I am using Hand Wound Cinemag 1254 Tranx' in my SUT.
At the time of purchase the leader of a Group Buy had made it known as a result of COVID and the manufacturer only running a very small production schedule, these 1254's are to be Hand Wound by the renowned Tranx designer at Cinemag.
A 1254 is quite similar to a Tranx selected by Bob's Devices.
My 1254 has superseded other owned SUT's, of which I retain one other model being the Hashimoto.
The 1254 makes itself known when used in my system, it is happy to get out of the chair and be seen, where as the Hashimoto is much more polite and remains seated.
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I use Ortofon Cart's, I have friends who also use Ortofon Cart's and between us, there is also use SUT's, Head Amp's, as well as the option to use a MC stage biult into a Phon'.
I and others I spend time with do not set limits on how a Signal from a Cart's is being transferred.
I don't focus too much on the Math, I don't get too much stimulus from number crunching. It is the Sound that is being presented and the variants of the sound (different flavours) that can be created that are maintaining an attraction that I find the most stimulating.
On this forum, I believe I once referred to a experience I had, where a demo was taking place with a Ortofon Cart' that was attached to a SME 3009. This set up was was met with posts where the description of the set up was not too well received and it was challenged as a concept.
'Nobody Died', "Get Over It". If a individual likes the idea of experiencing a SUT with a particular Model of Phonostage, then let that itch be scratched.
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@fundsgon As a person who really enjoys music, I get the bulk of my musical encounters from the Radio/CD used in my Vehicle.
To extend my enjoyment of music and fit into the usual practices within the home and share time in a room in the Company of loved family, who love to make time for musical encounters, much of the musical encounters is supplied through Alexia.
As an individual with a long term interest in audio and having a decent sized collection of Hard Media, I have across many years, put together a dedicated set of devices to enable a decent level of quality for the periods that are spent replaying the Hard Media music collection. All devices used above are merely Tools to enable a experience of a musical encounter. Each has the capability of creating a stimulation that is enjoyable, otherwise why keep revisiting/exposing oneself to the different experiences.
My advice is enjoy your musical encounters, your first attraction to music, as well as one that set you on the journey of discovering audio, was most likely discovered on what could be called a Low Fi Device. Enjoy the experiences of finding out how there are other methods to be used in your audio interest, for you to experience your Hard Media Music Collection.
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@edgewear Your Statement, "But in practice things might work out differently. In my system I have the possibility to choose between various SUT’s, voltage gain and current gain devices and some cartridges have a clear preference for the use of an SUT in the signal path. Others definitely do not, it all depends.
I realise this is pretty much a useless answer to the OP, were it not for the fact that in my experience Ortofon MC’s tend to have a liking for SUT’s."
I read this as the Cartridges referred to having a Clear preference for a SUT' as being more akin to my own experience.
I can use a Cart's with a few options on how to send the signal generated.
I don't rest with one option only, I know how I like a sonic that is produced, as well as knowing how the devices work with different genres of music and how the sonic produced can impact on my mood at the time.
On a Weekday evening the Hashimoto, has a sonic that can keep me in the chair quite docile.
On the Weekend during an afternoon, the Cinemag, will get Air Guitar / Drumming kicked off with almost a immediacy.
I also have a Built In MC Stage and it presents quite satisfactory, I am keen to use it when I want to have the other benefits it offers when worked with.
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It is a general consensus, that an Additional Pair of RCA Phono Connector Inputs are used, followed by quite a few metres of Copper Coil and Lead Outs, followed by RCA Connectors as Outputs and then an additional pair of Cables is to be used.
The same above stands for a Head Amp in use as well, but swap out the Copper Coil, for a circuit built with usually seen component types.
The suggestion is, and mostly presented as a subjective evaluation based on the idea, increased components in the signal path, deteriorates/adulterates the signal path, and the shortest signal path is working toward the ideal.
I have not seen any measured data, that clearly defines sound produced from a signal passing through a SUT or Head Amp' is an inferior Sound produced at the Speaker End.
Do keep in mind signal that is produced prior to passing through the Speakers Xover, is an electrical current. It is only when the electrical current/signal has travelled as far as the Speaker, is the time it becomes sound and is able to be evaluated by each individual. In most cases individuals do nit share identical attraction for the same produced sound. We are all unique and have sensitivities to how we are affected by sound.
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Putting the math to one side, it seems to myself, when a SUT is reported as being used/intended to be used, as a Standalone Device to amplify the Current/Signal produced in the Cart's Coils. The idea of using the SUT tranx's built into a Standalone Unit, receives much more discussion about Pro's/Con's or Preferred/Not Preferred, than the similar designed Tranx' types being a component used as a part on a circuit within a Phonostage to produce a MC Input.
I can't recollect seeing any commentary that makes a criticism of a Tranx' used as a component on a circuit within a Phonostage.
Does this not suggest?, that the Additional RCA Connectors and required additional Pair of Cables are the main focus of the 'anti's' when commenting on SUT Tranx's being used to amplify a current/signal.
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@edgewear I visit a few forums, as I do not limit the content of a discussion I have an interest in to one forum only.
It is good for myself, to see where others from another place and set of experiences are commenting on similar subjects that have got my interest.
