I agree Dkarmeli, they are amazing speakers. I would love to own a refurbished pair of TSW Apogee Diva Ultimates one day if I buy a new home & set up a dedicated listening room. The Diva Ultimates require careful setup & a treated listening room to achieve their full potential, plus of course lots of clean power. In my current room, my sealed box Magico S5's work better. |
Yeah i've read the TSW Duetta Signature Ultimates are more room friendly & give the Diva Ultimates a good run for their money (especially in the bass). Congrats on your Sigs Ptm! |
Can anyone who has experience with Apogee's and Infinity IRS speakers describe how refurbed Diva's stand up against the Infinity IRS-Gamma, Beta and/or IRS-V? Cheers. |
Brian, that's cool. I had a look at your system list. You're obviously a long-time audiophile and enthusiast. Also nice rig, especially those mighty Diva's! They do like plenty of power and either tubes, or tube-like amps & you've ticked both boxes. Good stuff! |
Lloyd, another speaker I didn't mention (mainly due to its amp-killing reputation :o) is the 1 ohm Apogee Scintilla. But you need a lot of iron to drive those gorillas! :)
Given an adequate size listening room, the Genesis 1.1's would be my dream speakers, however my current listening room and budget prohibit such flights of fancy. But perhaps in 6-7 years or so I might be in a position to move house & find a good 2nd hand pair within my price range. With Vitus gear upstream, that would be a good system to retire with.. |
Lloyd, those are some awesome systems you heard & amongst the best in the world. Though personally if cost was no object and I wanted to go all-out on tri-amping the Arrakis, i'd run 3 Vitus MP-S201's connected to a Vitus MP-L201 linestage.
Yeah my plan is if I buy a piece of land in future, i'll get an architect-designed house built to my specs with a dedicated listening room custom-sized to the ideal dimensions for the G1.1's, even though they may come along later. I would still choose the G1.1's over the Arrakis (even if I could afford the latter) for sentimental reasons due to how the Infinity IRS-V's blew me away. Also with the G1.1's bass amps, you only need a high current stereo amp to drive the midrange panels which obviously saves big bucks.
From my experience, the IRS-V and later G1.1/1.2 line arrays are the only speakers capable of recreating a life-like image and concert level dynamics. They are also more room friendly than normal box speakers due to their figure 8 radiation pattern. I have to smile though as i'm far from slumming it with my Magico S5's! |
The S5's and Constellation is a good match up, though the best synergy Alon found with the Magico S series was with Vitus Signature and Masterpiece series amps as used at CES. VA & Magico have uncanny synergy.
Which Gryphon amp do you run Lloyd? I'm currently using a Vitus SIA-025 integrated which is a peach. Btw, you should post a Virtual system! I'm planning on posting mine in the next 2 months. |
Dasign, Thanks for your feedback on the DS vs Diva. It's great to hear that first hand experience. If I move into a bigger house one day & have some spare cash, it would be fun to set up a good size treated listening room & set up a pair of TSW Diva Ultimates fed by a Vitus SS-102/SL-102 combo. That is if Magico don't release a tasty model to replace the S5's in 5-7 years! |
Lloyd, congrats, you have a unique and super nice system. I think i've seen it before on a forum possibly. The Colosseum is a lovely sounding amp apparently, as is the Zanden components, and you have the full stack! Roysen sold a 4 box set earlier this year on the 'Gon. I would be interested to see how the new/revised Vitus SCD-025 with DSD would compare to the full Zanden stack when it is released next month? That will most likely be my next cd player.
I agree excellent isolation, attention to your AC power & grounding are very important. I use extensive Stillpoints Ultra 5's, Ultra Bases, Ultra LPI's & a few Ultra Mini's in my system. And on the AC power side, I use a Furutech GTX-D (G) wpo, Gigawatt PC-3 SE Evo conditioner & Jorma Prime pc's. The Gigawatt provides 3 independent filtering branches optimized for digital, analogue and high current applications & also provides a true equipotential grounding. not virtual. |
@Dasign, congrats on your restored Duetta Sigs! Now that they've had a full resto incl: Graz ribbons, how would you rate your Sigs up against the TSW Diva Ultimates? Am with you on the Estate instructions! |
@Lissnr, i'm still following an upgrade path to finish my current system, though it's all pretty well mapped out & i'm really content. As my Audio Engineer told me "It's hard to imagine any audiophile not being happy with a system of that caliber".
As nice as tube amps are, I don't find them practical with my combined 2 channel audio & home theater needs, but I still want a warm, tube-like sound. Vitus ticks every box such that if I change systems in the future, i'd more than likely move up the Vitus line :) It's hard to believe there is not a tube in that gear.
