Step Up Transformer

dover, your " dead silence " only means that you never took the FR measurement in the ALtec transformers. Nothing wrong with that.

 

R.

Dear @dover  : " Much more important than loading in my view is getting the gain structure right so you have the optimum voltage going into the phono.  "

I agree with that statement. My Denon AU-1000 hast a gain ratio 1:11.5 and I used with every kind of LOMC characteristics and works just fine.

Yes, a SUT has its own " colorations " because noting is perfect but the critical issue , other that its gain,  belongs to its really limited frequency range at both frequency ends against an active high gain stage. This objective characteristic speaks by it self of the real quality level in the SUT design. The today manufactures ( not all like Audio Tecchnica ) I think know that critical issue and normally they posted in their site NOTHING about and only the gain ratios but there is a way more critical issue and that's that the customers truly do not cares about and this is a true problem that goes in favor of the SUT manufacturers. I could  think that maybe you already measured the Altec 4629 FR .

 

R.

Dear @edgewear  : " If more people would mention the same combinations as being excellent, this could create some sort of experience based consensus about the ’best’ possible combinations as interacting systems, instead of the generally useless opinions about ’best’ components in isolation. Such a list might be useful to people who need help with their purchase decisions.  "

 

That could be fine but there are a lot of " things " around that scenario that those experiences are really good for only the gentleman that posted and owns that room system.

Things are thaT SAME COMBINATIONS WITH DIFFERENT SPEAKERS OR AMPLIFIERS OR CABLES OR ...OR....perform different too and depends too of the LP choosed tracks and obviously those experienced " ears " or know how of MUSIC level.

 

Look in this thread the OP owns the PS Audio Stellar phono stage and even that it's looking for a SUT ( no sense to me but I respect his " needs " )..Fremer was impresed for the Stellar unit and in his review he posted statements almost imposible to imagine for a so low price phono stage:

 

 " The midrange on this phono preamp is as open, uncongested, transparent, and revealing as that of any phono preamp I've heard at any price.

How's that for a "pull quote"? But it's true, not hyperbole, and I stand by it. In the midrange department, the Stellar Phono is the darTZeel of phono preamplifiers. Considering the price differential, that's saying a lot!  "

 

"" Because of its openness, transparency, and freedom from midband congestion, the Stellar did tell me some things I didn't already know, on many recordings. Small, subtle-though-significant things that surprised me. ""

 

""" 

At RMAF, I played the test pressing of the first movement of the upcoming Bruckner Symphony No.7 recording with Bernard Haitink conducting the Berlin Philharmonic, and the crowd sat through the entire movement, clearly enthralled (despite the noise outside the room) by the recording's insane transparency, three-dimensionality, textural delicacy, and airiness. The string sound is to die for, and the Stellar captured and unleashed all of it.

At home, using the Ortofon Anna Diamond cartridge on the SAT arm, the result was sensational  """

 

"""" I could cite a half-dozen more references to jazz, rock, chamber, and symphonic music I listened to through the Stellar Phono over the weeks I had it in the system, using it with the Continuum Caliburn turntable/SAT CF1-09 tonearm, the HW-40 turntable/Fatboy tonearm, and, at the very end, the Air Force One Premium/Graham Elite combo—all far beyond the Stellar's pay grade. But, rather than go through that list, I'll just reiterate and certify as true what Myers said in his manual note: "(The Stellar is) innately transparent and present(s) the music with a correct display of tonal balance." """   and he used too the Lyra Atlas SL.

 

Even all those and very good Atkinson unit measurements this thread is about SUT  ! ! 

 

R.

 

 

Dear @lewm  : " will probably have wide bandwidth and low distortion. "

I'm sorry but from where came that statement?  That manufacturer never posted both specifications nowhere or exist measured information about.. 

 

R.

 

@edgewear  : The Moon is better than hat you could imagine. Anyway, unfortunatelly as me no one else already listen all the phonolinepreamps out there and the " best " out there are not at 25K but over 35K as the Boulder 1110 that I never had the opportunity to listen.