I can assure you that every forum, that has a dedicated Analogue Section, with a regular contribution from time served experienced members, also has a selection of members who thoroughly enjoy and are advocates of the SUT to amplify a Cart's generated current/signal, especially selecting a SUT for producing THIER preferred Sonic and through experiences encountered are using devices with recognised traits, that are associated with the device of choice.
The Good News is that an individual with an interest in such a method, will find plenty to suggest, their inquisitiveness, will not be wasteful and something that is quite attractive and desired to be maintained can be realised as the outcome.
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@lewm Is it this description of a equation, that may be the impact that is detectable/audible/responsible for the SUT, when used to amplify the current/signal, having won over so any advocates for the device to be put into and kept in service?
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It is looking like the suggestion from one contributor and maybe indirectly others, for the action required to take a Step Forward that is noticeable and a betterment, to using a SUT, if the 'off the shelf' option is considered. Requires that to get the best of the experience without a SUT, monies are needed to be parted with, that can be up to a five figure sum.
The most expensive Commercial Product Phon' I have received a demo' off, is offered with a £10K retail price. This is a Phon' I have been in front of whilst in use on many occasions and it is a Phon' that has thoroughly impressed me. It is also a Phon' I am able to live without, as I have Phon's that are not of this Value, that offer a impression that is just as satisfying.
Bear in mind, both Phon's owned by myself, are very close in their base values to the £10K, when the electronics are being priced. I also believe the designs between the three Phon's are not too distant and there is a shared trait that can be discovered between the Phon's.
Five figure sums are not required to purchase a Phon' that can thoroughly impress.
a c involv
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If a search for an alternative SUT does become a interest.
The EAR 'The Head' SUT is one model worth looking into. These are quite rare, but do surface as a sale item occasionally.
A Member of m Local HiFi Group has one, it has been side by side demo'd to a variety of SUT's in a few different systems and has been the model that all attendees have been thoroughly impressed by and unanimously agreed to be something very special.
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The EAR ' The Head' SUT was made in a small quantity, which results in very small numbers of individuals that have experienced one in use. The idea they very rarely are seen as a used sale item suggests for most owners, these models are keepers.
Whether the SUT is kept for its sonic capabilities or the fact it is appreciating in value is one for the Jury to decide.
For myself, I have come to trust the assessments of my Local HiFi Group, especially with one member being a dealer in High End Audio and another a retired Hi End Audio Dealer, where each have /have had clients that are using six figure sum systems. I think their assessments are with a validity and ones I will not discount. The other members making known similar assessments only reinforce the overall assessment, of the impression 'The Head' has made.
I know a man who has no desire to part with his owned EAR 'The Head', they very much enjoy what it does, and have no doubts about what it does in comparison to a limited number of other SUT's, it has shared demo' time with.
As an alternative, the last one I had seen as a sale item, was with a £2000 asking price, which is a substantial appreciation in Value.
'The Head' is now a Legacy Item and because TDP is known to be very closely attached to this design, they will most likely appreciate further toward the heavens, where TDP is at rest.
A SUT that I have been demonstrated recently in another System and have put it on my shortlist of Home Demo's 'to be had' when the system is back in use, is a selection of models produced by Sculpture A. I am feeling very good about having discovered this design and it is one of the rare items, I get compelled to want to experience in the home. The individual who supplied these for the demo' I was attending, has made it known, by the time I am ready for a home trial, the Company will have brought further improved New Models to the Market. I look for ward to seeing if these can be brought along to.
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@dover stated "In terms of best, the problem is that there is no best, it so much depends on the cartridge/sut/phono combination."
This is one way to describe a overview based on experiences encountered.
It also is quite aligned to a how a Sales Person addresses a situation with a Customer. It is about Products and then the Best Product.
Another way to describe this, is that in many cases an individual has built a system that is accurately aligned to presenting in a manner that is aligned to their unique preferences for how a sonic is perceived.
If the individual is to add to their system other ancillaries that can impact on the signal produced, and hence, the sonic produced. There is no best, there is only the item that has proved most satisfactory to suit their needs.
Very Very rarely is it seen that a individual with a obvious passion for audio, has the same equipment as another sharing a similar passion. Never would an individual with this leaning toward audio, build a system solely based on another's preferences. There is always the likelihood ancillaries used by others are able to become a curiosity and something to be experienced.
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@fundsgon I have a what today would be classed as a obsolete technology that has been embedded in to recording, which is known as Q Sound.
Did it improve the Album, well no, did it enable a Recording Engineer plenty of scope to toy with the Stereo Soundstage and place some very unusual effects, well yes it did in spades.
I have Q Sound Recording that are my favourites of all owned recordings, not much can generate the experience Q Sound can. The Soundstage becomes huge, o is the Recording Engineer playing with the end user and creating the perception of a large spacious voluminous sound.
The enjoyment of audio is another avenue of entertainment, so why not make it entertaining beyond the normal methods encountered.
AI is capable and going to become even more capable because of the support it has generated.
What is certain is that both Q Sound enhancement and AI enhancement are not dependent on a SUT/Head Amp, Off Board Gain Module or Phon's costing £30ish K, to thoroughly enjoy what the recording is capable off.
Until next time, Enjoy your equipment.
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@fundsgon If that experience has captured you in Q Sound.
There is a Roger Water Live Album with Q Sound embedded. This is only available on CD, but has proved to be the most convincing of the 'being there' experience for Live Recordings at a Arena Venue I have listened too.
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