Sorry I didn't mean to diss TRL gear. My last 2 cd players & line stage have been tubed, so I appreciate what tubes do. But i've kind of been there and done that with tubes. |
Thanks for your kind words Lloyd. I am not familiar with the Tripoint Troy Signature. It is certainly an expensive piece of kit, though it seems to perform a similar function to the PC-3 SE Evo. Personally I don't have the space for so many boxes, so the Gigawatt was an excellent solution for my system.
My previous power 'conditioner'/board was an Acoustic Revive RTP-6 Ultimate. The RTP-6 is fast and detailed, but the Gigawatt was just better across the board. My first impressions were; smoother sound (more liquid), blacker background, greater inner detail, more detail in general & improved dynamics. There was also a bit more body and warmth. My Dealer advised it needs 100hrs to run in, so the sound should continue to improve and open up.
I also had a chance to compare the Evo to the PurePower 3000+ Power Re-Generator with the Battery Back Up. The PP+ has a bit more dynamic drive than the Evo being a regenerator, but Gigawatt has a bit better focus and transparency and a blacker background which reveals more inner details and ambience in the recording. A couple more things to mention about the PC-3 SE Evo. It has MUCH better engineering and build quality than the PP+. Also, Gigawatt are the only manufacturer of conditioners or regens to my knowledge whose products are subject to an Insurance policy that covers damage to connected equipment up to 250,000EUR. (Disclosure: I have no connection to Gigawatt, just a happy customer).
Re: the Zanden stack, i've kind of been there, done that with tubed cd players. I previously owned a modded/re-tubed Ayon CD-5s, and my current player is an Aesthetix Romulus. I'm very happy steering toward the Vitus for synergy. It also fits nicely with my goal to simplify my system and reduce my box count. |
@Brian, sorry for the late reply as i've been on a break. Thanks for sharing your experience with your modded Divas. What is most impressive is, in your system and room they eclipsed even the awesome Magico Q7's for musical realism. Btw, what tube amps & front end are you running? |
Lissnr, thanks for your feedback about your journey through planar & ESL speakers. In particular your feedback on the TSW Duette Signature & Diva Ultimate. As i'm familiar with the classic Infinity speakers and previously owned a pair of Renaissance 90's, i'd be interested to know if you've heard either the IRS Sigma, Epsilon, Gamma or IRS-V? And if so, how do you rate them against the Apogees?
I had a look at your system thread. I'm intrigued by the TRL amps, but there are no professional reviews and I could find only one old for sale ad for a pair of GT200's and the guy wanted $3200CAD. In contrast, the CJ Art mono's are extensively reviewed and maintain high resale value. I wonder how the Vitus SIA-025 would stack up against your TRL amps which add up to a similar retail price?
I feel ac power, cables, isolation and front end are as important in the musical chain as any other component, hence why I invest a lot in those areas. I try not to lose sight of the fact when you listen to music you are listening to a "system" which is the sum total of all the components, cables, front end, ac power, isolation & speakers. And of course how good or bad the speakers couple with the room. |
Sorry to hear about the bad luck you had with the Stages Dave. Don't worry, i've had a pair of lemons and had to dump them cheaply. It can be very frustrating. From all that i've read, the original Duette Signatures, Diva & Full Range were quite a bit better than the Stage, and the TSW restored versions are on another level again. I know Rich and Graz have done a lot of testing to address known issues/weaknesses with different models and been very successful. I'd love to hear a pair of Diva Ultimates, but i'm on the wrong continent for starters. It's academic in my case as I don't have the room to accommodate those panels.
Btw, if we're talking great value vintage speakers, its hard to go past the classic Infinity speakers such as the IRS-Sigma, Gamma & Beta. |
Dave, I had a look at your system. You're right, the JBL's are a bit like a young Shiraz, big bold and full of character. You've got a simple, but fun system. I'm also trying to reduce my box count. Less is more as they say. Congrats! |
@Lissnr, yeah the TSW Apogee thread is a good read. I agree, for super speakers like refurbed Diva's or Infinity IRS-V's, you're best to build a dedicated listening room of ideal dimensions optimized for dipoles. Also, both the above speakers like plenty of power. And as much as I love my Vitus SIA-025, i'd definitely be looking to upgrade to something like the Vitus SS-102/SL-102 amps to drive those speakers.
From what you described, the TRL amps offer great sound for the money which is what you want. I would only buy niche gear like that 2nd hand because they're not an established company and would likely have poorer resale value. For that reason if I had more room & wanted a tube setup, i'd go for 2nd hand CJ Gat/Art amps.
You mean fortunately you haven't heard the Vitu$ amp$!! Thanks for kind words. |
Dave, be sure to update your system thread when you upgrade your amps! I agree with your philosophy of reducing your box count, having a simple system & focusing on quality and function. Cheers. |
