantly, Dave_rosenblum, please excuse me for having to resort to explaining the obvious to those in need of help. My original intentions for posting a reply in your thread were, well, for obvious reason. Cheers. |
From good ole Merriam:
Base:
a (1) : the lower part of a wall, pier, or column considered as a separate architectural feature (2) : the lower part of a complete architectural design b : the bottom of something considered as its support : foundation c (1) : a side or face of a geometrical figure from which an altitude can be constructed; especially : one on which the figure stands (2) : the length of a base d : that part of a bodily organ by which it is attached to another more central structure of the organism
2 a : a main ingredient b : a supporting or carrying ingredient (as of a medicine)
3 a : the fundamental part of something : groundwork, basis b : the economic factors on which in Marxist theory all legal, social, and political relations are formed
4 : the lower part of a heraldic field
5 a : the starting point or line for an action or undertaking b : a baseline in surveying c : a center or area of operations
I hope that cleared it up for you AND David.....
Shakey |
Shakeydeal
No sorry, If I want real bass, Ill hop in my bass boat and go for a trip listening to Jaco on the bass. I hope that cleared it up for you. |
Dear Dave_rosenblum: I think that a pair of Velodyne's in true stereo fashion will be a huge improvement on your system quality performance.
You have to think that when you " integrate " subwoofers in true stereo way the most important subject is that in that way you will lower the IMD and THD on your main speakers where now you can find that that main speakers are a lot better that what you are hearing today, you can't believe the huge improvement on the quality performance of those main speakers: just gorgeus!!
Other very important advantages on the subject are that now you will have not only a deepest low bass but with the right quality performance and the amplifier that runs the main speakers will perform better ( quality ) too.
As you can see the " reinforcement " of low bass ( if you take the right road ) could transform for the better the whole/overall quality performance of your home audio system.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
>more than enough base for me,<
Oh geez.....not more base......
Shakey |
I'm with Aptquark, more than enough base for me, at least for my music preferences |
Aptquark,
Ok, we get it, they have lots of "base". But what about the lower frequencies commonly referred to as "bass"? Do they have any of that going on?
Shakey |
mine have plenty of base...Jesus how much base do you need? Those things put out a rediculous amount of base for their size. Have you experimented with placement? |
I use a totem lightning sub for help on the lowest end reinforcement. works well to my ear. however these are no longer made by totem, their newer subs are smaller.
like totem, i would look for other companies specializing in smaller driver speakers. |
