Strain gauge vs Zyx 4D/Atmos

Hi Raul,

I must point out that the Win Labs never produced a flat frequency response-- please have a look at some magazine test reports.

I own(ed) the Panasonic, and in the Jeff Rowland strain gauge preamp for it, Jeff applied a very mild amount of mid-band EQ to make the output 'flat'. And it was. I owned the stock cartridge, but my favorite was the boron cantilever version with a vandenHul stylus.

And then there is the Soundsmith Strain Gauge-- it also employs a touch of midband EQ, and definitely measures flat in my experience.

Raul, can you please show us what information or test that you found to show this 2dB frequency-response irregularity please?

Everyone should know that the frequency response of any cartridge depends on the brand of test record used-- CBS, and JVC being the most common. There is quite a difference in their highs. Have a look at USA magazine tests from the 1970's to see the difference, as some publications used both test records.

Obviously both CBS's and JVC's top engineers believe they each produce a reference-standard test LP. Yet this means only that there is no ABSOLUTE standard for which to MEASURE any cartridges using a test LP.

However, there is a way to measure the response of a test disc itself without playing it, by looking at how each modulated groove reflects white light, as the sine-wave signal is slowly swept from 20 to 20k Hz. This is pictured and described in my 1978 copy of the Audio Cyclopedia. I do not remember the mathematics involved, but this was a very useful and accurate technique according to that text.

Of course, it helps that Peter at Soundsmith has his own disc cutting machine. I know he has created his own test records containing impulses and other test-signals not available on commercial test discs.

And why would an already-renowned cartridge designer create his flagship cartridge with such a frequency-response error, one which anyone would discover? Makes no sense.

Best regards,
Roy Johnson
Green Mountain Audio

Raul,

I appreciate your concern. That magazine test gave no scale at all to their Figure 4. Also, on their page four, their author states, "We can now state, with an excellent accuracy level, that the natural frequency response curve of the SOUNDSMITH cartridge is equal to the RIAA curve,"

I think it will help if I share some facts that make more sense of this whole issue:

-- Top-line cartridges producing a +/- 1dB deviation between 50 and 12kHz are not uncommon (note how few manufacturers even publish response curves anymore).

-- Measurements below 50Hz change with a turntable's construction and its tonearm's effective mass.

-- Measurements above 12kHz depend on the test disc chosen. Which test LP is accurate? How about none.

-- 50 to 12kHz is exactly the range in which Stanton 'calibrated' their 681EEE. So did Empire and Pickering as I recall.

-- A cartridge claiming +/- 0.5 dB variation cannot be verified nor duplicated outside the factory because of the different turntable, tonearm, headshell, platter mat, cables, cartridge alignment, and test record employed.

-- These test records use steady sine waves, which indicate little about the dynamic response of the cartridge and nothing about phase accuracy- both far more important in my and many other's professional opinions. Example, how many times do we comment on the "lighter sound" of certain phono cartridges which we know to 'measure flat'? Heck, they even come with a graph.

In summary, all of the above certainly shows simple measurements/tests are at best only a guide, especially when the test signals do not simulate much about music. Furthermore, we lack the ability to reproduce any +/-0.5dB variation claimed.

Finally, in my experience also as a transducer-design specialist, a smooth +/- 1dB variation in response from 50Hz to 12kHz is never the reason someone "doesn't like the sound". That sound is not being enjoyed for many other reasons-- not from that cartridge having a +/- 1dB spec in that range instead of +/- 0.5dB.

By the way, I don't know which commercial music-LP could be chosen for someone to say "I can hear this phono cartridge has a perfectly flat frequency response."

If you did not like the Soundsmith Strain Gauge, either it was not well-setup or its sound was just not your cup of tea, as Peter wrote does happen. What you heard cannot be laid at the feet of a +/-1dB response in my professional experience.

As a side note, I hope we all can agree that passing the 1812 LP's torture track is no indication of a cartridge's musicality.

Best regards,
Roy

Raul,

Please learn from the facts I and others give you. When we ask questions of you, just try to answer them, as that is what you would wish from us of course.

I will summarize one last time: We may desire better than +/-1dB from 20-20k, but this is not attainable for the FACTS I posted above, which you have ignored. Your loss.

I thought you had posted elsewhere about not liking the SS strain gauge sound. If not, I apologize but I will stand by my altered statement:
"If SOMEONE did not like the Soundsmith Strain Gauge, either it was not well-setup or its sound was just not HIS cup of tea, as Peter wrote does happen. What ANYONE would have heard cannot be laid at the feet of a +/-1dB response in my professional experience."
Does anyone disagree with my last sentence here? If so, then please explain why.


Another fact for everyone:
There are many studies showing we are far less sensitive to changes in loudness (amplitude variations/frequency-response flatness) than to shifts in phase (altering the timbre of thenotes) and changes via other modulations.

One more fact:
One peer-reviewed AES paper shows how the math proves that any non-linear system (including the ear) is MOST sensitive to changes in what is called the waveform envelope. It is a paper on LINEAR Distortion by the way.

Small frequency-response variations affect the waveform envelope only a very, very little. This can be proved mathematically. Things which do greatly change the shape of a waveform envelope include:
Dynamic defects such as undershoot or ringing.
Phase shifts between when the lows emerged versus the highs.
Resonances.
None of those can be measured via a simple frequency response test.

Raul, you say above
"musicality?, where I heard that " term "? oh yes, an audiophile term that means colored/distorted performer aways from accuracy/neutrality. I don't use that term any more for very good reasons."

I always thought the term musicality was about hearing and FEELING the music. Certainly you physically and emotionally respond to music, yes? Making you want to move, to dance, smile, to cry... Well, those are some of the things I meant by musicality. And I would add the ability to hear and feel whatever groove the band settles into, the sway and richness of the play between melody and harmonies...

You wrote above:
"Yes, the Telarc 1812 could tell us several things, between others if the cartridge always stay in full touch with the grooves ( at microscopic level. ). A cartridge that pass this music recording normally has low very low tracking distortion that the ones that did not..."

Have you any proof of that last statement at all, Raul? There is none. You are wrong, and one must study the math and physics involved to know why.

Let me say it this way: It is a large-swing groove. If a stylus can track the wide-swinging groove, then that is a measure of only how far it can swing- exactly like how far a car's suspension can extend when airborne like a dune buggy. No difference at all.

That means we still do not know from that extreme extension how it will do on short-radius turns taken very quickly, like an unpredictable road course, which of course is music.

" and lower tracking distortions means IMHO more MUSIC and less colorations. It is a lot better to have a cartridge that always is in the groove that other cartridge that are " jumping " ( again: microscopic level. ) in between because poor tracking habilities..."

Raul, the Telarc 1812 LP has a very large, quite visible groove when the cannons fire, yes?
That means it is a MACROscopic test only, not a microscopic test. It cannot reveal anything of a cartridge's ability to reveal the nuances of a performance.

This cannot be argued when one understands both the math and physics involved in reproducing that Telarc cannon waveform. Doesn't mean you are stupid, but as you have said elsewhere several times, only that you are "ignorant" of the facts, which is fine-- they are not your specialty. Therefore, take the opportunity to learn from those with training- such as myself and Peter. Dover made some good points as well, here, along with Dougdeacon.

Best regards and good luck!
Roy

Knowing the sounds of several LPs is a very useful tool, and we all believe what you hear is what we would also hear in your home. We know you are a good listener and very careful in your setup and testing methodologies. This takes a lot of work and dedication.

However, when you do not consider facts, you will never understand WHY you are hearing what you do.

Again, best of luck.
Roy