Stereophile review of Escalante Fremont
Unfortunately, Dhaan above is correct about the WP and the hot Focal tweeter -- the breakup resonance indeed causes distortion throughout the presence region, and this is plainly audible in the original Focal (JM Labs) Utopias and the Wilsons. I don't agree if you are referring to the W/P8 tweeter. I even ran some tests and eliminated it as the cause of issues Dhaan said he had heard with soprano and violin (he said any soprano and violin material would reveal it). He won't give me any specific recordings to test, so I can't figure out specifically what was causing the issues he was hearing. The break up mode should be below adult hearing threshold unless you are a pre-pre-teen. If you want to give me some music you heard the problem on, as well as specific times and locations on the albums, I'll be glad to figure out what you were hearing. If it was tweeter break-up, which I doubt because of the high frequency location of the break-up mode, I'll be glad to confirm it or figure out what it is. I also have the ability to test it on three decent speakers (as I did previously with only two speakers). I'm not sure about the W/P7 if that is what you are referring to... The W/P7 and W/P8 use different tweeters... |
BTW, rachel, it isn't so much the Watt Puppies as it is the room itself. I currently have Revel Salon2s in the room and they have bass issues in the same areas (and then some extra in others!). The W/P8 had a few dB extra in the 60-80Hz extra but that was it in comparison. I posted overlays in my System profile if you want to see the measurements. ;) |
Raquel, You can read a play by play on my AVS HT thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748097&page=1&pp=30 I will post a synopsis eventually on these fora as well. The titanium drivers seem to be sounding better hour by hour. I gather they have a long break-in time also, considering how stiff a material they are, correct? When I first started playing them, the mid-range localization was fuzzy and incoherent. It has been sharpening up over the last 30+ hours though. The Salon2s appear to be as stubborn as the W/P8s in terms of room placement. They both have different needs, and unfortunately, the Salon2s so far need to be too close to my recessed HT screen! I don't find any issue with how the W/P8 handles strings. They sound natural and real to me. If you look at the frequency response comparisons you will see that the W/P8 is flatter when both speakers are in the same spot in the room. I had to move the Revels further into the room to get the 200-300Hz bump (also affecting the 100-200Hz bump) flatter, but it still isn't as low as the W/P8 bump in that region. Consequently, on the Salon2 low frequency voices are a little chestier and the lower frequency strings on some instruments are a little ripe. The Salon2 includes a boundary compression knob (which basically rolls off the lower frequencies below a certain point, though not between 200-300Hz unfortunately), which has been useful so far. This has added greater bass definition and extension than I was getting on the W/P8, which had a big kick drum sound but fell off quick below 40Hz. The kick drum was a little too much for me without PEQ. The Salon2 tweeter is still exhibiting sibilance, which I hope will fade more as it breaks in (this is even with the treble control set to -1). It is too early to come to any real conclusions. So far I have had much more of those breathtakingly "lifelike" experiences with the music on the W/P8s, but I'm hoping that the break-in time and continued experimentation with speaker positioning will change that and even the scale more. I'm a big fan of technology... It is too bad this God forsaken hobby is always one compromise or another. |
Shadorne, No one is questioning that the problem can exist. I am questioning that anyone has heard it on the W/P8. If you have heard it on the W/P8, please provide the material you heard it with (album, song and time). Also, make sure to list the amp that was used as well, because audible transient intermodulation distortion (TIM) is sometimes caused by amplifiers. It isn't a lot to ask for people who claim to have heard something to give some practical evidence that can be validated by other people who are using the speaker in question. The hearsay in this hobby gets old quick. Having some audible proof would also help me to decide on which speaker to keep. I don't want to be using a speaker that might be ringing or exhibiting "grunge" from ringing occasionally, but so far I haven't run into it in my listening experiences. I don't feel like it is a lot to ask. In fact, I really wish someone would help me out with this... I've thought of possible solutions to my Salon2 HT positioning dilemma, but it would require expensive custom built sliding stands that could slide to a position beside the screen for HT, and then out to the best listening position when being used for music. So having the proof I'm asking for would be quite meaningful in my current situation. |
Dhaan, I didn't like the Mini at HE2007... To be fair, the room was completely untreated, which is in and of itself sort of silly. A speaker company should be at least familiar enough with the acoustics of sound in a room to add a curtain and/or some first order reflection point diffusion and/or absorption. I am very interested in hearing them in my well treated listening room. IMO, there is a point of diminishing returns where the technology isn't offering anything greater sound-wise (to the human ear which has sever limitations), but certainly is technologically attractive (though likewise more expensive as well). However, I do think in my particular situation, I may benefit best from monitors since my shared multiple room dimensions are causing so many low frequency response humps. I am also a fan of technology, specifically nano-technology (I'm in venture projects of that sort). I also appreciate a nicely built cabinet. |
Shadorne, You know the cymbal hits on the Clapton unplugged album first song? What do you think would cause them to be unresolved completely on a Beryllium tweeter? Could it mean more break-in time is needed, or us that part if the nature of this particular implementation? Or, perhaps it is being muted more than I remember... |
As for what might cause it to sound muted - I have no idea - in general I would think that a silk dome should almost always sound muted or "polite" relative to a metal one. Generally a more "etched" or exciting sound is the way I describe how light weight cones tend to sound but this is a generalization. I think the drummer might be holding the cymbal (which is what I meant by muting it). Usually I hear that effect mostly in the decay of the cymbal hit, but it seems like the attack isn't all there, or something in the attack seems off. I don't remember having that issue on the W/P8, and I won't have anyone around until this Saturday to switch the two again. I guess I could play them on my studio monitors, since they use a different material tweeter as well (Duh! I should have thought of that earlier...) Thanks. |
