Stereophile review of Escalante Fremont

Seems our international respectable Stereophile magazine has a lot of degradation in their quality

If the measurements are completely wrong (incorrectly and incompetently made) then I agree...but where is the evidence that Stereophile measurements are that bad. (Spikes and burn-in are irrelevant for the kind of obvious problems we see on the plots, which are among the worst I have ever seen published by Stereophile but I recall even the Maxx2 had some slightly weird stuff going on - but nothing like this - perhaps there is something in the air in Provo in the stratospheric high end...sniff sniff?)

The “brightness” of the Watt comes from its tweeter's dome break-up that is too close to the audioband. It is not brightness, it is simply distortion. Some, may find it exciting.

Almost all extremely rigid light weight drivers seem to run into resonance problems (high Q) - it is physics after all - and even when the problems are supposed to be "out of band" they often appear to affect "in band" response, especially at modestly elevated SPL levels...just my two cents....a cone that does not internally damp itself is akin to a "bell". The "bell" acts like an instrument in that the way it affects the sound can be quite unrelated to the music and therefore a more noticeable form of distortion. Soft damped cones have other distortion breakup mechanisms and they are much heavier material and require more expensive drive motors but they they have a big advantage in that they tend to damp unwanted distortion that is unrelated to the music.

I can't think of an easy way to explain it except that TIM distortion is much worse than Harmonic distortion and "ringing" drivers tend to produce TIM-like distortion.....much more audible....two cents, as usual.

I am questioning that anyone has heard it on the W/P8.

The WP8 uses technologies from the MAXX - my understanding is that Wilson has improved on the problem of "grain" or "etched" sound from Titanium drivers (to me the need for "improvement" is admission that Focal had resonance problems with these drivers).

I don't have enough experience with WP8's to know which music or tracks may show it up best. FWIW - silk domes have issues too...just different issues...they tend to break up and roll-off early (albeit in a fairly benign manner). Personally I don't mind this lack of linearity and I favor the smoothness that they give to sound. So you pick your poison - nothing is perfect - silk domes with lower distortion but poor bandwidth or metal with amazing bandwidth but poor internal damping...neither is better than the other - but assuredly "rigid" metal rings whilst soft domes break up!!

Nil & Jkalman - If you like a fuller souding drum recording (rock style) that will make your Watt Puppies/DAL's punch you in the stomach on the kick then try George Benson "On Broadway (live)" from Weekend in LA......probably the best recording of live drums that i have ever heard - no compression on this recording - so you can crank it and the sky is the limit!!!

What about Beryllium? What sacrifice is made with that material?

Beryllium was used in the Yamaha NS1000 - so proof that these designs can sound extremely good. The success of the Wilsons and JMLabs are also proof that they work extremely well (and B&W's diamond tweeter to add to the list) - I think they made the Yamaha's for 20 years or more. However, there is still a trade off - rigid piston (but downside is resonance) versus damped but flexible (downside is early breakup early beaming - limited bandwidth). At the high end BOTH can sound great. At the low end - a silk dome usually wins hand down. Some people can hear the difference on strings - some people can't - it is not always a fair comparison because even the frequency response behavior is different. It is a very complex subject because even ultra thin and light beryllium can have flexural problems depending on the voice coil to cone ratio - making it less than an ideal rigid piston....so shape is a big factor too.

Do WP, JMLabs with metal tweeters sound great - YOU BET THEY DO!

Can you hear imperfections in any speaker - yes - more or less there are no perfect ones....just trade offs.

this thread was on fremont's or I am wrong?

LOL - quite right.

JK,

I will check that Clapton unplugged song tonight first on my speakers ( which tend to be polite or rolled off in the highs - because they are silk dome tweets ) and then on my trusty AKG 240's (much more linear). Most ot the important cymbals stuff is around 12 Khz but there may be some "air" higher up. Bear in mind I can't hear above 15.5 Khz anyway - those days are long gone with age - so if I report that it sounds muted then I am not sure if that means much!

As for what might cause it to sound muted - I have no idea - in general I would think that a silk dome should almost always sound muted or "polite" relative to a metal one. Generally a more "etched" or exciting sound is the way I describe how light weight cones tend to sound but this is a generalization.

JKalman,

I checked out Signe "Eric Clapton" Unplugged (first track on CD).

I found almost no difference between AKG 240 headphones and my speakers...apart from the obvious that the sound was in my head with the headphones. I guess it does not mean much except that I obviously chose both for the sound is what a like and I guess I am consistent in my preferences..

Conclusion - I hear very little if any cymbals at all in this track. For me I hear high hat closed throughout (with the odd brief hit part open - for accent). I hear a wood block and I hear a triangle...but that is it for percussion.

No crash - certainly nothing bigger than 5 or 8 inch is being hit...a little ride at the beginning.

So in answer to your question - I think you will find the WP 8 will simply confirm what you are hearing with the Salons (mostly muted or closed hi-hat) when you swap them this weekend!!

Jkalman,

If you want nicely recorded drums...try particularly DoctorFunk "Can't fight the funk" or to a lesser extent ToP "Oakland Zone" or Strokeland Superband "Jump on the Millenium" - I forget which ones were arranged by Chester Thompson (legendary drummer) but as you can imagine with David Garibaldi on drums they want you to hear every sublime detail...and you CAN!!!

Nilthepill and Jkalman - cool - let me know if you like this sound - I know of more albums with drums that are recorded this way. It is quite different from the way most rock drums are recorded (heavy plodding - kick and toms). Oakland Zone is a tad overcompressed by Vlado Meller - certainly more than I like - but it still sounds great! In the same genre you have Strokeland's "Bumped up to First Class", which was mastered by Gavin Lurssen - previously of Mastering Lab fame - Doug Sax's (Sheffield Labs) protege.