The 1010 is not in that league and I do not want to speak about price but about quality levels design that at the end is what makes the differences. My unit never was on that price levels and never will does but the issue is that is a true challenge for any of the $$$$$ units out there and is a unit where you can discern for sure if any of your SUTs performs as good as the active unit, I'm saying and not posted that the SUT/MM combination performs /" even " my 3180 ( the new unit will be the 3200 ) but a different approach NO I'm talking that the active unit is superior to a SUT connected to a dedicated MM stage in the 3180 and not just any SUT but the modified AU-1000. 

Perhaps what I intent is to say that for a SUT/MM stage combination could really performs at better quality level it needs that that active MM phono stage be a top class dedicated MM design. Normally the phono stages as in Boulder other units the low gain stage for the SUT is the same kind of design for the active high gain stage. I posted that that does not happens in  the 3180/3200 where each phono stage is dedicated to the cartridge needs and in our design that means different active gain input devices.

So maybe for what I posted I left the impression that only the $$$$$ units makes good quality design.

Btw, you are a Boulder oriented gentleman: did you listen the 1110?

 

@edgewear : Btw, you could be one of the future owners of the 3180 that will be custom made due that the owner can choose between unit with 2 MC independent stages or one MC stage and one MM stage. In the MC/MM configuration both independent stages are different at the input gain stage due that in the MM we don’t use bipolar devices as in the dedicated MC but a different active input device dedicated to MM. Any one could has the opportunity to to arrive at a little " different " new " enjoyment world " through the 3180.

 

Anyway, the main issue is to enjoy MUSIC for any one of us.

 

R.

Dear @edgewear  : I think that the " trouble " culd be that till today maybe you do not experienced listen sessions trhough an excellent designed phonolinepreamp like latest Dartzeel, FMA, CH, Moon and the like. No, Boulder is not in that league is good but not excellent, overall my unit belongs to that league. Till you live that experience you will follow thinking in the same way. No, it's not only about " numbers " but something that even a non-audiopile can dicern easily about and I already posted that I'm not against per sé to SUT's that I not only own but time to time have lisen sessions with , good sessions but the active high gain is superior and I have to say that with the AU-1000 not for a wide margin but superior.

 

R.

Dear @edgewear   : " but why do you think an active gain device wouldn’t add colorations of its own?  "

 

Where posted I that statement?, every device develops some kind of distortion level.A well matched pairs of bipolars is all what the cartridge signal looks at the very first stage in an active design. Its distortion levels are way low and the length/distance that that signal needs to " walk " is really low too. So, if that phono stage is a good design, the signal that goes to the inverse RIAA eq. is almost direct from there to the output. It's only common sense

 In the other side a SUT has a way limited whole frequency range . Any one in this thread knows what is the FR of that Sky 20?: I'm almost sure no one has it.

Today SUT's but one have short FR and nothing even approaching what was measured in my Denon AU-1000: 3hz to 305khz but a vintage FR goes down to 2hz !!!! the best ever and Technics goes from 3hz to 350khz.  The Sky's not even dreams with and I think that the Denon AU-340 that goes from 10hz-100khz is even better that what the OP is looking for.

 

Btw, the today wide band SUT ( silver wire ) is the intactaudio design.

 

R.

Dear @edgewear  : The issue is not about FR but what showed your Anna in those both FR tonearms that just said the FX truly was and is spot-on with.

The Anna is not only a " so so " tracker along those 16grs. on its weigth.

I owned the MAX 282 with all its 3 arm pipes and two but the J shapped 237 and I mounted there bad bad trackers to exceptionall trakers/ heavy ones and not so heavy and never had any single trouble with mistracking in any MM/MI/MC over 100 cartridges in cluding Ortofon but not the Anna. The gyroscopib MS tonearm bearing is really a beauty..

