Subwoofer budget max $700: new vs used, brand?

The 10" SVS sub is $400 and the company has a stellar rep, although that is mostly (I think) built on their larger subs which start at app $600 for the 12" model.

However, IME, integration is first priority, before ultimate subwoofer quality. I use the Velodyne SMS-1 sub controller with middling quality subs and am delighted with the performance. Therefore, I'd personally spend less and buy a lower quality sub if that also allowed me to buy a good controller for improved integration. I'm sure others will disagree.

You can get the Velodyne SMS-1 sub controller on line at $400. This has a very flexible low pass filter (and a rudimentary high pass for your mains), room analyzer, and PEq to allow (with some work and some patience) seamless integration of a sub (or subs, up to 3) with many different main speakers. I haven't heard the 10" SVS, but given the company's reputation alone, I'd be awfully tempted to go with that sub and the SMS-1. Caveat: total cost of $800 is a bit over your max.

Marty

Rabco,

I'm saying that my mediocre (compared to, say, JL or probably SVS) Velodyne SPLRs sound great when properly integrated with a good controller. They sounded pretty ratty when I tried to dial 'em in by ear. My take is that okay subs can sound very good, if you set them up correctly. I will never again attempt to integrate subs by ear - it's hard enough WITH the SMS! With the SMS, at least you'll eventually get it done right, but it will take some time & effort. By ear.....

As to multiple seating locations:

The Velodyne optimizes for 1 listening position. Audyssey makes a similar system ($2500 and up) that optimizes for multiple spots and multi-channel. No surprise that they also make a cheaper OEM product that's included in a bunch of AVRs and Pre/Pros from Integra, Dennon, Marantz, etc. This system is full range room correction - so you have to like that idea. As a practical matter, the stand alone box is pricey and the OEM product probably means replacing your preamp, pre/pro or AVR and that likely blows your budget.

Another route is from SVS which now markets a stand-alond Audyssey box for bass correction only. However, -and kinda strangely - since it's designed to take a subwoofer (LFE) input, it can't utilize the x-over function in the SVS subs. That is, it must take the LFE output from an av pre/pro, AVR, or external active x-over. It's also $700 or so and also presents budget issues for you.

In summation, no matter which sub I use, I will go for a controller, too, whether Velo's SMS, Audyssey, or some other brand. It's also the advice I'd offer you or anyone else - just based on my own personal experience.

Good Luck,

Marty

PS If you do decide to go with the SMS, be aware that you need a monitor with S video input to use the room analyzer. Since it sounds like your set-up is AV, shoulodn't be any issue.

Bob has a point here. Trying to do both pieces at your budget is definitely a bit of a stretch. However, if I were looking for best performance for the $, I'd probably try to stretch, anyway. Here's why:

Warning: the words "slow" and "fast" are used in the following paragraphs as they are commonly seen on these threads. I'm not saying such characterizations are valid, just commonplace among those with opposing subwoofer philosophies. We'll call these 2 groups A) the "slow is okay" camp and B) the "distorted is okay" camp.

The first focuses on high output & low distortion. These subs are often ported designs. The downside is that such designs are often underdamped and strike some as "slow". The other side usually prefers highly damped subs and looks to sealed designs. These "fast" subs generally produce lots of distortion at low frequencies (relative to the ported designs).

The specs "distortion' and "group delay" (respectively) that reflect these performance paramaters are hotly debated. Each side points out that poor performance on the "other side's spec" is usually inaudible - even if the numbers look pretty awful. My point is that I tend to agree with BOTH sides. My subs perform relatively poorly on both specs, but sound GREAT! My take away is that most well regarded subs of EITHER design probably perform "well enough" on both specs, even if the numbers look ugly.

The further upshoot is that poor performance (and the vast majority of sub set-ups I've heard would qualify as "poor performers" to me) is probably due to something else - like poor integration. My experience bears this out. As my measured frequency response near the x-over improved, the system sounded better. Since I didn't expect this result when I started the experiment (long story there), I tend to put a lot of weight on this result. That's why I'd go controller first.

OTOH, you also have to remember, that you may hear hear things I don't/can't. People hear things differently, one to the next. Just because high distortion at 25hz or lots of group delay is completely inaudible to me, that doesn't mean it's inaudible to everyone! So, beware, YMMV.

One day, I'll replace my subs with better performers. The SVS SB12+ that Bob recommends actually performs pretty well on group delay AND astoundingly well on distortion (talking specs only here!). For the money, I agree that they would appear to represent unusual value and I'll probably do that - even if the measured performance benefits aren't dramatically audible.

In the end, I suspect there's a benefit to owning better performing subs. It's just that I KNOW there's a great benefit to well integrated subs. Hence, my inclination to go controller first. Other thoughtful posters obviously feel somewhat differently.

Marty