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Sub placement

Greetings all and thanks in advance regarding this question.

Go to the “about” page to see my equipment and room:
theaudioatticvinylsundays.com

I have had the same equipment more or less for 30+ years, excepting the sub, which was added 7 years ago. The only other major change has been the room. Three years ago, I moved from a lively, noisy lower Manhattan loft of 41 years to a room that has walls and ceiling insulated with 6” to 17” of rockwool covered by burlap, snd 7” of rockwool under the floorboards between the joists. This made a decided improvement.

In spite of all the insulation, the room, with its weird shape - two dormers and a gable - does present some challenges.

I have never been happy with the sub placement.

I had been following the advice of a friend who worked as the sound engineer at the UN. He said to put it where you sit, walk around the room until you find the spot where it sounds best, and then put it there.

There was never a spot where it sounded best. A few that sounded better, but did not stand out in any way. I would try one for a few months, then tire of it and try another.

Over the weekend, I spent a few hours cleaning out the dust in the amps, resetting the tubes, rotating the Altec drivers in the cabinets, etc.

For some reason, I thought that, hey, I never tried putting the sub behind the listening spot. So I put it under my desk, which is about 3 feet directly behind the armchair where I sit to listen.

Voila.

Anyone have any experience with the sub behind the listening spot? Is this weird or actually not so uncommon?

Anyone venture a guess as to why that would work? A recording studio friend who I thought would make more than an educated guess said to just file it under “hey, it works, don’t think too hard about it, just sit back and enjoy!”

I suppose “home theatre systems” with their half dozen or more speakers around the room do this all the time, but I’m not getting why putting everything from 20 to 70 behind me and everything from 70 to 20,000 in front of me would not only help make the bass more textured and authoritative, but also help open up the rest of the soundstage: make it feel airier, clearer and more detailed.

The downside is that I now feel like I’m sitting on the stage instead of in front of it. I’m finding that dialing the phono-stage back and forth helps with that, as does dialing around the BME Sonic maximizer (don’t laugh: they are analog, and they work), so I think that will eventually resolve itself.
unreceivedogma

Showing 4 responses by hshifi

hshifi
572 posts
 
Hello,
I have posted about the CR1 before. It really can help with several of these problems that occur when blending a sub. I haven’t even used the JL Audio room correction because the CR1 works so well. Maybe I didn’t need the F series. I could have gone with the E112s and saved serious money. I do have to say the F series is so good it keeps up with my main speakers so easily. The other cool thing is the XLR and RCA are separate systems so the next thing is hooking up the RELs with the RCA connections. 
hshifi
572 posts
 
Hello,
I have two of my subs as Mijostyn suggested but put 1/3 to a half behind each of the front speakers. Another friend who has the JL Audio F212 did the same thing. I have two F110 subs. I know it is expensive but the JL Audio CR1 crossover is amazing. Think about it you get to crossover the front speakers and the subs to work together as one system. It is $3k and you need it to go between your preamp and amp. If you have separates then try this CR1 out. If you don’t JL Audio recommend setting the Sub crossover at 60 hz. This is a great blending point to get a more flat response. With the CR1 crossover I have the crossover set to 70 hz even though my main speakers go down to 25hz. My friends Revel Salon 2s go down even further and he has the same setting. You cannot believe how good your speakers sound when you remove the heavy lifting. If you are in the Chicagoland area this store lets you try before you buy. https://holmaudio.com
Luckily JL Audio had the CR1s in stock so it only took a week or so to get one. This crossover works with RCA and XLR and has a HT bypass. Buy once cry once. They also carry the new KEF subs that play down to 11hz but I also have 2 RELs to round out the room. 
hshifi
572 posts
 
Hello,
if you have Maggie’s and running separates. The CR1 is a must even if you are running a crossover on them. They should be crossed over at 80hz at -24 db. You can then crank them without distortion or damage. I really want a pair of LCR to play with. Waiting a year for speakers is a long time. 
hshifi
572 posts
 
Hello, 
My two REL subs are down firing as well. I had initially put them behind the two front speakers tucked in just behind the speaker. This created a really great bloom or sound stage. The reason I upgraded was because I wanted front firing and a little deeper range. The REL T9s are so good I kept them. Plus the RELs have three different ways to input so it has a separate LFE for HT. The new REL T9is are front firing with a passive down firing. REL probably thought the front firing was a better approach for music. Either way I will be testing putting a sub right behind the listening area. 
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