 

About the SUT issue it's not that I'm " against " it per sé and for several years I used SUT's , many to name it here including the best best SUT ever made exclusively to Denon by Murata : Denon AU-1000 that still I own and it's modified by me ( obviously not the transformers. ). Now a " few " years ago and even been owner of the AU-1000 a close friend of mine started and finished a " new " Phonolinepreamp that in those times outperformed in my system FM Acoustics.

We took around 2 years and a half to been finished and I still use in its version 3180, @lewm  own the 3160 version and other gentlemans the 3150.

Why took we the responsability to build that kind of unit?  easy: because no SUT/phono combination and top full SS active high gain units as the mentioned FMA truly even my way demanding analog targets till appeared the 3150. 

All versions came with two totally independent ( including power supply ) dual mono phono active high/low gain stages even time to time I use its MM stage along the AU-1000 and is enjoyable.

 

Btw, we are thinking to re-start that phonolinepreamp design maybe with 4-5 latest version including one for me. This is in the desk  because is not my business way of life and each unit time to build take a lot of time . We will see.

 

R.

Dear @edgewear  : It's no surprice the mistracking you experienced with the 64S and low compliance Anna where its resonance frequency is not aquated and out of the " ideal " frequency range when in the 64FX it's spot on at the middle. The 4400 is almost a unipivoted design with some trouble with its bearing damping oil ranges and with its lateral balance too and not good couple for the Anna and I don't know which pipe arm you used with the 237. Btw, I don't know if you still use the RX-1550.

 

" The dry and lean character simply vanishes with a good SUT. "

 

,Well knowing Boulder that's more or less how was recorded those or " that " LP, the Ortofon character and the SUT gave you not better quality level cartridge signal performance but only added the colorations you like it even if those colorations are only added distortions.

 

R.

 

 

Dear @lewm : I think that more and more Agon forum audiophiles ( 90% ) as in other internet audio forums people are fully oriented to what they like and nothing wrong with that .

The experimented audiophiles as edgewear or mulveling and many others targets are what I said here about and we can read and confirm that issue through the posts in this thread and in almost any other threads, even the OP just does not cares of what is recorded in those LP groove modulations and obviously not only him.

I think too that an issue is that today part of our hobby more than enjoy true MUSIC as is recorded or " near " live event: " we are looking for colorations, added colorations, in what we listen day by day.

 

The SUT is a pristine example as many other added links in our home system chain, I already posted: a SUT can’t improve any recorded LP vs an active high gain phono unit. Everything that we add to the cartridge signal during LP reproduction can’t improve in no single way the quality levels of what we listen with out those " adds ". So we like those added " colorations/distortions " and can be addictive. In the past I was " there " in that same " road " that is part of the fun even if is wrong road.

In my system I try to put at MINIMUM the steps where the analog/digital audio signal must pass through but these is me and what I learned about is that when we put at minimum those signal steps what we experienced through our room/system is reallu outstanding and just near the " best " we can be to MUSIC recordings or live event.

The MUSIC audio road is a learning ladder that we have to go up step by step and no I know I don’t finished yet.

 

Lewm and dear friends: don't you think that all those recording process steps till we receive the LP are not added enough distortion/coloration  to add other than the minimum necessary steps during the play process?

 

R.

Dear @fundsgon  :  Can you explain which are your targets to " introduce " a SUT+cables+input/output connectors and solder joints additionals im that PS Audio phono stage?  is it because you are a MUSIC lover or maybe just for fun?

In the past how many times did you listen an Ortofon Cadenza in an active high gain SS phono stages along SUT's? and know what are you looking for? what do you not like on that Stellar phono unit?

 

Thank's in advance,

R.

Dear @fundsgon  : I can't understand why you ask for a SUT when the Stellar is a great active high gain phono stage and the Cadenza needs no SUT with the STEllar and if you insist for the SUT you will only degrading the Cadenza sensitive cartridge signal.

 

A SUT can't improve the quality level performance of your Stellar, ONLY can and will does degrades that cartridge signal.

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.